I am trying to make up a medium length point to point "break down" test track with a single or double ended parallel siding using EZ Track? Apparently, there is nothing "easy" about the seemingly common task of bringing a track out of a switch and running it parallel to the main? Parallel sidings should be no big deal and I have been eyeing one or two EZ Track #6 turnouts for my siding. After spending a lot of time on line, on the Bachmann site and on this forum, I was amazed that I could find no satisfactory answer? I read a lot of opinions and suggestions, "part of a 22" radius" or "part of a 26"" radius and even a suggestion of "part of an 18" radius?" On a #6 switch? Right? From what I have read here, there is no information in the Bachmann track book either? So Mr. Bachmann or any one else who really knows? What parts do I need to buy to assemble my siding? I would settle for a single ended but would prefer a double ended if possible?
An alternative would be to use an atlas switch and flex track on cork roadbed where you need it. Scenery would cover it and no one will know.
That is really not an option for a "break down" test track that can be set up anywhere there is a flat surface. On my main layout I use nothing but flex track and good quality switches on cork or Homosote. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
Dear Goeff,
Here is free track software with an HO EZ-Track library (if you want to experiment):
http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html
Just remember that the (2" and smaller) fitter track assortment is not yet available, though you can get four 2" straights as part of the 90 degree crossing.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Hello Joe,
Thanks for the tip! I just got through playing with the software a bit. It really is kind of cool! According to what I can determine using the software, a half 26"R or a half 28"R would be pretty close? However, Bachman does not make such an animal unless I just cant find it? The one third 18"R appears to come the closest to providing a parallel track but and 18"R used with a #6 switch is a bit counter productive.
Thanks again!
Hey Geoff,
You're welcome. I had previously asked for a curve to take the #6 back to parallel, knowing that one was needed.
If you click on the end of a piece of track, AnyRail will tell you its departure angle. For the #6 turnout, AnyRail claims that the divergent route is 9.46 degrees more than the through route end.
I suppose you could cut a chunk out the middle of a 26"R, 28"R, 33.25"R or 35.5"R curve section to leave the ends totaling 9.46 degrees (of arc) and glue and solder the ends back together.
Don't know if they'll release one some day...again, it's something that we do need.
Tried a #6 double ended siding with 18"R-10 degree pieces on AnyRail. Looks like we would need a 6-1/8" fitter straight to complete it. I suppose two 3" straights would get it close.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Joe,
The partial 18"R does come the closest but using an 18R on a #6 switch seems a little absurd? I just can't imagine how Bachmann could not have seen this coming? It is a very common requirement for any mainline passing siding where large motive power and rolling stock is used? To me there is not much point in offering a #6 switch that can't be brought back to parallel the mainline? Cutting out a chunk in the middle of an 26R or 28R and then soldering and gluing back together could be done but why bother? Just use different track!
Geoff
Bachmann is over all doing a great job for the hobby and I own many of their locomotives so please don't misunderstand what I am saying? I only offer this as a suggestion to make their product better! Just out of curiosity I just went to a competator's web site to see how they handle their #6 switch (turnout) with their track system? The possibiliies are impresive! For example, they sell special track pieces for the #6 that not only brings it back to parellel with the mainline but also makes both ends of the turnout end up being the same length! This allows a double ended siding with the same number of straight sections on both sections of track between the turnouts. This sort of kills two birds with one stone! Bachmann has been very inovative but this is one time it would be to their benifit and ours for them to look at what the competition is doing?
Geoff,
Do you own a #6 HO EZ-Track turnout?
Joe Satnik
Joe,
Yes I just purchased a DCC #6 on eBay for a great price! I have enough EZ track to make an oval with 22"R curves and about 20 pieces of straight track. I have been using some of the straight track as a test and programming track that can be broke down and moved along with my NCE Power Cab DCC system. I thought the passing siding would be nice to park a few locomotives on. Large motive power can be a pain to put back on the track with all the wheels and older eyes.
My main layout, in the early stages, is about 18ft x 32ft. It is in a room in my daylight basement and uses flex track and high grade turnouts on cork and Homosote. I have a NCE Pro Cab Radio with two 5 amp boosters for use on this layout.
