New to DCC. I have two reverse loops. Will plan on auto reversers.
I will be isolating separate blocks, and each reverse loop will be isolated. My purpose for blocking is to identify sections in the event of a short..
Does the auto reversing wiring undo the isolation of the blocks on either side of the insulated track joiners?
One reverse loop is created by a single crossover leading into it. Can someone confirm for me that the insulating connectors go at the intersection of the turnout sections creating the crossover?
Hope this makes senseThanks in advance. Chris
Information on 'auto reverse units' is available on line that should help you.
http://tonysdcc.com/products/type_powerprotect.htm
http://digitrax.com/prd_powerman_ar1.php
http://www.lenz.com/products/index.htm
All have on-line or pdf manuals available.
If these do not help then let us know.
Good Evening,
One thing to remember is that only a certain portion of the whole reverse loop has to be controlled by the reversing module. This section is called the reversing section. This length of track should be longer than your longest train. I have found that it is a good practice to make the reversing section as short as possible so that more than one train can be in the reverse loop at the same time. Note I said ....in the reverse loop. You cannot have more than one train in the reversing section at the same time.
On my On30 railroad, the reverse loop I have is over 20 feet long but the reversing section is only approx. 10-12 feet long.
Quote from: Keusink on July 27, 2010, 03:00:25 PM
One reverse loop is created by a single crossover leading into it. Can someone confirm for me that the insulating connectors go at the intersection of the turnout sections creating the crossover?
Hope this makes senseThanks in advance. Chris
i assume that you have to go through this particular switch when entering and exiting this loop? if so, you can save yourself the cost of an autoreverser by powering this switch with a switch motor that has 2 sets of contacts. a tortoise, or an atlas snap relay will do the trick much cheaper than the cheapest auto reverser.
i will try to find a diagram of the wiring and post it. i know it's online somewhere but i can't find it right now.....
Jeffery, here is a diagram of what you were talking about:
(http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/loop/loop1.gif)
And the article it appears in is here:
http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/loop/loop.html (http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/loop/loop.html)
Bob, I believe you can have more than one train in a reverse loop at the same time. You just cannot have one entering at the same time the other one(s) is/are leaving. And it helps if the trains are going the same direction around the loop.
Jim
Dear All who responded:
My set will have a crossover, and a second track joins into the loop. Say, in Jim's diagram, there was another track creating the loop to the top of the diagram, with a crossover between parallel tracks. Without the crossover, it would be a loop, but not a reverse loop.
Since I will be creating power districts using multiple bus wires, I thought I would make the loop a power district. The loop has probably 12 linear feet in it. I wondered whether using an auto reverser would destroy the integrity of the loop power district?
I have already bought AR-1's, and the turnouts are to be operated by tortoise. As you can see, I have enough knowledge to be dangerous, but not enough to be competent. Nor will my computer skills allow me to draw it. Imagine two parallel tracks with a crossover. The north track loops back to the south track, and trains can use the crossover to choose the direction of travel around the loop by using the crossover or not using it. Do the insulating track joiners go in the middle of the crossover? Will the loop remain a separate power district with the AR-1?
Chris
Let me see if I understand what you have... You really just have half an oval with a cross over connecting from one side to the other? If this is the case Jims drawing will still work so long as the track discribed by you and not shown in Jims drawing is a dead end, if it connects to the existing track shown it would also need gaps to isolate it.
NM
Isn't the English language fun? I would liken this scenario to a dogbone with a single crossover in the middle. I use insulated joiners rather than gaps, but the question is: Do the gaps go in the crossover? Also. if I wanted to isolate each end of the dogbone into a separate power district, does the auto reverser (which wires to both sides of the gap) eliminate my isolated district?
Sorry to be so unclear about what I am asking.
Chris
If I understand your description, you need two sets of gaps. One set can be in the crossover, or it can be back away from the crossover. The other set needs to be at the other end of the reversing section, however far down the track that is. The reversing section doesn't have to be the entire loop, as others have noted, but it does need to be at least as long as your longest train. If you are dividing your dogbone into two power districts, one district must contain the reverse loop plus enough more track for the autoreverser to monitor, plus any other contiguous track you wish. The second district would be all the remaining track.. If you make the crossover a double crossover, we can all totally confuse ourselves and you too! LOL Actually, wiring a double crossover in a dogbone is not any harder than a single one.
Old Timer
First Prize to Oltimer! That's it! I'm so excited! Thank you.
I'll need that separate district, because most of the loop is under a mountain. Where I can't see it. So that is where the short will occur.
Guaranteed.
Chris
Keu-
Be sure to insulate or gap both rails on both ends of your reversing section. One rail is not enough.
