??? Why are most manufacturers ashamed of the equipment that they bring into the U.S. and sell to us? It is marked "Made in Hong Kong", but it seems that if they had any pride in it, then, SURELY, they would put their name on it! I'm glad to see that BACHMANN does, and the now-defunct TYCO, but how do you recognize other manufacturers' products (special reference being made to engines)?
Also, is BACHMANN totally American-made, or is it imported, and, if so, is it marked thusly?
THANX!!
Ernie
Hendersonville, NC
First off, a "train" has two components - motive power and rear markers. Any train that I run may have been made by 20 companies if I have 20 cars, locomotives, and tail end cars.
Gene
Okay, to be more explicit, I am speaking of the individual car, engine, or part. How do you identify, say, an Athearn from an AHM, or some other that is not plainly stamped? Are there certain marks to look for, of which I am not aware?
THANX!!
Ernie
Ernie,
In many cases you just have to know the features and details of each brand to identify them.
I never saw "Brand X" molded in to the floor of a real boxcar, so in the interest of realism, maybe this is one reason why many manufacturers don't mark them.
I have always been amazed at the number of people who discard the boxes model train rolling stock and locos come in. I understand the box has no use when it is on the layout, but the safe storage and transport is impossible without boxes of some sort. Why throw out one type just to buy or use some other type. The boxes always tell you who made it or sold it.
Sheldon
Sheldon: I agree, I keep every box for everything I buy, guns, tools, whatever, until I sell it. Worth more in the original box too. I also have a special filing cabinet for all the little notes,instructions and papers. If there is a warranty card, it should be sent in.
The source of origin must be noted, most reputable companies include their name as well. Look at Atlas or Bachmann, has "China" and factory name.
Bo
Yes, it goes without saying that the box is very important! But, what about those items that come from "Ebay", or a flea market, etc., with no box? Also, I've yet to see a real train with the markings "made in Thialand", but they have no problem putting that on their "realistic"equipment! Could the problem be, at least partly, due to the fact that these parts are sold to various suppliers, and it wouldn't look real good for "Life-Like" to be selling a part with "A.H.M." on the bottom of it?
A somewhat related item would be that cars and equipment should be dated as to what year it represents. That would be nice.
THANX!!
Ernie
Ernie,
Yes, it is true, regardless of what counrty it was made in, that tooling has often been bought, sold and used by more than one "retailer" over the years. As I explained in a recent thread about McHenry and EZ mate couplers, that is the nature of the manufacturing business.
Personaly, I don't buy other peoples junk off ebay or at flea markets and I have been around this stuff long enough to pick up most items and tell you who made them and when. Ask some old timer, don't expect the manufacturer of some 30 year old toy to have a website that details every little piece they ever made.
Also a personal opinion on my part, is the fact that most of the AHM, non Proto Life-Like, IHC, later TYCO and similar RTR train set items are junk I would not want anyway, even if I can identify it. It was nothing special when it was produced, its less special now.
As for "dating" the prototypes, your expectations on the part of these companies is somewhat unrealistic. The customers of the train set companies don't care and the customers of the quality model products generally already know or know where to find the info with out the manufacturers help. But some companies are starting to add this info in their advertising.
And, yes, before the flaming starts I am one of those "serious" modelers who looks down his nose at cheap ready to run train set rolling stock with one piece plastic axle/wheels and truck mounted couplers. In fact I have never operated, on my own layout, a freight car with truck mounted couplers, and the even the passenger cars I have owned over the years that came that way where quickly converted to body mount.
My rolling stock fleet is made up mostly of the following; Athearn, Roundhouse, Branchline, Proto 2000, Accurail, Bowser, F&C, Kadee, Intermountain and Walthers. bought new in the boxes which I still have so I know what they are.
With all this GOOD product out there, why waste you time on junk?
Sheldon
Please see "identifying trains"! Of course, we all know that a "train" is made up of many various engine(s) and car(s), so the writer evidently is referring to an individual part, so you have to, sort of, "read between the lines" and overlook his (our) apparent ignorance!!
THANX!!
DUH!! Ernie
Hendersonville, NC
Ernie,
A few more details about import law. Only the PACKAGE needs to identify the country of origin for things made outside the USA. So if it comes in a box, the box will say if it is made in China, Germany, Denmark, Japan or where ever.
The box also tells you who "marketed" it, not necessarly who made it. Just like stuff a Sears, it might be made here by XYZ, or imported, but it has Sears name on it because they sell it.
This is the way the world is, get over it. If you don't know what your "train" item is, post a picture, myself or some one on here will tell you.