This situation with the #6 is not an earth shattering problem for me but it is annoying. I felt is was something worth discussing for the group in general. I am disappointed that Bachmann did not take this into consideration when their main rival has handled these situation admirably. It just goes to show that you can't assume anything no matter how obvious it may seem? I guess I will just sell the #6?
I want to thank everyone for their input but until Bachmann decides to deal with this, I see no viable solution for those who want to use EZ track?
Geoff
Dear Geoff,
Can you make a few (3) measurements for me?
The sharp part of the frog and the inside rails beyond the frog form a small "V".
Can you please measure as precisely as you can (within 1/32"? or half mm?)
the lengths of both legs from the point of the V to the ends of the 2 legs,
plus the gap across the ends of the 2 legs (the top of the V).
Measure the gap to the wheel flange sides of the top of the inside rails.
Thanks.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Joe,
I would be happy to just as soon as it arrives! I got it from the Favorite Spot on eBay and I was just holding out to see what else I needed to buy to make it work? I will get you the information as soon as I receive it!
Geoff
If I'm not mistaken, a 22" radius curve would make your siding parallel with a #6 turnout. I have a small yard, and did my best to make it as parallel as possible, without using 18" radius curves (I only use 22" curves). It didn't work very well, but since standard Bachmann turnouts (like the ones that come in sets) are equivalent to an 18" radius curve, I had to end up putting a 1/4th of an 18" curve there, and then a 22" curve, which made it parallel. So, it depends what a #6 turnout is equivalent to, but if it were equivalent to a 22" curve, then I'm pretty sure you would just need a 22" curve there to make it parallel.
Hope this helps.
A #6 turnout is not equivalent to any radius track. And just in case you were wondering, #4 turnouts, #5 turnouts, and #8 turnouts do not have any equivalent radius track either.
I believe you are mistaken? A full 22R piece is 22.5 degrees of arc and a 1/2 22R is 11.25 degrees. The EZ track #6 needs somewhere between 9 and 9.5 degrees of arc to run parallel! The EZ track 26R, 28R, 33.25R and 35.5R are all 18 degrees per piece. A half size piece of any of these would provide 9 degrees or arc! However, Bachmann make none of these in half sizes!
ABC,
To my knowledge we are not talking about turnouts being equal to any particular curved section? We are talking about how many degrees of redirection are required to bring the diverging leg of the turnout back into a parallel with the straight leg, as would be needed for a double ended passing siding. The radius is not the issue! Any sufficient radius would work! The degrees of arc is the issue! 90 degrees of arc makes a full right ot left turn. The #6 need about 9 degrees and Backman makes no such track!
To me, making a custom piece of E-Z track is easy. If a 22" radius section is 22.5o and you want 9o or 40% of a full section, just cut out the center 60% on a standard section and throw it away. Join the two ends together using rail joiners to join the rails and styrene cement to glue the base. For extra strength, you can add some strip of styrene inside the base. You custom section now goes together and comes apart just like any other section of E-Z Track. Just the thing for a break down test section. If you are worried about losing this special section in a sea of other sections, just paint the end hooks bright red. Then your special section will stand out like a sore thumb, at least until you set up your temporary test track and the red hooks disappear inside the adjoining pieces of track.
If you really do not want to make custom sections, there is an alternate solution. You want to turn back 9o because your #6 turnout is 9o. As it happens, Bachmann does make a 9o piece. It is called a #6 turnout. Two #6 turnouts, both left hand or both right hand, will give you exactly what you want. This may seem a little extravagant, but it could be very useful to have a stub siding available along with your passing track (double ended siding.)
Bottom line, your problem does not seem to be unsolvable. The solutions do require you to spend either some time or some money but in the one case the cost is very small and in the other case you get an extra siding.
Jim
With all due respect Jim, why should I have to make a custom piece of track to do something that is so common and should have been provided for in the first place by Bachman? Additional #6 turnouts is not an option for a double ended passing siding and parallel passing sidings are not some obscure trackage like a double slip switch. They are both common and required for standard RR operation! I would also say that making a shorter piece of EX track is not quite as easy as you infer and would be difficult for most users who have chosen to use ready made track in the first place? Can it be done? Of coarse! My position is that it should not be necessary in order to install such a common and useful from of trackage! Go to Kato's site and look at what is provided for configuring just about anything with a #6 turnout of ready made track! Bachmann could learn something!!
