Why? Did I miss something or did I discuss something taboo without knowing it?
Anyway, point remains, in the current catalog or not, if you want a previously listed seperate tender - they are out there.
Sheldon
I guess someone does NOT want it discussed???!!!
I might of got too far off-topic. I have a feeling that it was probably somehow my fault.
well, we have to blame someone, and as you volunteered, we will gladly give you all the credit for the blame. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
ABC, I don't think you did anything wrong, they might not have liked me talking about pricing? Who knows?
Sheldon
Oh damn, What did I miss??? ??? ???
Bruce
People, all over the place, are falling on their sword. :o :o :o :o :o
Sheldon
About a month ago my thread was deleted. I am not sure why. How i found out that it was deleted was that I got an email that someone posted a response and when I wen to see it. it was deleted.
The topic was about a "Bachmann" product that has a sports team logo on it. This NY team is very well loved and hated.
Just like you I was like.. "what did I do?" I never got a response from a moderator or anyone. I like you would like to know if it was me or a post that drove the deleting of the post. I hope you find out why.
Robert
Just watch, next thing you know this thread will disappear.
Bruce-
What did you miss? What did you miss? Why, only the most interesting, captivating, informative and eloquently written thread I have ever seen on Bachmann or anywhere else. My condolences. Your modeling, or even your life, may never be the same.
Doneldon
tsk, tsk, tsk :o
I'll wager an apple, a chocolate bar, and my good name, that this too will be gone in oh, eight hours?
Dear GG,
About 8-1/2 lives used up so far...
Dear All,
About nine months or so ago the "New HO Announcements" thread (posted at the beginning of a major train or toy show) was deleted instead of unpinned.
I'm not sure my replies caused the deletion, but...
I had pointed out the problems with the new HO fitter track assortment, which wouldn't fit without significant cutting or gouging of the fitters or the adjacent full size track sections.
Board "anticipation" whining (Where's that new product you announced 2 years ago?) forced the "powers that be" to delay announcements of new items to closer to product delivery dates.
Now, the unintended consequences of that delay are that expensive molds are made before observant and experienced board members can point out "gitchas" in the design or concept.
Case in point: 26" and 28" radii HO curves are too close together to conform to NMRA track spacing recommendations. This causes overhang crashes on concentric curves. By the time they announced, the molds were already made...
Funny thing is, the previously released HO 33-1/4" and 35-1/2" radii curve pairs had the extra 1/4" spacing to avoid the overhang crashes...
I knew/know how to fix the fitters, but no one ever asked me.. We'll see what they come up with.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
And I still think that tenders with sound sold separately is a very good idea. You all ready make them, try it, you'll be glad you did. And think of all the money you'll make.
Quote from: pdlethbridge on April 24, 2010, 03:34:01 PM
And I still think that tenders with sound sold separately is a very good idea. You all ready make them, try it, you'll be glad you did. And think of all the money you'll make.
Oh no, here we go again, so much for this thread...
%Oh, so now it's my fault! ::) ::) ::) ::)
Dear PD,
I like the separate sale tender with sound idea, as (good sounding) sound is a desirable upgrade to any loco.
It's not that simple to implement, though. For instance, are you looking for DCC/sound, DC/sound, or both?
It should at least have 4 wheel, better yet, 8 wheel power pickup. I'm not sure how you would cover the differences in the engine-tender electrical connectors, though.
Articulateds have different chuff sounds than simples, and different locos have different sounding whistles, so it would have to be re-programmable to different sounds.
Swappable flash cards? Reprogrammable flash cards? Multiple sound sections on one card, toggle setting switches on board to choose the proper selection for your loco?
See, it gets complicated.
If it could be done cheaply, it could make money.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
They had tenders with sound for the 2-8-0, also different tenders for the 4-4-0, 4-6-0 and 2-10-0. The 4-8-2 was a bigger tender, it had sound too. So I think that all the engines were covered because they all had different tenders. The sound / DC unit could be done as other suppliers have done. I haven't covered the Vanderbilt type tenders as only the current 2-6-6-2 has a sound unit in it. As all tenders have been produced with sound, from the 4-4-0 to the 4-8-2, those could be covered. As far as getting the right connections between the loco and tender, their obvious standardization should help with that.
Quote from: pdlethbridge on April 24, 2010, 08:11:52 PMAs far as getting the right connections between the loco and tender, their obvious standardization should help with that.
