hi,
i am in the process of replacing the plastic wheels on my ho train cars, i was told at a train show that micro mark has a tool that is used to ream the pointed axel hole out to remove burrs ect. do you know about this tool and what it is called, please help.
I call it a truck reamer. Reboxx sells them, too. Since you are going from plastic to metal, it's a good idea to ream the trucks as well.
Gene
Please tell me, since I am on a limited budget, is it really that necessary to change from plastic to metal? What are the proes and cons?
THANX!!
Ernie
Hendersonville, NC
To add a little to Gene's good advice:
Micro Mark 'Truck tuner' seems to me, to be a bit longer than the Reboxx 'tool'. I have one of each because, depending on the particular brand delrin/plastic truck, one of the two will work better. The will cost you around $10.00 a piece and are well worth having both of them.
Experts on the forum have a variety of 'favorite' metal wheel, axel sets so I am only suggesting what I personally like, not 'what is best'.
My layout is code #100 DC/Analog power and has a couple brutally steep (2.7 - 3.3% grades), so I need very free rolling freight and passenger cars.
Besides 'reaming' every truck before it touches my layout, I also add either 33" or 36" Intermountain metal wheel/axels that are called 'semi scale' (depending on the kind of car and its age, etc.). This combination increases the rolling distance of any given piece of rolling stock I use on my layout by 300% (i.e., the car will roll three times as far as before) as well as significantly increasing the number of cars on locomotive can haul up my brutal grades without double heading power.
I 'think' that Intermountain has three basic 'widths' of wheels. Standard which have the widest tread, 'semi-scale' which are narrower (I use these), and full scale width. Perhaps others can give clearer information on this.
I might add that there are other good metal wheel axle sets made by different companies, so you may find some that you like better than Intermountain.
lanny nicolet
Hi Ernie,
Here's my personal thoughts on your question. I don't think anyone 'has' to do anything like this if they don't want to, and you are right, it is a 'hit' in the budget. I get my Intermountain wheel sets through my LHS in boxes of 100 (enough for 25 cars) at $55.00 per 100, so that can add up pretty fast.
If you are satisfied with the way your cars 'roll', and your track work is well laid without really steep curves, and you are satisfied with consists that aren't 20-30 cars long, AND you regularly clean both your track and your car wheels with alcohol, I would think you could get along fine.
For me, because my track work is not 'perfect' and because I sometimes like to see 30+ car coal drags running on my layout, I find the extra expense has been worth it. Being retired and on a fixed income, does inhibit the number of pieces of rolling stock I use, however :D
lanny nicolet
Ernie,
Waht Lannie says is correct. Metal wheels add weight down low, where it's needed and, for some reason, don't collect dirt as easily as plastic. They also actually go "clickety-clack"! They help with long trains, especially on layouts with tight turns and steep grades. But they aren't a necessity.
Gene
Color me "cheapskate", but I don't like buying tools I can make. This is my crude method of saving money.
I understand the angle of the bearing is 60 degree. When I saw the pic of the Reboxx reamer, I started checking my tool box. I have a lot of phillips screwdrivers in all sizes, not quite the same angle, but a light grinding with a dremel fixes that. I cut off the tip the right length, then ground the cutoff end to a smooth 60 degree cone and slipped on a piece of aircraft tubing for a grip. I think the term "reamer" is not correct, as I don't want to actually take off material, just smooth and polish.
Dremel makes cone shaped felt wheels. With a little rouge a few twirls of the thumb really polishes the bearing. As for the axle, you can chuck it into a dremel, then use a leather rouge board (strop) to polish the tips. (Also use the "strop" to sharpen exacto blades) If you don't have a rouge board just glue a small piece of tooling cowhide to a board, wet the leather a little, then rub with a dremel rouge stick.
Bo
Good Morning All,
There is a lot of good advice here. The best comment made was that there is nothing you really have to do in this hobby.
