The grandkids want to help with a new layout.I have tons of stuff from older layout's I have done over the years.All were dual cab controlled not digital.I have many older engine's.I like the dual cab type layouts and have all the controllers parts ect.Would you start a new layout not going with the new Digital control.The layout will be 20 ft by 7 ft area.It seems most are going digital now.But having so many older DC engines that I would love to use.I know they can be converted but that is quite a of work.I was going to keep the layout simple for the kids to run.2 mains and a few branches and a yard.Also where is a good place to get wire online for the layout.Well I look forward to coming aboard and thanks for any help. :)
going digital is not an either or proposition. it is possible to wire your layout for cab control (i do) and use a dcc controller as one of the cabs. to do this you can't use common rail wiring, all blocks must be double insulated to keep the dc and dcc isolated from each other.
it is also possible to run dc locomotives on digitrax systems, unmodified, using address 0. i also do this all the time. dc locomotives on dcc are noisy and some claim you will burn out motors. i never have. you can also park your non dcc locomtives in a siding and turn off the block switch just like on dc.
the main difference in the wiring is that for dcc you should use a larger wire size. i use 18 guage which some claim is too small, but i find anything larger than that i have trouble soldering to the rail as the wire no linger fits neatly between the head and base of the rail. you'll also want to add more than one set of feeders per block.
In My Humble Opinion
If you already have lots of DC goods, might as well stick with DC.
The fact you are already familiar with what to do and how to do with cab control is a big plus in your favor.
Plus it will save you some big $$$.
Wire on-line? I'm certain this place will have any type of wire you want.
http://www.radioshack.com/home/index.jsp
or any on-line trains and hobby shop should have wire.
two other Points to ponder
DCC locos will work on a DC system, no problems.
DC Locos do not like DCC power levels which are a bit higher and will burn out DC locos motors if you are not carefull.
I probably wouldn't build a non-DCC layout again. Too much, most even, of the currently for sale merchandise is DCC already. Plus, there are some very real and desirable operational advantages to DCC. Too, you might find that it's easier for a youngster to operate the trains in DCC because they don't have to be continually throwing switches to make sure the right cab has control of the block they are using.
However, you have a lot of DC models. That makes the decision harder. But, some of them probably aren't the best runers anyway, and it's really not that hard to convert most locos as long as you can isolate the motor from both rails. Sometimes that means a new motor, sometimes not. Actually, the new motor may be the easiest and cheapest at times.
As for running DC locos on DCC, I wouldn't do that very often. There are many reports of damage, but not everyone has trouble. I would never leave a DC model sitting on an operating DCC track. That's just asking for a failure.
Cheap wire? You might find it anywhere. I suggest going through a current model railroading magazine and checking several of the advertisers' on-line prices.
I know you'll enjoy model railroading with the little ones. I consider myself so lucky to be ble to do that with one of my grandsons.
here is a good source for wire
http://www.allelectronics.com/ (http://www.allelectronics.com/)
Having recently made the switch from DC to DCC, here are some observations:
1. Operationing a DCC layout is a lot easier. I must admit I went with the EZ Command system. It does have some limitations but it is push a button and turn the throttle. So you have the choice of a simple DCC controller. This could be very easy for youngsters. It has some other limitations but on my small 4 x 7 layout it works great. I added one remote controller, too.
2. It is a lot easier to wire, other than running heavier gauge dual feeder wires. Which would help a DC layout too. You really don't need any switches to control the tracks.
3. I had several DC locomotives and have converted 6 now. It gets easier each time but they all seem to be challenging trying to squeeze all of the extra wire back in the small HO narrow shells I like. I have purchased 4 Bachmann DCC locomotives and they are not too expensive. By the way there are lots of on line resources to help with conversions.
4. I did cheat I wired it up so I can switch back and forth between DC and DCC but am finding I would rather run the DCC locomotives because how easy it is to control them.
All in all I think DCC is the way to go.
Hope this helps
My brothers layout was for years a duel cab DC layout. With the addition of 1 switch, the layout is now DC or DCC depending on how the switch is thrown. He still has all the blocks and associated switches on his control panel.
We have found over the years that most switches stay in one position. Only passing sidings, yard tracks and reverse sections get switched regularly.
Run a two track main line with isolated 2 ovals each with its own Power supply
Run branches and sidings off each one
That way you don't need blocks just switches for the sidings
With a 7 foot width you can easily have independent sidings etc for each oval
Thanks guys for all your help.Lots of good ideas.I think I will go dual cab for now.But use larger wire for the runs so it could easy be used for DCC later.I just have to many nice Engine that I want to use that are DC.I allready have a control panel that can be used for any lay out.I made one on my last lay out with all the turnout switches running across the top and all the block controls running down one side.I just replace the black tape of the track design and use Number decals for where the turnouts and block are.But I will get a DCC down the road.Now just getting stared and picking a layout plan.My room is 25 long by 13.I was thinking of a 20 by 7 table in the middle but now looking at a U shape layout 40in wide on each leg of U 15ft long and top of U 40in.I will have to stick with 18in radius turns.But I do not use large trains like passengers cars.Mostly coal ' Tankers 'Box.I have done mountain layouts withs lots of hydrocal but will mostly use a midwest theme.Thanks BOB
I recommend that if you have the room, go with 22" radius as your minimum on the main lines
I went with Panels that were 2' x 4' in size and doubled them on the ends. This gave me room for 22" radius curves and 2' wide on the rest of the layout. I kept it low ( 32" ) for easy reach as I'm handicapped. The inside curve on the left is 19 1/2" radius which would have been bigger if I had the room. All other curves are 22" and 24" radius. I use code 83 Atlas track. Here is what it looks like. It is set against the right wall and the left loop has a 2' isle next to it. All areas of the layout are accessible from both sides except the 2' wide areas next to the wall, they are easy to reach.