Quote from: geoff on April 29, 2010, 05:01:54 PM
ABC, To my knowledge we are not talking about turnouts being equal to any particular curved section?
You weren't, but it appeared the other fellow was, and if you like the Kato track so much why don't you sell your Bachmann track and buy some Kato Unitrack.
ABC your position seems to be that any criticism of Bachmann EZ track is to be frowned upon? I guess in your mind it is beyond criticism? EZ Track, love it or leave it!!
I have pointed out a legitimate problem that other people also recognize. I have then pointed out what a competitor has done to solve the same problem. Sorry you don't approve, but a problem can't be fixed until it is pointed out and time and effort can be saved by seeing how others have dealt with a similar problem? It is called constructive criticism and keeping an eye on the competition. It improves the products that we as modelers are offered! I am sorry that you can't see that I am interested in having Bachmann solve the problem for everybody, even you. I think Bachmann is doing some great things and own an awful lot of their HO and On30 products but this forum exists to share solutions and voice our opinions. Concerns and observations both positive and negative benefit of all of us and especially Bachmann!!
If Kato has its act together and has a good product then buy that, Bachmann may be aware of this issue, but it costs money to make molds and it might take a while for them to make the molds, before they make a decision they have to look at how this will affect everything and project the profit they would make. If they can't make a large profit off of something then there is no point in making it; it isn't good business sense.
Being that Easy-Track is "fixed" and not flex track, I don't know why these special track sections to make a genuine passing siding are not included with the switch it's self. You either use it or you don't If it were produced with the switch then how would it effect the cost of the switch and the manufacturing?
I think that the original intent of the EZ track was not its flexibility, but its ability to stay put on a floor. Its original design was probably not for a train table, but for under a tree or on the floor in a spare room. It didn't have the extra pieces because they really weren't needed.
Quote from: pdlethbridge on April 30, 2010, 02:22:43 AM
I think that the original intent of the EZ track was not its flexibility, but its ability to stay put on a floor. Its original design was probably not for a train table, but for under a tree or on the floor in a spare room. It didn't have the extra pieces because they really weren't needed.
I think you're probably correct. The earliest EZ Track booklet, which featured only the black roadbed track, was full of ideas for creating layouts on a floor.
Geoff,
Try experimenting on AnyRail with two #6 lefts, two 18"R-10 degree curves, and any even number of regular straights, including zero.
AnyRail seems to be ok with (lets one connect) curve on the divergent, or curve on the main.
l on divergent
l
l\
l l
l l
\ l
l
l
l on main
l
l\
\ \
\ \
\ l
l
l
The symmetry makes both legs equal distance.
"Curves on main" reduces "S" curves.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Although the original intent may have been a simple on the floor layout, it has gone way past that! When you add crossovers and DCC #6 turnouts at $60 plus (MSRP) you are going way beyond a simple "floor layout" that come with a train set! Bachmann themselves is touting it as a comprehensive track system. They have advertisements that show the track laid out on carpet and then ballasted with scenery side by side in the same picture! This contention of only simple track plans does not hold up!
Bottom line is that Bachmann needs to add some very badly needed accessory track pieces in order to properly use some of their more expensive components! In my opinion, there is absolutely no excuse to offer a turnout that can not be configured so that both diverging tracks can be made to run parallel to each other. Whether for use as a run around track or a passing siding, this is pretty basic stuff! To offer a "high speed" #6 turnout that can not be configured in this manner is akin to having a "senior moment" Kato includes these pieces with their #6 remote turnout and offers them sepertely in 2 per package seperately. Bachmann should do something similar.
I don't think there is much more to be said about this problem? The ball is in Bachmann's court and they are the only ones who can correct the problem! For those who don't see this as a problem or think it is bad form to point out these kinds of issues? Have a nice day!
Joe,
While I appreciate your efforts these configurations require that you can't have a straight mainline and you must jog both the mainline and the siding. This defeats the whole idea of having a slower train pull on to the siding while the express or passenger goes by on straight track with out slowing down?
