Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: on30gn15 on May 28, 2010, 06:40:57 PM



Title: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on May 28, 2010, 06:40:57 PM
Went to spray clear gloss on V&T 4-6-0 Big Hauler cab and tender.
Washed tender shell with dish soap, rinsed.
Same thing did to passenger cars earlier - primer covered them just fine.

Started spraying tender with Rust-Oleum Crystal Clear and paint just beaded up on Bachmann factory paint.

Now what do I do?  ???  :-\  :'(

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa309/FSW4picts/G%20gauge%20projects/IMG_3320.jpg)

Well, this certainly looks like evidence to support my belief that the life is basically a sadistic prankster. Or maybe it's Bachmann who's the sadistic prankster; I can't tell right now.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on May 28, 2010, 07:44:51 PM
I guess at this point, just box the set up and consider it a four hundred dollar lost cause.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: mudhen on May 28, 2010, 08:46:02 PM
Why not contact Bachmann Service Department or Parts Department and find out if they sell the tender shell and cab for you engine paint scheme. They sell parts for most of there products they sell, you my get lucky and if push comes to shove, go on E-Bay. Find a new or used engine and tender. Swap the parts need and paint it.
Use only paints, clear, gloss, and dull coats made for plastic models. And above all else, not matter what anyone tells you. TEST it first on the inside of your model.  That's to see if it's compatible with the paint. In your case you have a shell to test on the inside with. I fell your Pain, but you will never do it again.
By the way the picture you took, the paint job looks like your railroad paint shop just painted over the rust without sand blasting it first.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: Chuck N on May 28, 2010, 08:54:24 PM
This all depends upon your intended use.  I over sprayed my Climax last year and had the same effect.  If you are going to put it on a shelf as a center of attraction, you are in deep doo.  If on the other hand your are planning to run it on a railroad inside or out, it will be a lot less noticeable.  

Since my intended use was to to pull some log cars, the blistering of the paint turned out to be not a big problem.

One thing to remember if you are running it, is the 10' rule.  If it is not easily seen at a distance of 10' it is not as bad as you think it is.  This is especially true if the train is moving.  It will look a lot worse to you than to anyone else.

Next time use very thin and light over sprays.  I learned the hard way.

Chuck


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on May 28, 2010, 09:31:56 PM
If you are going to put it on a shelf as a center of attraction, you are in deep doo.  If on the other hand your are planning to run it on a railroad inside or out, it will be a lot less noticeable

Both.

But it's the set I wanted the most and wanted to fix up the nicest to look like it was fresh out of the shops in the mid 1870s.  >:(


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on May 28, 2010, 09:38:25 PM
Use only paints, clear, gloss, and dull coats made for plastic models.

I couldn't find any clear enamels model paints, only lacquers.
Clear coat lacquers like Testors Glosscoat don't hold up well for me to begin with and I didn't think lacquer was wise to use over an unknown paint.

I have some clear acrylic model paint in bottles but was leery of using it on something destined for outdoor use and frequent heavy handling.

Sadly, I know about the test the stuff thing but that thought never happened.
Looking back, the tender interior paint appears to be mostly overspray which wouldn't be the same environment as a full coat of paint - would a test on that offered an accurate assessment anyway?

But mostly, the mind decided the spray paints were working fine over the other cars and loco parts from that set, therefore this would work too.

Guess not.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: Bucksco on May 28, 2010, 11:18:05 PM
Contact the parts department on Tuesday and we'll see if we have a spare cab and tender shell for you. I wouldn't go so far as to blame the manufacturer. Next time I would suggest testing the paint you intend to use on a part of the train that doesn't show such as the underside or the inside of a part before spraying the whole thing. I've never had good luck with Krylon. If I were going to spray a gloss coat I think I would have tried a lacquer based enamel like Testors. I don't know how it would hold up in the great outdoors but a trick we use in the plastic modelling world for gloss coats before decaling is to use future floor polish.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on May 29, 2010, 12:37:06 AM
I've had bad luck with the durability of lacquers and thought that if anything would react badly with factory paint lacquer certainly would be the one.

