Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: mf5117 on November 28, 2010, 08:36:36 PM



Title: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on November 28, 2010, 08:36:36 PM
Was looking and trying to get some ideas for building scratch built Timber Trustles . And came across this template . Having a hard time figuring size and scale . Image said large scale Trustle template and was wondering if it was pretty close .

Redards :Mark f

(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/gtrustle.jpg)


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Doneldon on November 29, 2010, 04:01:43 AM
5117-

This trestle is a little more than 14" high, depending on how high the first cross member is above the ground .  Its height in scale will depend on the scale you use.  Forexample, it would be about 39' in 1:32 scale (the "smallest" large scale), about 30" tall in 1:24 (Marklin) and about 28' in 1:20.3 (narrow gauge). I've rounded these numbers to the nearest whole foot.  You can figure them out exactly by multiplying the actual height of the trestle from ground to top of top cross member by the scale you are using, one of the above or one of the many other large scales which people use.

Good luck with your modeling.
                                                                                                                                               -- D



Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: glennk28 on November 29, 2010, 09:22:43 PM
Black Bear  Construction makes plexiglas jigs for building trestles in several  scales--you might try them for what they may have.  gj


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Nathan on November 29, 2010, 10:21:46 PM
I have used the Black Bear jigs in several scales, well worth the money.


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on November 29, 2010, 10:41:52 PM
Thanks for the info I will look for a link on them . I have a couple of friends that work at a water plant and have some access to some ruff redwood ,I was looking at using . In the post and picture ,I was going to cut them to length from the top down for height .don't really need but 8 to 10 inches . Then either give them a basting of paint and sealer or use the redwood ,but I dont really want to use brads due to they rust and then fall apart ove time I figured . I wish there was a way to mortis and tinnen them . But I would be until 2015 building them .


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Sleeping Bear on November 30, 2010, 12:19:26 AM
 liquid nails my man...liquid nails....Later all S.B.


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Kevin Strong on November 30, 2010, 01:45:36 AM
The brads (from an air-powered brad nailer) rust, but they don't fall out. (Neither do Atlas track nails.) In fact, the rust does a fair job of holding them in place. (The liquid nails or Titebond II wood glue helps as well.) I use Titebond II and a small air-powered pin nailer. The pins are smaller than brads, but don't have heads so they don't show up. The pins I use are copper (or copper coated), so they don't rust.

Later,

K


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Doneldon on December 01, 2010, 03:19:54 AM
5117-

You can use the ratios in my previous post to obtain the exact s
izes you need.  Also, consider stainless steel nails.  They are
expensive but they'll stand up to the weather for just about forever.
 
                                                                               -- D


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on December 01, 2010, 08:52:27 AM
After looking at the Black Bear site all I saw was Z.N.HO,S and O .And also said they have stop construction .Unless I missed something I didn't see where they made G or Large scale jigs or template's . Could you give me a link if there is another .

regards: mark f    5117



Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: StanAmes on December 01, 2010, 09:26:41 AM
A good site for desiging and building trestles is

http://members.cox.net/sn3nut/trestles%20part%201.htm

We purched a pinner and use stainless steel pins.  Use it along with Titebond 3 to build our wood bridges.

We build Jigs as we need them.

Works very well.

Stan Ames


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on December 01, 2010, 03:43:04 PM
I have had minor issues with Titebond II, but trestles constructed with Titebond III have held up best.  I cut all my lumber on my table saw, and use the special "black" ashphalt besed fence paint available at Tractor  Supply Stores.  It is like creosote, and looks ok, unless you like the look of natural wood.


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: smcgill on December 03, 2010, 08:06:19 AM
Cedar / type bond III / pin brads are the way to go!  ::)
I cut up old cedar fencing ( free )   ::) ::)
Thompson waterseal was used @ one point but the newer versions it was not used on, no diff. noticed!
Sean


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: JerryB on December 03, 2010, 11:32:55 AM
I do essentially the same: Redwood, Titebond III, and 23ga. pins driven using a Grex brand pneumatic pinner.

I get scrap redwood (free) from a local lath mill. I also cut up salvaged material. Small, tight grain is preferable.

Titebond II is only 'water resistant.' Titebond III is 'water proof.'

I use the regular steel pins. They rust when in place, which increases their holding power. Stainless steel pins don't have as much 'grip' in the wood. In actuality, the pins only hold the joint while the glue dries. The glue is what keeps the joint together over the years.