The truth is that in order to have a proper parallel siding using Bachmann EZ track #6 turnouts you can either "kit bash" the needed track piece yourself or wait for Bachmann to correct this deficiency. I just don't see any other way to do it?
All sectional track systems have limitations. The last time I needed a 49o crossing with one straight track crossing a 30" radius curved track, I found nary a one. Truth is, I didn't look very hard. With my luck, they would come only in right hand versions and I needed a left hand one. So I did what model railroaders have done since model trains got off the floor and onto tracks - I built one. It took awhile, having to learn how to design crossings, what the limitations of crossings were, and how to wire all metal crossings. That first one wasn't pretty, but it worked. I have never since worried about whether a particular section is available to not. If it is, I use it. If it isn't, I hand lay it.
By comparison, chopping up a piece of E-Z Track is easy. The piece shown below (60% of an 18" radius curve) took 12 minutes, 11 seconds to make, or about an hour less than driving to the hobby shop to buy such a piece (if it existed in the first place.) I don't consider the lack of an 18o 18"R curve any more or any less of a "deficiency" than any other partial curve as long as I am only 12:11 away from having exactly what I want.
For those interested, I have included a photo of the results below. The top view of the finished product shows the barely visible joint. The cuts were made with an Atlas hobby saw and the tie undercuts for the rail joiners were made with the same saw. The bottom view shows a piece of left over track base used to strengthen the joint. I suspect the plastic is something similar to ABS rather than straight styrene so I used a multi purpose cement that works with both. Crazy glue would have done as well.
(http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/E-Z-Track.jpg)
Jim
To me, making a custom piece of E-Z track is easy. If a 22" radius section is 22.5o and you want 9o or 40% of a full section, just cut out the center 60% on a standard section and throw it away. Join the two ends together using rail joiners to join the rails and styrene cement to glue the base. For extra strength, you can add some strip of styrene inside the base. You custom section now goes together and comes apart just like any other section of E-Z Track. Just the thing for a break down test section. If you are worried about losing this special section in a sea of other sections, just paint the end hooks bright red. Then your special section will stand out like a sore thumb, at least until you set up your temporary test track and the red hooks disappear inside the adjoining pieces of track.
Thats an idea I'm going to try
Jim,
Nice job and photos.
Geoff,
I've posted about the needed (#6 divergent route back to parallel) curve years ago, which so far has fallen on deaf ears.
Yours is a new voice, though. That might help.
I had asked for a 9 degree, 43" (or so) radius curve.
I understand the concept of pulling into the siding ("S" curves on each end) to clear the (straight-high speed) main.
With an incomplete track system, one is often forced to use symmetry to make things (track formations that connect back on themselves) "work" or "fit". Often, the symmetry doesn't match the prototype.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Has anyone thought of a "special track pack"
Something in the range of $10-$20 that includes 2 of each special track length/radius.
Such as the short straights, and the curves to match the divergence of the switch.
I needed all sorts of special pieces for the layout I built for my grandson and I just rolled my own. I didn't even bother to cut out middles and glue the ends together; I just cut a piece to the size I needed and soldered the rails, using the glue which holds the EZ track sections to the roadbed hold the ballast together. This included cutting ends off of turnouts. It was all very easy and it works just fine.
--D
While I guess it would be nice to get another piece of track along with the switch, I don't see where the problem is in just cutting and fitting what you want. After all, a single piece of track will provide several of the needed short sections to bring the switch back in line with the mainline. Model Railroader mag had a series of videos called, "Dream It, Plan It, Build It", and I've seen someone in another group state that the way both MR and an awful lot of people approach the hobby these days it should have been, "Dream It, Plan It, Buy It". I can't really imagine a layout where I wouldn't need to custom fit track and I'm quite happy with the Bachmann product line other than perhaps some still wider radius curves and gauntlet track for my bridges. It saves me a lot of time and is very reliable. I like the ballest base itself but I plan to spread loose ballest over it at some point to make it even more realistic. In the mean time, though, any track I lay looks good from the start and can await further refinements. The only thing I do is paint the sides of the rails and leave the tops clean then lay it down.
Maybe painting the side of the rail is too much to ask of we "modelers" these days, though, so should we start a "paint the rails" campaign.
Regards