I have some Future for the HO and On30 but that durability thing had me decide against that.

The inside of the tender shell is bare plastic except for a trace of overspray.
Nothing to test on.
If interior of tender shell was painted would you be seeing where plastic turns white from stress at base of post and up where screw goes in?
A coat of paint would obscure that, would it not?
{note - cat hair is not factory original}

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa309/FSW4picts/G%20gauge%20projects/IMG_3322.jpg)

Went a little bit ago and did a "test shot" on tender interior. Got a nearly glassy smooth finish on the bare plastic. Camera was being neurotic about where to focus but the photo still works.

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa309/FSW4picts/G%20gauge%20projects/IMG_3324.jpg)

In this case having done a test shot first would have given a meaningless result.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on May 29, 2010, 01:41:29 AM
See, my line of logic is that in 1983 I could spray enamel paint over Athearn HO trains with reckless abandon and it came out fine every time, except when I caused a run.  
And with this being the 21st century and chemistry is more advanced, therefore spray paints would work even better now.

Boy am I a bloody fool for thinking like that.

The world has changed, people have changed, and model trains are just too big a hassle in this day and age.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: Loco Bill on May 29, 2010, 11:10:42 AM
I have never had a problem with the Rustoleum products, including clear, over Bachmann products.   I use extremely light coats from 14 to 16 inches away and it works fine.   I use it before and after decaling.  Looking at your model I believe that you probably got to close with the spray.  I had a similar problem on an Aristo Box car when I got too close, and the temperature and humidity were high. 

I get best results when the temps are around 70 to 80 and the humidity is no more than 50 to 60 percent.

I often wait for those good days or turn the AC on in my shop till conditions are right before I paint.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: Loco Bill on May 29, 2010, 11:14:40 AM
I forgot to mention that I have never has a problem with the Krylon clear coats which are made for outdoor use.  I like the satin and the flat best, but often use the primers as well.  I use the red oxide primer for trucks and couplers with excellent results.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on May 29, 2010, 02:45:16 PM
I use extremely light coats from 14 to 16 inches away and it works fine.   I use it before and after decaling.  Looking at your model I believe that you probably got to close with the spray.
Could be. Could well be. The can says 10 to 12. I was probably closer to the 10 than the 12.
Put card table up on the balcony, put tender shell on top of peanut butter jar and hit it from that point.
The way wind swirls around this apartment building you gotta take opportunities when they come because I have to go outside to do the job.

Quote
I get best results when the temps are around 70 to 80 and the humidity is no more than 50 to 60 percent.
We had 83 F and around 41% humidity, that was less than max of 90 F and 83% so I thought it was safe from that point.

Quote
I often wait for those good days or turn the AC on in my shop till conditions are right before I paint.
Oh it would be nice to have that! I gotta settle for an apartment.

Thought about brushing on Future but then decided spray enamel would be more durable.

Guess that was the wrong decision: the logic used in reasoning out the options was flawed.  And how.  :( :-[ :'(


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: NarrowMinded on May 29, 2010, 03:16:43 PM
I have been in the same boat with paints beading up on plastic I have a theory that static electricity is one of the causes for this beading.  Autobody supply stores sell a special cloth for wiping down a car before you paint it, it picks up all the dust and I also think it cuts down the static electricity sort of like static guard spray for your clothes.

Second have you thought of waxing your tender and cab with a good car wax to protect it and bring out the shine? Maybe a little more work but better then a wrecked paint job.

Lastly paint companies have to keep up with EPA rules which change at times they also change ingredients do to cost now and then so the can may be the same but the paint inside may be different.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on May 29, 2010, 03:46:58 PM
Autobody supply stores sell a special cloth for wiping down a car before you paint it, it picks up all the dust and I also think it cuts down the static electricity sort of like static guard spray for your clothes.
Ahh, did not know about that

Quote
Second have you thought of waxing your tender and cab with a good car wax to protect it and bring out the shine? Maybe a little more work but better then a wrecked paint job.
No. That idea would never have occurred. Hmmm . . . there is the Glenbrook Valley tender  . . .


