Alright Folks
Here I am, wiring DPDT toggles to tortoise. Problem is, I bought Salecom T80-T toggles. They have 9 posts on the underside for wiring. I wire corner posts diagonally, power in through outer posts on one end, wires to Tortoise from center posts. It doesn't work. Tested tortoise, which works fine. Most articles refer to a DPDT with six posts on the bottom. I gotta think a 9 post is wired differently.
Suggestions? Very frustrating after soldering all those diagonals.
The switch is a 3PDT, from your wiring descrpition, it appears you may have input/otput lead backwards'
Power should go to the center posts on outside row (center row of posts not used)
Output to one set of outer posts with the diagonals left as is.
Ken Clark
Thanks, Ken
Don't know how I got 3pdt when I ordered dpdt's. There are two "on" indicators, so I suspect there are two on positions.
Will using the 3pdt wired as described affect the tortoise motor or performance, do you know?
Gee, Ken. I just wired them per your suggestion, still didn't work. Bypassed the switch, and tortoise still works as it should. Double checked all the solder connections on the toggle, no shorts, everything solid. Can anybody help?
Does anyone have suggestions as to a source, brand, and part number for appropriate dpdt for tortoise? The part listed on Alan Gartner's DCC site is out of stock. Prefer mini=toggles.
Chris
A DPDT switch is pretty much a DPDT switch, unless it is momentary contact or center off. You need to know that internally, toggle switches may work differently than you imagine. Think about a DPDT switch standing vertically in front of you with the toggle facing you. Push the toggle UP. You have now connected the center posts to the LOWER posts. Push the toggle DOWN and you will connect the center posts to the UPPER ones. Think about a rod on an axle. As I push one end up or down, the other end moves the opposite direction. Hope this helps.
OldTimer
Good Morning Oldtimer. good to hear from you again
I figured that one out already, because in my frustration I dismantled one of the darn things. The toggle pushed two internal rocker arms down on the opposite side of the toggle. However, they parallel, but do not cross, the outside center poles. I can see how the juice goes into the unit, but do not see how it leaves for the tortoise
There are actually 11 different models of the Salecom T80-T toggle switch, each with their own number.
Assuming you have the model T8301 3PDT Straight Type, lay it on a table with the terminal lugs facing you, and oriented so if you look down on the switch you're looking through the holes in the lugs.
For point of reference, not because they are actually numbered that way, think of the lugs as being numbered from top to bottom, left to right, as:
1--4--7
2--5--8
3--6--9
Row 2--5--8 is the common row, equivelent to the center contacts on a DPDT switch.
When you throw the switch one way, you're using rows 1--4--7 an 2--5--8. Throw it the other way and you're using rows 3--6--9 and 2--5--8.
To wire it as a reversing switch ignore contacts 1/2/3 or 7/8/9 and wire the remaining contacts the same as a DPDT. For example, ignoring contacts 7/8/9, connect 1-to-6, 3-to-4, power in to 3 and 6, track to 2 and 5. Lugs 7/8/9 should have nothing connected to them unless your going to use them for controlling indicator lights/LEDs.
Len
This might seem like a stupid concern, but I'm just exploring all possibilities to help make your setup work:
In addition to the great advice and technical information given above, are your electrical switches 'maintained contact' types? In other words, does the switch handle stay in the selected position or does it return to the center position when released? The Tortoise Switch Machines require maintained contact switches to operate properly. Most folks use a DPDT maintained contact with no center 'off' position to control Tortoise Machines.
They will appear to work with a DPDT (or 3PDT) maintained contact switch with a center off position, but if the center off position is selected (either accidently or on purpose), there is no power on the switch machine, thus defeating the self-holding capability of the Tortoise Machine. And, if your electrical switch is the type that is spring loaded to the center off position, the Tortoise Machines will move only while you are holding the switch in the selected direction, but they will not positively remain in the selected position. They require constant power on one of the coils to work properly.
Hope this helps.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
If the switch is the model T8301 3PDT Straight Type then it is a straight ON-OFF-ON (Center Off) type switch. Throwing to either side creates a constant on condition until the switch is moved to the center off position. It it's a different model, the manufacturers web site would have to be checked for the particulars on that switch.
Len
Gents
The turnouts are Walthers "DCC Friendly", so that there is no tension applied to the rails except through the tortoise.
The manufacturer is a chinese establishment, their website is no help, the website does not appear to recognize American email addresses, and I do not speak Mandarin.
The toggle has no numbers, just T80-T.
I have also read recently that the internal tension of the tortoise is sufficient to keep turnout rails in position even without power,
I will check Len's wiring suggestions tonight or this weekend. Please keep an eye out for me, and I will let you know the results.