-- D
Good grief... Why dint ya say it was a dog bone :P
Glad one of the guys could help ya
Dear Narrow
It isn't a dogbone. A dogbone is the closest thing to it. Its parallel tracks about 4 inches apart which create a loop, with a single crossover between the two tracks. I guess you could call it a really SKINNY dogbone
Now that we have the insulated gap and power section issues resolved, any suggestions on where the bus and feeders go on the reverse loop? I presume the buswire can come off a terminal busbar, and the feeders begin immediately after the first gap and end at the end of the loop?
I have the Kalmbach book on wiring, but it doesn't address more than a basic reverse loop.
Chris
feeders can go anywhere in a particular block/ power district. i'd place them about every 6 feet, with one at or near the center of the block.
basic reverse loop wiring is the same no matter what the configuration of the loop. just remember that every track which enters the loop section muct be insulated on BOTH rails.
What you have IS a basic reverse loop. If you think about it, gradually moving the two parallel tracks apart would pull the crossover apart and eventually result in an oval with one turnout on each side connected by a cutoff. The principle is the same, regardless of the shape of the reversing section.
The subject of placing feeders is rather "subjective." I think that most folks put feeders every 6 to 10 feet. You can make the bus by taking apart some 14 awg Romex and use 20 awg for the feeders. You can join the feeders to the bus with solderless "suitcase" connectors. Feeders can be connected to the track by soldering or by using terminal sections or rail joiners with feeders already attached--check the Atlas site. If you aren't familiar with soldering, it's not hard. The secrets are a hot, tinned tip on the iron, clean surfaces and rosin (NOT acid) flux. Good luck and good railroading.
OT
Oh my aching head.
Allan Gartner's
DCC site says do not attach the reverse loop to the main buss; only to the AR unit. He doesn't mention additional feeders or a sub-buss coming off a terminal strip. I am soldering the flextrack (Atlas code 83) because it will be under a mountain. Also, I have a power hoist to raise and lower the set from the garage ceiling, which stops somewhat abruptly so the set must be solidly built.
So, even though not mentioned, I can power the reverse loop with a sub-buss and feeders soldered to every section of flextrack? (using 12 g busswire, if it matters, with suitcase joiners to feeders).
Also, a british model railroad site says use SIX insulators for a single crossover and reverse loop (newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums on Wednesday Jan 14 2009), one set of insulators on the throughway, one set where the diverging ways join, and one set on the throughway of the parallel track.
I had the impression that I only needed FOUR, one set on crossover diverging track, and one set on the throughway at the end of the loop.
Sure wish an old linguist or an old techy initialed "JB" would set me straight.
Chris
Chris,
If you need to, you can run a sub-bus off the AR unit, but you probably don't need more than one set of connectors for the reversing section. The number of insulated rail joiners you need for the crossover depends on whether or not the turnouts are live frog or insulated frog. For insulated frog turnouts like Atlas Custom Line, for example, you don't need ANY insulated joiners for a crossover, as long as all the track is in the same block and the crossover does not create a reversing section.
Your requirement for two sets of insulated rail joiners is only for isolating the reverse section which is powered via the AR unit.
If you are using live frog turnouts, like Shinohara (not the Walthers-Shinohara DCC "friendly" pieces), all bets are off. Send me your track plan.
jbOT
OldTimer
Thanks for helping me. I have Walthers DCC friendly turnouts (#6) which appear to have insulated frogs.
I don't have technical skill to email the track plan. Can you give me a fax #?
My email is Keusink@charterinternet.com if you want to email a fax #.
Thank you so much.
Chris
To Jim Banner,
You are correct - you cannot have one train coming into the reverse loop while another is leaving, but......that is assuming that the entire loop is the reversing section. By having a reversing section smaller than the loop, you can then have multiple trains in the loop regardless of what direction you are running the trains.
Bob, I think we are both correct. I like making my reversing sections as long as possible because from time to time I get the urge to run long trains. I mean four or five locomotives and forty or fifty cars long. I know they look ridiculous, the locomotives pulling into one station even before the caboose has left the previous station. But I enjoy practicing the skill it takes to keep everything shinny side up and dirty side down while navigating my twisting, turning layout with its 4% grades and 18 inch curves. I like cresting a summit at full power and having to throttle back, way back, to keep things under control on the downhill trip, only to slowly open up again when the locomotives nears bottom and the train has to be stretched out to keep it from bunching up and derailing at an awkward spot where the grade and curvature both change at the same time. Doing the whole trip at dead slow is easy but this is a railroad and there are schedules to keep.
Jim
Throughout the years, ingenious railroaders devised all sorts of tactics to accomplish this. But every one of those methods revolved around something called "block wiring." In this technique, the railroad layout is divided up into separate electrical blocks, each of which controls only one locomotive. Called "cab control," a cab -- or throttle -- was then used to control each individual train. Arrays of various selector switches connect the blocks.
The best form of this method is called "progressive" cab control. One of the trains runs on the layout. The connection between the cab and the block is automatically changed from one block to the next using relays. The first block is then free for another train to use.