Sheldon
Ernie,
You will pardon me. My professional life twisted and turned between army field atillery and teaching English. Inaccurate artillery kills the wrong people. Inaccurate teaching kills job skills.
That said, a lot of companies put their mark, stamped or not, on their cars. Accurail has its name on the underside as do/did a few others. Athearn can be seen by the strange coupler pocket cover, while MDC is the metal underside/frame. I could go on, but if you were to hand me ten cars representing American rail cars, I've got a bottle of LaTour '95 that I can correctly identify the maker of at least eight of them.
Sheldon, I do keep boxes now and have for years, but I do mix and match. Note taken that an assembled 50' Athearn box car doesn't fit in the blue box, but it does in an Accurail. Solution - switch boxes and label.
I've switched to inexpensive storage units which hold 11-12 cars each and store the boxes in the attic over the train barn.
Gene
Ernie: Your Bachmann trains are made in China.
NO!!! SAY IT ISN'T SO!!! MR. B!! TELL HIM THAT BACHMANN TRAINS ARE MADE IN PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!
We are talking about the second state of the union, preceeded only by Delaware, and followed by New Jersey!! December 12, 1787
Oh, the shame of it all !! To think that one of our own, a brother in this world of trains, should be so overtaken by his imagination! Surely, China has taken great strides and gained much in these recent years and months, but to think that they, EVEN THEY, could assume such demanding leadership as to MANUFACTURE and distribute to AMERICA a product of theirs, PROUDLY DISPLAYING THE B A C H M A N N NAME!!??? I don't THINK so!! Mr. B, set him straight!! Others of you , brothers and sisters, please, we are responsible that our brother should be led back into the fold! Who is responsible for this jibberish that he has so willfully partaken of? I'm so upset, distraught!I've got to turn off this computer and go lay down; I'm feeling so week. If I never post again, you know what happened, and I will meet you at that great "RAIL ROAD CROSSING" SIGN in the sky! For now, Ernie
Hendersonville, NC
ummmm .... bevernie, you still with us? :)
Take a deep breath and relax. Sit in a chair and brew yourself a cup of tension tamer tea to sip while you read this.;D
Okay ... you ready?
My son is the vice president of a company that mfg and markets 'add on products' for car makers ... US car makers, Japanese car makers, etc. ... all are cars sold in the US.
His work requires him to make trips to China because China just happens to be one of the 'major' producers of everything we Westerners seem to consume. They buy up the raw materials and so we go to them, because they are cheaper than having things made here in the US (I won't get into the 'why's of that ... but they are pretty obvious).
According to my son, in about 10-15 years, India will be replacing China as a major world manufacturer of just about everything, just as China seems to have replaced Japan.
China doesn't seem to have any real pretensions to mfg integrity. When my son is on his business trips, the secretaries in his company try to give him a big list of 'Gucchi' handbags, bottles of perfume, shoes, ... you name it ... all name brand, and VERY, VERY expensive stuff if purchased from stores that buy the 'real' mfg product (he says 'no' to all such requests).
They want the look, not the quality, and at a cheap price. You can buy 'Chinese made' Rolex or Brietling watches that 'look' like the real thing for $25.00 instead of 2500.00-5000.00 or more, here in the States (where they would be the real thing).
What I'm saying is, China makes everything...some leaglly under license and eveidently a lot of things, illiegally, slapping trademarks (without legal permission), etc. on cheap imitations that 'look' like that 'Sachs Fith Avenue' item, but in fact are made by kids working ridiculour labour hours at ridiculous labor prices in China to create 'illegal imitations'.
So, if Bachmann has determined to deal with China, and in the process you are getting the legal, real offically licsenced thing from Bachmann,though made in China (or made in 'lower Slobovia' for that matter), be happy with the quality and with the fact that at least Bachmann products say 'made in China', so they are truly authentic. And be happy they are repaired in the States. Think how long it would take to repair Bachmann stuff if it had to be sent back to China!
Unlike those cameras, handbags, watches, etc. that most 'normal' people can't afford to buy from the 'real' company, but for some strange reason are quite happy to purchase illegal imitations from China where the 'Rolex' name is put on the 'Chinese made watch' that just happens to have "Rolex" stamped on it, at least with Bachmann, you are getting the 'real item' and it's legal.
I'll take honesty anytime ... i.e. "Bachmann, made in China" over "Bachmann, USA", but in fact, illegally copied in China, and sold as the real USA made item".
Sorry, I didn't mean to 'preach' ... just think we have to accept the facts of life. At least those of us who aren't millionaires with unlimited hobby budgets.