For me, I go to the expense of replacing not only the wheel sets but also the trucks. I use the sprung trucks from E&B, at one time the Lindberg line. I put Intermountain wheel sets in with no reaming. As a matter of fact, I have never reamed any truck side frame I have ever owned. My basic reasoning for the change of trucks is that I feel the sprung trucks track better over imperfect track work. My home layout is all Peco turnouts and Atlas flex track. But, when I go to the club we run on handlaid track and turnouts. That is where I really begin to appreciate my sprung trucks.
As for the Intermountain wheels....I like fact that they are all metal including the axles. This does give weight but more importantly, the metal wheel, regardless of manufacturer does not get cruded up like the plastic wheels do because of static electricity and are much easier to clean and you will not damage the wheel surface like you can if you are not careful with plastic wheels.
Bob
Bo,
Thanks for some really excellent ideas. Wish I were mechanically minded to be able to figure things like that out.
RE your comment about not wanting to 'take off material, but just smooth and polish'. I have found (in my experience) that the reamer is more of a 'deburring' tool ... but I have run into a variety of mfg. trucks that actually had material in the axle holes that severely inhibited rolling quality. The reamer removes that kind of excess while keeping the angle correct (60 degree) and smoothing out the hole.
Your idea about polishing is a very good one ... properly done the way you describe it, makes it sound as though we could coax even more rolling distance from our rolling stock, especially if fitted with metal wheel/axle sets.
lanny nicolet
I think lanny meant to say the use of the tuner and metal wheels reduce the rolling resistance 300% so it does roll easier, and I agree on the reducing, but I have not seen that great a change.
You do not have to use metal wheels, but plastic does seem to crud up a lot faster, and I have found they are also frequently out of round. I got a 4 car set from Roundhouse and 75% of the wheels were bad out of the box, I called them and they already knew there was an issue, and were quite happy to send me replacements and extras. I have never had a problem with KD or Intermountain wheels, but I just like IM better, probably because of the more machined look and all metal.
Bo,
With the right tools, all kinds of things can be made. I have two reamers, one i bought the other was made for me by a club member with a complete machine shop in his apartment. I tokd him he should make more and sell them. Perhaps you should do the same. :D
Gene
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I want to just give up and sell out! First, it was time- I never seem to have enough! Then, it was couplers- mine (horn-hook) have to be replaced. Now, it's wheels AND trucks!! I just wish I could find someone who could tell me what my stuff is worth (it's getting less every day!!) and make a serious offer!
(828)696-2112
THANX!!
Ernie
Hendersonville, NC
Ernie: Here's my two cents worth as a newbie who has replaced some of the plastic wheels.
1. The rolling friction became so minimal that I now have to worry about my layout being totally level! Especially near the uncoupler magnet!
2. I should have made sure the axles were non-magnetic.
3. With metal wheels I have to ensure the uncoupler magnet is perfectly centred between the rails.
My vote is for KISS approach - keep it simple. If it works but it ain't perfect how much time and money do you want to spend!!??
Just my thoughts...
Derek
Actually, Derek, you've just added to my perpexity! I've really gotten depressed as a result of not having enough time, but the things that I need to change are adding to my delimma! I'm just ready to sell my "stuff"!
THANX!!
Ernie
Hendersonville, NC
Sorry about that Ernie.
Time is one thing I haven't been able to find for sale on ebay or at my local hobby store! I must say this hobby is quite a pursuit. And thank goodness for all the dedicated people on this site and others that have helped me through the learning curve. They have saved me tons of time and money.
Derek
Ernie,
I don't know you, or how old you are, or your personal situation, or what your skills and tallents are, so the following is not ment to criticize or offend.
You seem to have ideas of instant gratification, simple answers to complex problems and a somewhat naive view of the world. I base this on your comments here and on other threads you have posted before.
To assume that all brands of trains would be of equal quality would be like assuming that about anything else in the world - the world is just not that way, and thank goodness it is not.
There are no "quality police" making sure every purchase Ernie makes is a wise one, Ernie needs to get wise on his own.