Some of my retaining wall cribbing and trestle bents have been in place around 20 years. Can't remember a failure.

Happy (well joined) RRing,

Jerry


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: artkent on December 05, 2010, 04:00:10 PM
For some good info on Trestles go to the "RGS Technical Page" and click on Vol 1,#1 Bridges.  Also other good info there.
Art


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: willis on December 05, 2010, 10:30:24 PM
mf5117
check with www.trainbuildings.com, Michael Neibaum is a real nice guy to deal with.
he has jigs for any size trestle and cedar wood of any sizes needed.
he has building material also.
willis.


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on December 05, 2010, 10:59:43 PM
Thanks for all the replies you have gave me some good idea's ,and a little more knowledge . I will start these after the holidays . In the mean time will be gathering up material . I had to laugh , the redwood I was offered is 2x12x10ft . And I thought to myself , how bad do I really want trestle's .Cutting planing sizing . I really want to stay with the round  creosote look  .


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: smcgill on December 06, 2010, 07:48:50 AM
To some the cutting /planing /sizing is the fun stuff!!! ;)
Keep us informed and pics!! 8)
Sean


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on December 06, 2010, 05:01:02 PM
on my saw half that would end up as sawdust,  ;D but I still do it once a year I use cedar, and treated lumber, and would love to have that piece of redwood you have!! :)


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: jsmvmd on December 08, 2010, 12:43:49 PM
Dear Friends,

Has anyone tried using balsa wood for a trestle project ?  It seems to me the structure would be strong enough to handle any reasonable weight if properly engineered.  Too, it would be easier to work with.  Notwithstanding, I do love a good piece of wood.  Never having tried redwood, does it cut nicely ?  Worked construction in south Jersey many moons ago, and the local wood was cured hemlock, full cut.  What a marvelous wood, easy to work with, nails drive like into butter, holds like iron.

Thanks and best wishes,

Jack


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: smcgill on December 08, 2010, 02:38:30 PM
Has anyone tried using balsa wood for a trestle project ? 
Jack
If you are talking inside by all means!!  BUT
I do believe basla wood would suck up to much water! Rot will follow. Cedar or any rot resistance  wood should work better. Cedar is soft and is easy to cut and nail.
Just my findings.
Sean


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Doneldon on December 08, 2010, 04:23:14 PM
js...

I wouldn't use balsa, even inside.  Yes, it's strong enough to support
the weight but it isn't strong enough to survive any handling, bumps
while correcting a derailment, etc.  I suggest basswood for indoors as
it has the strength, is easy to work with, and is inexpensive.  For
outdoors I'd use cedar, heart redwood (muy expensivo!) or pressure
treated wood.
                                                             -- D


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: jsmvmd on December 10, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
Dear Don,

Yours is the better suggestion !  I forgot how nice basswood is.

Best Wishes,

Jack


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on January 09, 2011, 08:44:23 PM
Was making an attempt today to get some experience making my trestles . Still need to put the top runners on under the tie's .And I guess what you would call rung's between the tie's "please correct me I may be wrong . This is just a test to give me an idea of what I'm up against . Can't wait to start building .Just picked up some dowel and sq stock just to see how it would look . I made these small ones off the template at the start of this thread ... any comments will help . By no means is this finished just a test got about 45 larger ones to build .  mf5117

(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/21.jpg)(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/22.jpg)







Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Doneldon on January 09, 2011, 09:04:16 PM
mf5117-

Well I'm impressed!!

               -- D


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on January 10, 2011, 08:53:33 PM
More progress on my test trestle
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/trestle2.jpg)
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/trestle12.jpg)
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/trestle3.jpg)

these are the 6 I built sunday .going to make 3ft sections . the next one i'm going to make will be 1/4 of a 6ft rad . circle   
regards : mf5117


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: on30gn15 on January 10, 2011, 11:54:29 PM
This is just a test to give me an idea of what I'm up against .

Looking like pretty fair "test results"  :)


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: jsmvmd on January 11, 2011, 06:39:04 PM
Dear Mark,

Impressive !  Did you say you are building this for outside application ?  How do you plan to affix the track ?  If in a warm climate, do you anticipate problems with track expansion and contraction ?