Does anyone have recommendations for a brand and part number for mini DPDT that will work best with tortoise if Len's wiring does not work and I need to buy new toggles? Do I need to worry about momentary pulse v continuous current with this apparently 3Pdt toggle?
Thanks for your help and attention. This stuff is beyond my capabilities.
Chris
PS
The toggle stays in one place, and does not flip into an intermediate position.
Chris
I've always had good luck with parts from Radio Shack. If you don't have a store close by, you can shop at radioshack.com. They have lots of switches that would work for you--slide and toggle.
OldTimer
Miniatronics also makes several SPDT and DPDT toggle switches. If your LHS doesn't carry them, you can order them through Walthers (mfg code 475) and Horizon Hobby (mfg code MNT).
Len
Hi a picture is worth a billion words when it comes to wiring, my crude drawing shows a 3pdt switch. The lever is thrown up which means the center three terminals and the bottom three are closed which means currant will flow though them up and down, but sideways there should be no connection. The first unused row can be left for something else if you like.
If you wire your switch and machine as shown it will work as follows
switch at center position no movement no power to machine.
switch up direction 1
switch down direction 2
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/NarrowmindedRR/1286594333.jpg)
Thanks all. I tried the 3pdt wiring suggested by several of you, but it still didn't work. I broke down and bought some Radio Shack DPDTs, and they work fine. Just had to do all that mini wiring again. Don't know why your suggestions did not succeed, but maybe there is more than one design of 3 pole.
Anyway, things work beautifully with the dpdts, and I thank you all for replying.
Chris
Don't throw those 3pdt switches out. I think I found the problem.
I went to the Salecom website and downloaded the PDF for your switch.
It shows the 3 common (center) terminals as being the horizontal center lugs,
not the vertical ones.
You can see it here http://www.salecom.com.tw/prodpreview.asp?PDno=PD0001&prdClassNo=001&Source=Products.asp (http://www.salecom.com.tw/prodpreview.asp?PDno=PD0001&prdClassNo=001&Source=Products.asp) but you'll have to download the PDF to get a good picture.
I tried to attach a 50 KB photo but it said the file was full.
Buy a cheap digital multimeter. They come with basic instructions and will do the job if you read and follow the instructions. You can use the ohms part of the meter for continuity checks.
You can pickup new cheap meters for about $10..00 on ebay and Harbor Freight. I have three of these and are the same basic types and have served me well some for years.
Rich
Here is what I and many others use for model railroad electrical. You can also use it to make sure you have DCC voltage to the track when locos will not run. Three meters that I have show about 13.8 volts AC.
There is no good reason why every model railroad user cannot have one of these meters.
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html
Rich
Except for the pin numbers, the Salescom diagram shows what I said. With the switch laying so when you look down on the pins you are looking through the holes (lugs oriented horizontally) the center row of lugs is the common row.
I used pin numbers going:
1--4--7
2--5--8
3--6--9
And the Salescom diagram uses:
9--6--3
8--5--2
7--4--1
But either way, the center lugs (2--5--8 or 8--5--2) are the common lugs and, unless there was damage to the switch from earlier wiring attempts, the connections I suggested should have worked. Strange.
Len
Len, that was my thought when reading all the trouble, perhaps the little plastic toggle mechanism melted from too much heat.
I like to use alligator clips for heat sinks on items like micro switches.
NM
Quote from: NarrowMinded on October 11, 2010, 10:36:22 PM
Len, that was my thought when reading all the trouble, perhaps the little plastic toggle mechanism melted from too much heat.
I like to use alligator clips for heat sinks on items like micro switches.
NM
For man years I have soldered and unsoldered wires from switches with no issues.
The last few years I have noticed that switches I have bought off of ebay have a plastic insulator that does not take much heat to soften the plastic and move the switch contact out of position.
You have to be aware of this issue and be careful with the soldering iron. I have not lost a switch yet but did have a couple close calls.
Rich
Nope. Didn't melt anything. Also, dismantled one after soldering to see if that had happened. Also, tried two toggles in case one was defective. Neither worked even though wired as Len suggested.
A plague on all their houses! I am sticking with Radioshack on these puppies. Thank you all.
Chris
Good for you, Chris. Glad you got 'em working.
Jim
radio shack to the rescue again
I got question for those who like math.
With 9 posts for the DPDT switches,,
How many different possible WRONG ways are there to wire this rig up? ;D
There's one... They way it doesn't work.
Really 3,486,784,400 that's not counting the jumpers needed to reverse the polarity.
NM