The components for most current, high quality MRR equipment fromall the name brand companies (Bachmann, Atlas, etc) is probably NOT made in the good ole USA. If it were, you would be paying a lot more than your paying now.
Have fun ... maybe its best for your heart and emotional health to not look at labels at all :D Keep on 'trackin' :D
lanny nicolet
A friend who is a retired Naval officer told me that the US Navy may be having a destroyer built in Australia. I don't know if it's true but he has no reason to lie to me.
Years ago my neighbor bought an "American" Dodge minivan. It was American alright - North American. It has a big old Maple Leaf on the door frame. It was built in Ontario except for the parts labeled "Hecho In Mexico" and the electronics made in Indonesia.
I suggest people read Tom Friedman's book' "the World is Flat." It is an eye opener.
Sunday morning last, I ordered from a rather large music store, a Fender Stratocaster with Seymour Duncan pickups and electricals. The axe, to none of my surprise, was made in Korea. It plays as well as my old "pre-BS" 'strat", that some would probably kill for; and sounds tons better than it ever did.
Point of all of this? I am going to buy quality. If it is available here at a competitive prices, I will consider it. It is my money. I worked for it, I owe no one any allegence to that end. To add to that thesis, I am a Vietnam veteran, and further have earned the right to buy what I want, where I want, as long as it is not illegal to do so.
That India, or whomever, is going to become this or that means very little to me. I have made my money. They are no more going to dominate this country, or the world by that means than anyone else has done. You will never see any country do that! That you weep and wring youe hands over this bothers me not. If you wish to point fingers at this whole mess, point them at your friendly congressman, or other politician, who is probably in it for him/herself deeper than you can imagine. Integrity? Hah!!! Did Cheney do any military time? No? And who is Hallibuton? Well, then I rest my case, don't I?
Rich
To all,
I agree with Rich, I buy the best quality at the lowest price, I am a pure capitalist. I always weigh the demishing return of the very best products, they are often not worth the extra money, 5% better for 20% more cost.
I do not accept stereotypes like,
Stuff made in China is junk,
Japanese cars are better than American cars,
Buying American keeps jobs here,
Rich is also right about the feared effects of these things, first it is out of ANYONES control, there are too amny different forces at work, know one can predict thwe outcomes, so why worry about it?
Everytime I buy a Bachmann loco or Athearn freight car that says "Made in China", I remember these facts, the people in china need to eat too, better they earn it than to have the US send them aid and its not my fault American workers all think there worth a mint and that the US government taxes and regulates business right out of being competitive.
I decide how much of my money to spend on luxuries like model trains, then I shop to maximize the buying power of that money. I would much rather have 5 Bachmann 4-8-2's at $120.00 each than only have one $600.00 brass one
Sheldon
Quote from: Atlantic Central on May 26, 2007, 09:40:52 PM
I decide how much of my money to spend on luxuries like model trains, then I shop to maximize the buying power of that money. I would much rather have 5 Bachmann 4-8-2's at $120.00 each than only have one $600.00 brass one
Sheldon
I am in total agreement with this comment, (though there are times I wish I could afford brass!;D) as well as other points made by Sheldon and Rich.
lanny nicolet
Quote from: Atlantic Central on May 26, 2007, 09:40:52 PM
To all,
I agree with Rich, I buy the best quality at the lowest price, I am a pure capitalist. I always weigh the demishing return of the very best products, they are often not worth the extra money, 5% better for 20% more cost.
I do not accept stereotypes like,
Stuff made in China is junk,
Japanese cars are better than American cars,
Buying American keeps jobs here,
Rich is also right about the feared effects of these things, first it is out of ANYONES control, there are too amny different forces at work, know one can predict thwe outcomes, so why worry about it?
Everytime I buy a Bachmann loco or Athearn freight car that says "Made in China", I remember these facts, the people in china need to eat too, better they earn it than to have the US send them aid and its not my fault American workers all think there worth a mint and that the US government taxes and regulates business right out of being competitive.
I decide how much of my money to spend on luxuries like model trains, then I shop to maximize the buying power of that money. I would much rather have 5 Bachmann 4-8-2's at $120.00 each than only have one $600.00 brass one
Sheldon
WAIT A MINUTE!! I'm still not fully recuperated, but here we have PROOF POSITIVE that BACHMANN is NOT made in CHINA, for SHELDON has just said, "Stuff made in China is junk."!! Unless you want to call BACHMANN "JUNK", we are all expecting that you should apologize and reconsider that BACHMANN is made (manufactured and assembled) in PENNSYLVANIA, and NOT in CHINA!!!!!!!!