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/pdleth/newLayout02.jpg)
That looks like a nice layout.I misspoke about the radius.I am looking at a point to point layout that uses 24 radius.It is a U shape plan that will run up against the walls all way around my room leaving a nice area in the center.The plan is out of a old 101 track plans by Linn Westcott of the Iron ridge & Mayville.It would give me nice background of drywall to use for sky and hills and such to paint.It is a good size point to point.I have tons of atlas code 100 nickle silver flex allready.But I am still debating.I know some like to watch trains go around in circles but I really love point tp point.It will be 50ft run from the furthest town to the other town track wise.But I have a few weeks before i get the room ready for bench work. :)
If your room is 13' wide, you could put a couple of 4' x 4' sections on each end to give you the option of continuous running or point to point. like this
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/pdleth/Layout01.jpg?t=1272317566)
Yes I have thought about that.Yes I have room to make the turns to come back.I look at your pics on your post.Very nice work.I might use some of your plan to make the ends larger so I can make a complete loop.It is nice to just let the trains run while just sitting back and injoying a pint of Ale ;D.
This is big enough to double track and give it a really long, long run. Would you like to see what I mean, I could whip up a quick plan of the mainline
Thanks yes by all means.I am Bob.Glad to meet you :)
here is a suggestion. Real long mainline, grades room for large yard, room for lots of sidings, branch lines, etc.
All curves are 24" outside and 22" inside
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/pdleth/Layout00.jpg?t=1272319784)
Hi, I'm Paul
Thanks that looks like a fun track.I will take it into consideration.
A quick look and I can see about a 12" difference in height between the loops on the right top. That's about 1" per 8' of rise, or about a 1% grade. That will give you a grade challenge and I would think that the scenery could be spectacular. The straight sections don't have to be straight, but could gently curve to give the impression of distance. There is plenty of opportunities for bridges and rivers. There could be a small helper yard at the beginning of the grade, and the main yard could be off the left side upper loop track where it crosses the 2 double curves. With the use of crossings at this spot and a reverse loop situation, parallel yard leads could be made to the yard for both freight and passenger.
My last layout was a mountain layout.So as I mention earlier this will more urban.I notice all the straights'looks kind of like a slot car track.I will more than likely do a point to point with alot of switching.Some small rolling hills in a few places.
i'm not a big fan of straight track either. it just makes the layout look smaller. that said, you can replace the straights with very gently curved flex track, say a 72" radius or so. that will allow you to wind a little around a town or mountain or other obstacle. for me, the point is not being able to see from one end of the layout to the other. i think it adds to the illusion when you can't see how short your trains really are.
I made the straights straight for speed not beauty or operation. Those long straights could always have gentle curves and go into hiding at various places. This plan was a mock up to show the potential of the space. It was not a concrete plan, more like paper mache.
I am close to picking my plan.The track will be point to point.I am going with 30in wide shelf 18ft long legs U shape.That will leave plent of room for spurs here and their.Then later I could allways connect the loop to make a complete loop.
On Point to Point
Do you turn the engine around at each end point ?
If not how does it get back ?
Well this layout call for 2 turntables at each end of the route.But one can allways use reverse.I have 1 table from my last layout that I will use.
Or you could use a wye
Could we see your plan, sounds interesting.
Astro-
The May (I think) Model Railroader has a plan for a wye with a folding leg so it is out of the way unless you are running trains.
--D
Hi all.I took some pics of the layout.My plan is from 3 different plans I put togeather.Right now it wll be point to point.But it will one day connect to make a huge square.Here is a link to my album.My other hobby is astrophotgraphy.Their are like 33 pages of my pics toys and family.I have decided on a Digitrax syytem for control.All mainline switches will be controlled and others will be manual.Comments welcome.THANKS BOB
http://tinyurl.com/33wpqng
Does your cat help lay the track? ;D ;D ;D My cat got a lot of hair on the layout and I was constantly cleaning hair from the tracks, engines, cars and tunnels. My brother banned his cats from the basement for the same reason.
Very neatly done. That will be sweet.
The "spokesmodel" is a great addition - all layouts should have one! ;)
Yes I know about cat hair ;D .My last track was where their was no door.Now I have a door and the cats only go in when I go in sometimes.I had a hairball derail my train once :o.They do love to sit on the stools and watch the trains.They just are amazed by them.I think I will be getting the Digitrax zepher system to operate the layout later.Will use DC for now while laying and testing track.Anyone use digitrax.Thanks Bob
The hairball express derailed one of my trains too. Bad kitty! BAD KITTY! I wasn't even modeling the Chessie :o :o :o :o :o :o
(http://sleep.mobi/images/chessie%20cat.jpg)
Download some barking dog sounds, BIG barking dog sounds, and see how the kitties like that! I'm not really advocating being cruel, just suggesting another way to let the kitties know that they aren't welcome on the railroad.
I used to record myself calling my dog and then turn it on, position myself to the other side of her and call her myself. That poor little sweety. She didn't know whether to s**t or go blind. God bless her. I had her for 17 years and putting her down was one of the most difficult things I ever had to do, so hard that I want a dog now but I'm afraid to get one.
--D
Donaldon,
It is tough. I know. Have you considered volunteering at the shelter? Something to think about and very OT, for which I appologize.
Old Timer