That would cost a lot more money than you'd think. Your idea although good in theory is impractical for Bachmann at this point in time due to compatibility issues and the issues pointed out by Joe.
Why is it such a problem to make a tender with sound. You all ready make one for each of the engines I mentioned. Why can't more be produced without the engines? Don't make it more complex, because it really isn't. I have a 4-4-0 that has the tender but no sound. I would buy a sound tender if it were made. The same goes for my decapod. The engine and tender for all the locos have a 4 wire and 2 wire connector. Is it different in the sound units. I don't think so. it sure looks like a 2 and 4 wire harness to me.
from the favoritespot on ebay a photo of the decapod
(http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!BeWwt5wBmk~$(KGrHqQOKjIErzCgCo7+BK82zifO)g~~_1.JPG?set_id=8800005007)
and the 4-6-0
(http://i10.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/08/bd/53b3_1_sbl.JPG)
The main problem is the confusion that would ensue among the not as experienced modelers because Bachmann tenders are not inter-compatible. When they fix the compatibility issues then they may make them available separately, but it is not going to be cheap.
If people aren't sure what they are doing, the information on compatibility should be required on the tender boxes, IE, model numbers of the engines the tender is for. People wouldn't put a standard USRA tender behind a 4-4-0 but would put it behind a 4-6-0, 2-8-0, or even a 2-10-0.
How about a Frieght or passenger car with self contained sound? Just pull it right behind your tender.
NM
Back in the mid-80's before the on-set of middle age and far sightedness, I was very involved with N-scale. I seem to recall that there was a company that produced sound electronics for N-scale, although I can't remember the name. Their solution was exactly what NM suggests--put the circuitry in a box car or baggage car coupled directly behind the engine. This approach has the added advantage, the company said in their advertising, of keeping the cost down since you need fewer sound units than you have locomotives.
Old Timer
Yes, but for operators that doesn't exactly work out. People wanting to set out cars on the road, switch equipment in yards, and have passenger trains broken up and reassembled such as in terminal operations could not use cars like that. Furthermore, it's likely difficult to find the one car with sound in a sea of rolling stock.
Pretty much why I never bothered to look into it beyond what I saw in the Walthers catalog. Plus, as I recall, the modules were very expensive.
Quote from: pdlethbridge on April 24, 2010, 08:39:57 PM
If people aren't sure what they are doing, the information on compatibility should be required on the tender boxes, IE, model numbers of the engines the tender is for. People wouldn't put a standard USRA tender behind a 4-4-0 but would put it behind a 4-6-0, 2-8-0, or even a 2-10-0.
I will mention this again. Some months ago I purchased the USRA medium tender to put behind my small driver 4-6-0. Different connector setup. Bachmann provides two sets of short jumpers/connectors to make the connection. Problem being, the jumpers reverse the polarity of all three pairs of DCC wires.
I am suspicious by nature so I first took out my multimeter and did some continuity checks.
The first is, motor direction is switched.
Second, the headlight polarity is switched. The LED headlight would blow because there is no LED resistor on the PC board. Even if there was a resistor, the LED would never light.
The third makes the first two a moot point. The track pickup form the loco is reversed which makes a short.
There is a resistor on the board but only 220 ohm so with a light bulb loco, the headlight would dim on reveres direction.
Bottom line, when you get into DCC at this level, get a cheap multimeter and learn how to use it.
Bachmann may solve the compatibility issue but don't hold your breath.
There will be a lot of non compatible Bachmann steamer stuff out there for some time.
Rich
Quote from: Guilford Guy on April 25, 2010, 11:57:48 AM
Yes, but for operators that doesn't exactly work out. People wanting to set out cars on the road, switch equipment in yards, and have passenger trains broken up and reassembled such as in terminal operations could not use cars like that. Furthermore, it's likely difficult to find the one car with sound in a sea of rolling stock.
I agree. That is why I advocate putting sound systems in dummy diesels. With steam locomotives, you can put a motion decoder in the locomotive and a sound decoder in the tender. If you wish to share the tender, you can eliminate all wiring between the locomotive and tender if you really want to. The motion decoder in the locomotive eliminates the motor wires and headlight wires. Proper maintenance of pickups on both locomotive and tender eliminates the pickup wires. That is all of the normal six wires gone. If you want a tender light, you can use a sound plus motion decoder in the tender to run it or you can add a single function decoder instead. If you would like to retain the extra pickup from the tender, set your own standard for how you connect them.
Jim