THANK YOU, Shelon, for proving my point!
Ernie
Hendersonville, NC
Read it again Ernie- slowly. Sheldon does NOT say what you said he says.
His words were-in fact the opposite- " I do not accept stereotypes like stuff made in China is junk."
That means, clearly, that some stuff made in China is in fact, not junk. I wish it were, as my manufacturing company competes with them on a daily basis. By the same token, we also buy from China, as I can get the same quality part from the Chinese at nearly HALF the price of my former USA supplier. As much as I want to buy American 100% of the time, my competition harbors no such sentiment, and I would be out of business very quickly if I did not adapt.
So, Matt, you are reiterating what Woody said, that my BACHMANN trains are, in fact, made in CHINA?? Oh, I feel a relapse coming on!! My nerves can't take much more! This is worse than driving my truck in downtown Atlanta, GA., during rush hour!! Now, there are TWO who actually think that BACHMANN is part of CHINA!! Somebody set them straight!!
Mr. B, PLEASE!!!! Tell them that PHILADELPHIA, PA. is still in the good ole U.S. of A.!! Something like this would happen on a holiday weekend, when there is no one who is recognized as an authority available to set the record straight before thousands, the world over, are misguided and taken by this absurd idea!! This is terrible!!!
Brothers and Sisters!!!! You who never post anything on this forum, please, tell these misguided ones the truth!! Lives are at stake!! What about the many souls who work for BACHMANN?? Should they get wind of this, they might think it GOSPEL, and think that they are now, by some strange miracle, actually in CHINA!!What would that do to our already confused roadways, when these employees get out intending to go back to the U.S.??
Oh, my nerves!! I can't take it!!
Ernie
Hendersonville, NC
Ernie,
Slow down and take the time to actually read the post rather than reading something into it that is not there.
I am not re-iterating anything. I merely stated that you were wrong- terribly wrong- in quoting Sheldon.
Matt
Ernie,
You are either being sarcastic, and doing it rather poorly, or you really need to invest in "Hooked on Phonics."
Sorry.
Gene
Ernie;
Understand first that what Sheldon says is his opinion-and as such is his right to say so. Besides, if you have strong opinions about the way the economics are structures, there is always the idea of you buying a used Bridgeport, acquiring some tooling skills, and making whatever yo uwant-right here in the good ole' US of A!
As I said earlier on, economics as it may have once been, shall never be able to be again; in short, no one country will ever have any market cornered. Cmdr Sam Deeley, Skipper of the submarine "Barb" once said, "Nothing is foolproof". Deeley was right.
Life has always been an issue of adaptation-of which humans possess a keen ability to do. We will muddle through here, I am sure.
RIch
Dear Ernie,
The Bachmann home offices are in Philadelphia, and the equipment is made in China.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Quote from: the Bach-man on May 27, 2007, 11:57:26 PM
Dear Ernie,
The Bachmann home offices are in Philadelphia, and the equipment is made in China.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Erine,
For the rest of the story… here are some reading assignments for you.
Bachmann company history â€" click http://www.bachmann.co.uk/home.php4 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/home.php4)
Note -- 1984, Kader acquired the Bachmann Company in its entirety
Info on Kader (located in Hong Kong) click -- http://www.bachmannindustries.com/ (http://www.bachmannindustries.com/)
Here is another reality for you -- Bachmann USA in headquartered in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The Bach-man does not work in Bachmann’s Headquarters. Further more he does not even live in Pennsylvania. That is but one reason why he advises all to contact the Service Dept, which is in Philadelphia, PA.
Ernie, What are you smokin? Send me some! lol
Quote from: the Bach-man on May 27, 2007, 11:57:26 PM
Dear Ernie,
The Bachmann home offices are in Philadelphia, and the equipment is made in China.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Bachmann...............I kinda think Ernie doesn't know how to have fun or could accept the value of fun if he did! This is the strangest post topic I've seen on any board!
Roger
Roger, Roger, over and out. I read the whole thread. Excuse me while I pick my lower jaw off the floor.
Bo
At least Cheney was trying to get work for Americans. :-)
To sum up:-
Bachmann is a Chinese owned company.
The offices in Philadelphia are those of Bachmann US
The offices of Bachmann UK ("makers" of the Branchline range)are in England.
Not sure where the offices of Bachmann Europe are sited; probably also in England seeing that Bach UK bought out some of the failing European makers along with the Graham Farish N gauge range.
Eric UK