This hobby has changed and actually gotten easier in many ways, BUT, it is still a hobby for the patient, skilled, curious, willing to quietly watch and learn from the master, willing to keep trying until he gets it, kind of person.
It is not a hobby for the cell phone while driving, hyperactive, give it to me now, plug and play, video game playing, why is this taking so long, kind of person.
Not everybody is suited to everything, I'm lousy at sports for example.
AND, if your current personal situation does not give you time, quiet, quality time in reasonably large enough blocks to focus on the necessary steps of the hobby, then it is unlikely that you will find it enjoyable or rewarding.
This is not meant to imply that the hobby cannot be enjoyed at different levels or to different degrees, it can. But you need realistic expectations of what you can acomplish with your time and resources. AND, taking time to learn how the hobby works so you can set those realistic goals is part of that.
If, you bought a lot of stuff because the price was low, well, most times that old saying is true - you get what you pay for. The price was low for a reason. And now you find out it is not of good quality and you are frustrated. That goes back to the being in a hurry thing. Many people make big mistakes in life by being in a hurry and not knowing what they are getting into.
So, Ernie, take a deep breath, think about what you like and dislike about model trains, honestly consider your resources of time and money, realisticly consider what you would like to get from this hobby. Then, slow down and set about a plan to learn what you need to know and work toward those goals OR, if all that sounds like work, not fun, send me list of what you have and I will see if I am interested.
Sheldon
Ernie,
Sheldon is right. This is a hobby that takes time to learn, depending on what level you want to atempt. For instance, while I read every article on how to scratchbuild a brass steam locomotve, you won;'t find me going that way. I may build another Bowser, but that's about it.
I'm fairly convinced that I made a mistake in jumping from a 4x8 to a 26x17. I should have taken part of the space available, and built something lke an "L" shaped corner layout, abut ten feet on the side, knowing I'd rip it down about as soon as it was finished and then gone to work on the magnum opus. But I didn't and I'm learning. My soldering is now much better, and my grades seem in line with what they should be. It will dtake awhile. But it will be worth it in the end.
Gene
A few more thoughts here,
Like ebtbob, I prefer sprung, equalized trucks because my experiance has shown them to work better. My truck of choice is the Kadee metal one with Intermountain wheels, but for some applications I also use the E&B trucks with Intermountain wheels as ebtbob mentioned. Both these combinations are very free rolling and track very well.
Call them the Rolls Royce of HO trucks if you will. Not everyone needs the Rolls Royce, we are just sharing our experiance and opinions. Both are somewhat expensive choices, but in the words of a speed shop owner I once knew, "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go". Quality and performance usually cost money too and everyone must find their own balance and comfort zone on these things.
Gene,
You may have jumped in the deep end, but you are the kind of person who will not give up, so you will prevail, and, as you said it will be worth it. In fact it may be even more rewarding in the end to have been so "brave". Life is short, get in the game!
Ernie,
Like Gene said about scratch building a loco, I personally may or may not have those skills, but even if I do, or could develope them, that does not interest me. It would for one thing invest too much time in one aspect of the hobby when I have broader goals I wish to accomplish. So I make compromises and use locos I can buy or build from kits. To reach my goal of building and operating a fairly large layout, I even limit the number of loco kits or advanced rolling stock kits I will consider to fill my roster needs.
And, the way I model now is not the same as it was 20 or 30 years ago. My interests have changed, narrowed, and ajusted to a version of the hobby I find fun, not what someone else says I should be doing. Example - My lack of interest in sound equiped locos or DCC.
So if your trains stay on the track, and run the way you want them to and you are having fun, you are fine. Yes there is lots to learn and lots of choices but it is not about right and wrong choices (with the possible exception of actually making stuff work), it is about doing what you find fun.
And for most of us, there is fun in the learning. Even after nearly 40 years, I may know a lot about this stuff, but I don't know it all by any means. Thats why I keep doing it, to learn more.