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: Loco Bill on May 30, 2010, 11:34:05 PM
I really don't think these problems can be blamed on the manufacturer's, there are just too many variables, and no manufacturer can control what we do to their product after we get it.   Some paints and clearcoats are just not compatible, and it is easy to make mistakes when applying different products.  I was a custom painter for years, everytime I thought I was invincible, something would happen to humble me.  I used to brag that I could spray floquil paint on bare plastic without crazing every time.  I was wrong about that on a customers expensive passenger car, so anything that can go wrong often will!

All we can really do is learn from our experiences as best we can!


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: NarrowMinded on May 31, 2010, 12:00:12 AM
just a thought here, if the shell is ruined and you have nothing to loose try rubbing a small spot with a little 90% denatured alcohol it may remove the fresh clear and leave the original undamaged. I use to use it to remove lettering but  lately it hasn't worked on bachmann paints, now I just use it to clean overspray from clear windows.

NM


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: jpipkin on May 31, 2010, 12:14:30 AM
Your problem could have been from residual effects of the detergent.  I have had that happen in the past.  You might try 1500 grit wet sandpaper to see if you can level the surface enough to tray another clear coat.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on May 31, 2010, 10:55:04 AM
Okay, those are ideas.
Probably try alcohol first then sanding.

End of week was having upsetting things happening to begin with and the paint trouble was a sort of the last straw kind of thing.

Will be Thursday before can raid hardware store for the alcohol.

Putting new coal load in SPC loco did go well.

Might put pictures up.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: NarrowMinded on May 31, 2010, 02:02:27 PM
You can usually find the alcohol at any store with a pharmacy, remember to try it inside where you test sprayed first, the clear may have also effected the lettering so try a very small spot where you won't notice.

I would say sand it  with the wet sand paper first if it wasn't for the rivots those are going to be a nitemare to sand around

NM


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: Doneldon on June 01, 2010, 12:48:34 AM
on30gn15 -

Loco Bill has outstanding advice about painting.  Read his suggestions again.  (No, Loco Bill is not my nom de plume.)

Removing the clear coat completely while leaving the factory finish is a possibility.  Try checking at an art museum or with an art conservator for what to use for this.  It can be done.   

Respraying with a matte finish clear coat will greatly reduce the bumpy appearance, assuming you can live with a not-so-shiny locomotive.  That would be the easiest alternative.

Good luck with your loco.  I know how you feel.  I've had a few pet projects go south on me, too.
                                                                              -- D


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on June 01, 2010, 02:58:39 AM
Thanks for the good luck wishes.

Option 1 - is inquiring about a replacement tender shell.

Option 1.1  - is if one can be had to use this one as test subject.

Option 2 - is more work than I want to have to do, but . . .

It's almost, not quite, but almost, a case of, oh well, this loco has had some major alterations already, what's one more.

Mine in front, Kathy's box-stock in back - she won't let me touch it.

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa309/FSW4picts/G%20gauge%20projects/IMG_0734a.jpg)


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on June 01, 2010, 01:04:13 PM
Have replacement shell on order.
Whew, they did have it.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: mudhen on June 03, 2010, 07:32:52 PM
Glad to hear you contacted Bachmann and got a replacement tender shell. No cab ? or is that repairable, or where you lucky enough not to have sprayed it. Anyway you learned a almost real expensive lesson the cheap way. Good for you.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on June 04, 2010, 02:53:45 AM
Hadn't sprayed the cab.

Half a lucky is better than no lucky.

Here's a partway done photo of an earlier repaint which did go well - green Pennsylvania Big Hauler to metallic grey boiler jacketing. But no gloss sprayed on anything yet.
Future was brushed over metallic grey spray paint for polished natural metal boiler jacketing effect.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa309/FSW4picts/G%20gauge%20projects/IMG_0731a.jpg)

Chipped "white sidewalls" paint off wheels, looked out of place on this one.


Title: Re: Now what do I do?
Post by: on30gn15 on June 11, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Replacement V&T tender shell just arrived; looks fine, includes wood load.
Thanks guys  :)