Best Wishes,

Jack


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on January 11, 2011, 10:02:37 PM
For some good info on Trestles go to the "RGS Technical Page" and click on Vol 1,#1 Bridges.  Also other good info there.
Art

I did some research on this link Art turned me on to . I'm going to lay the stringers down directly under center of the rails on top of the bolts like the illustration shows . Then between each tie I will put a rung as I call them . Then a guard rail just outside the tie's on each side of the tie's . Going to build 8 more of these 3 ft sections and 4 that graduate into a 6 ft rad. then back to straight  then 2 1/4 sections of an 8ft rad . I'm going to at 1st let the track free float inbetween the guard rails . To join the sections together , I left equal distance "they are symmetrical about center " We have a sheet metal brake and going to use copper shim stock . Will break it to 1/4 inside dimensions channel shape to fit the stringer ,kinda like a rail joiner  , drill 2 holes and use .035 welding wire for the pins to join them together and also for easy removal . I think and feel I can get these all built in a month or so .Haven't decided the finish .Thought of a garden sprayer and some sort of stain and soak them 3 to 5 coats .

     We do get alot of humidity and rain here .I will let it free float for now . But what I have is pretty unique, and so far no derailments ever and that's hard to say but true and everthing has run smoothly for being a beginner in G Scale . I will keep pictures of my progress and by all mean please feel free to make suggestions if you see something that might  make or break me ....

best regards:  MF5117 RR


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on January 26, 2011, 11:10:23 PM
Just an update .I've built 3 more of the 3ft sections I have posted on this thread . I'm working on the 1st curved section . I'm having a hard time with the miters on the stringers on top of the bents .As every 6 inches as with the others  each stringer has to mitered and brad nailed into the girt . And splits in the wood  are giving me a problem . I thought about gluing them , but I'm not sure they will hold up being glued due to the  elements being outdoors .

 I've also started a girder bridge that will be 6ft long and can't wait to get it finished and get pictures posted in a week or so .  Who say's you can't do it ,you just have to do it and each time it gets better and better ....

regards mf5117


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Sleeping Bear on January 27, 2011, 12:53:46 AM
  Drilling pilot holes for the brads may eliminate some of the splitting issues. Tite Bond or liquid nails should hold up pretty good for a while at least, and if you drill pilots and nail them as well   then one would think you'd be covered on both sides. If the pilot holes raise questions as to strength, epoxy the brads and set them by hand. Don't mean to make you more work .....just hope it helps......Later All .......S.B.


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: Doneldon on January 27, 2011, 04:33:29 AM
5117-

Pilot holes are a good idea. You can also use small cut nails which will not
split the wood when they are driven. I don't know, however, how available
they are in small enough sizes. I do know that many finish carpenters use
them to atttach wood trim around doors and windows.
                                                                              -- D


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on February 27, 2011, 06:15:15 PM
Starting a small girder bridge .Is not done yet I just was looking to see how it's going to look . I have to make the bents for it and tie the rail stringers and cross members hope you all like it . for the first one it has turned out ok . Not completley satisfied with it ,but E for effort .saw some things I should have done different .
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/b4.jpg)
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/b3.jpg)(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/b1.jpg)
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/b2.jpg)

regards mark f MF5117




Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on March 13, 2011, 06:22:02 PM
added cross members, abutment , lower bridge frame
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/p_00102.jpg)
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/p_00103.jpg)
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/mf5117/p_00104.jpg)

hope you like !!! getting closer


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: tlnibert on March 28, 2011, 09:54:52 PM
I liked the plans that gardentexture.com has.
Glue and nail. You can drill holes and glue small dowel rods in the bents.
Tom


Title: Re: Timber Trestle
Post by: mf5117 on March 28, 2011, 10:23:17 PM
on the bridge , I did drill pilot holes and cut the brads apart and glued  and hand nailed them .I finished the bridge 2 weeks ago and soak it in oil . Put it in one of our Autoclaves with dry heat at work to dry it out and painted 3 coats of Hammered Brown Paint . and it actually looks like rusted laminated iron . they sell it at home depot , I think it looks great . I've got alot of good comments from a few people who have seen it  . Scratch building a water tower while I work on my base and finishing planning the layout just layed some pavers down this weekend so I could run my trains and get a better look at what I need to do . I was looking at going with the pavers but leaning more and more to the lime stone that has been suggested for the ballest.