Sheldon
Quote from: Virginian on June 13, 2007, 10:07:09 AM
I think lanny meant to say the use of the tuner and metal wheels reduce the rolling resistance 300% so it does roll easier, and I agree on the reducing, but I have not seen that great a change.
Thanks for that clarification, Virginian. I am not very adept at math or such :) and perhaps overstated myself'. Here is what I meant. Taking any given piece of rolling stock and setting at the top of one of my long 2.7% grades, I release it and let it free roll, marking where it stops. Then I 'truck tune' with the Reboxx or Micro Mark, and add the Intermountain metal semi scale wheels.
I again place the piece of rolling stock exactly in the same starting location and release it. The distance it travels has been as great as 3 times the former distance. i.e. ... if it traveled 5 feet originally, some cars will now free roll 14-15 feet on that same test section, after doctoring. I have really been amazed at the difference.
I don't want to overstate the free rolling distance and I realize this is not a very scientific way to test. Not every car attains this distance. I apologize for overstating. I probably should have said that the 'best' is a 3 times longer rolling distance. The 'average' is maybe more like twice the distance ... but it is always significantly longer.
I don't know what that means in 'percentage of resistance' ... but what you pointed out sounds reasonable to this 'unscientific' person :).
Weight evidently has a lot to do with distance traveled. Branchline Blueprint kits that I have built have two heavy bolts for weights. Those cars, when completed, really roll well. Some of my other lighter weight cars don't do quite as well.
lanny nicolet
Lanny, weight can be good. In the early days of our actually fighting in WWII, the AVG, flying P-40s, had superiority over the Japanese flying A6M-5 Zeroes because the Japanese pilots tried to dive away, instead of climbing. Had they climbed, the kill ratio would probably been opposite.
Gene
Hi Gene
Since I live in a very remote area, I often have to improvise. The closest hobby/train store is over 200 miles. But if I figured in my time, electricity to run the lathe, etc. I probably don't save by making tools. I too have occasionally made a tool for a friend, but to sell them? Thanks, but everytime I turn a hobby into a business, the fun goes away.
I have no doubt the rolling can be improved, I have made my own tests by adding more cars, and watched the loco slow down. But this also brings another thought to mind. A stock loco runs too fast anyway (by itself). So why couldn't the loco be geared down to a more scale speed, and thus increase the power. I have a 70 ton switcher than runs slow, but it can pull much more than the GP40. Maybe someday they will make a multi-range loco with a small "gear shifter". I used to re-wind slot car motors for more speed, why not re-wind for more power? Food for thought.
Bo
Gene,
Off the subject of trains, but in reference to your comment about 'weight can be good', not only the P-40s were dangerous to Japanese Zeros (a lighter, more manuverable fighter), but in the European theatre, the P-47s were also at an advantage if the pilot was 'on the ball'. Once the P-47 went into a dive, the ME 110 and FW 190s could not keep up with them, though again both being more manuverable and perhaps even faster?. Thus if the altitude was great enough, I have understood P-47 pilots could 'dive' out of trouble in a dogfight.
But, both the P-40 and the P-47 (as well as other US aircraft) were harder to knock down bacause of protective armor for the pilot, etc. I think the P-47 was kind of like a 'flying tank' wasn't it?
lanny
Totally off the subject of trains, the P-47, which pilots called the "Jug," could indeed outdive a Bf-109. The Bf-110 was much heavier and the FW-190 was about the same weight, though very manueverable.
And yes, the U.S. aircraft had superior armor for the pilot, the fuel tanks, and, normally, the engine.
Gene
Too, the Grumman had the "Shindler factor," i.e. superior engineering that reinforced the cockpit and allowed many pilots to survive crash landings. Good guy was E.C. Shindler.
My Father-in-law met Dave Schilling, P-47 ace with 22 1/2 kills (I think) in NY before he was killed in an auto accident after WWII. Small albeit important bit of trivia there, seeing the way the US is going these days.
Best Wishes,
Jack