Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: Loco Bill Canelos on December 31, 2010, 02:40:34 PM



Title: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on December 31, 2010, 02:40:34 PM
 First, Happy New Year to all board members & lurkers!!

After all these years I can no longer state that I am 100 percent Bachmann!!

I got my very first USA Trains locomotive, and first diesel ( a GP-7) and want to remove the paint.  On the off chance that some of you may have some experience with USA Trains paints I thought I would ask here as I could not find a USA Trains specific forum site

My usual methods do not seem to work, so any ideas will be appreciated. 


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Chuck N on December 31, 2010, 05:19:04 PM
Bill:

My suggestion would be to ask your question over at <mylargescale.com> and pose it in the public forum.  There are a lot of people over there who strip and repaint engines and cars, from many different manufacturers.

I have used brake fluid to remove lettering, and if it is left on the paint too long it will start softening it to the point where it can be rubbed off.  This has worked on LGB cars and engines, but I haven't tried it on any USA products.

Chuck


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Sleeping Bear on December 31, 2010, 09:18:30 PM
  Bill,   Sorry if this is a dumb question, but...have you tried Testors E.L.O. (easy lift off)??  I hear from some of the local guys that it will strip anything down to the plastic and not hurt the fine details. I plan to try it on an Aristo  GP 40 in a few months. The one guy I talked to said he used it to strip a model car he was redoing after 20 years. He used automotive paint and baked the finish the first time and he said it worked on that. Hope this helps.....later all.....S.B.


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on January 01, 2011, 10:50:05 AM
Thanks for the suggestions guys!

I have used Brake fluid in the past with mixed results.  Unless things have changed I am reluctant to go to MLS.com as I don't like the flaming and rudeness often displayed there. wish they had a policy like this site.   

I will use Brake fluid if I can't find anything else.

I have never heard of ELO, but I will go out and and try the ELO first.  I like the idea that is is made for the specific purpose of removing paint from plastic. 

Again thanks!


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Chuck N on January 01, 2011, 11:31:08 AM
Bill:

I agree there are times when there is some flaming and rudeness, on that site.  It isn't all that often and you quickly learn whose comments and threads you can skip over if you don't like that stuff.  Which I don't. 

I still say that they are an excellent source for general questions, like the one that you posed.  Just avoid asking about DC, DCC,  Battery/RC and which type of rail is better!!!

Chuck


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Sleeping Bear on January 01, 2011, 12:40:11 PM
  Bill    here is a link to Testors' web site and the ELO that I spoke of before . hope it works for you..(and me)    http://www.testors.com/product/137350/F542143/_/ELO_Paint_%26_Decal_Remove_8oz.     Later all......HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!! .......S.B.


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on January 01, 2011, 08:02:39 PM
Chuck, SB,

You hit it on the head with those locations!!   :o :o.  Never saw such ego maniacs in my life and I am 70 years old.  Just simple respect for another opinion seems to be in order there and everywhere!  I wil go back and lurk at MLS later tonight.

S.B.  Thanks for the link to testors, looks like I can order it direct if necessary.  Tried to find some ELO, but the local hobby shop doesn't carry it.  I will either have them order it or buy it online.

So far I have tried Acetone, Denatured Alcohol, Lacquer thinner, The purple stuff Kevin S uses, Goo gone, OOPs,  all with no success.

It is down to ELO or Brake Fluid!

Hunt,  thanks!


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Chuck N on January 01, 2011, 08:15:59 PM
Bill:

Like you I'm 70.  I find that the pluses far out weight the negatives at MLS.  Like life, you have to take the good with the bad and the good over there is great.  I have almost 700 entries over there and so far I haven't been flamed or ridiculed (that I know of).  If you stick to facts and limit opinions you shouldn't have problems.

Chuck


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Doneldon on January 02, 2011, 01:17:34 AM
Loco Bill-

Try the brake fluid inside the loco shell to see if it attacks the plastic. I'd give it at least an hour before I'd be sure there was no problem. And use a soft brush when you rinse the goop off. Even a heavy stream of water can leave stuff in tiny corners. A brush will help the water flush it away.
                                                                                                                                                                            -- D


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on January 02, 2011, 11:01:56 AM
Donaldson, 

Thanks, I will be careful if I use the brake fluid, I am still trying to find some ELO.


Lurked  over on MLS and did some searches, but didn't find much new on paint removal.

will try Large scale central later today.


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Kevin Strong on January 02, 2011, 12:25:16 PM
Bill, part of the problem with removing paint is that there's no one solution that works. Different paints react differently to different materials. I've used denatured alcohol on some locos where it left the lettering in place but stripped the base color, and other solutions that stripped the lettering on one tender, and didn't make a dent on the next. It's "trial and error" to the extreme, regardless of who makes the trains.

I generally don't bother stripping the paint. I'll take some fine steel wool and knock down the edges of the lettering and striping a bit, but that's about it. Too much trouble otherwise for what amounts to not making much/any difference in the new finish.

If you're really after stripping paint, check out the thread on MLS about a soda blaster. This is an abrasive sand-blaster type thing that uses baking soda instead of sand. It's supposed to be more effective than sand.

Later,

K


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on January 03, 2011, 04:36:49 PM
Kevin,

As a repainter for many years, I must say your comments hit it on the head and mirror my personal experiences exactly.  Seems this large scale paint is tougher than that on my old HO Scale stuff from 20 years ago.

Ordinarily I do what you do, use 300 grit wet dry sandpaper and knock down the lettering, give it a coat of primer, then paint. 

Its just that on this doggone NYC lightning stripe USAT paint job the stripes, especially the white ones are really thick and go thru details like door latches, louvers etc.  I can't really get in there like usual and make the sanding method work without messing up the details. 

My main lesson learned is to get a loco with a minimal paint scheme rather than a complex one like the NYC Lightning stripe.  I already finished several cars using this policy with no problem.  Actually the NYC loco new in box, was so cheap I could not pass it up, so I really need to quit griping and get this thing done.

Drove 130 miles roundtrip yesterday to get Testor's ELO paint remover.   
They say don't soak the model in it, just paint it on and the paint will crinkle and can be removed with a stiff brush.   I painted it on and after 3 hours there was no sign of any paint coming off, and no sign of any damage to the plastic where there  was no paint.  It seems to have consistency of brake fluid , but smells different.  At $12 per pint it is, so far, an expensive failure.

I reapplied it today and laid down tissue paper over the lettering, and soaked the paper till it is very soggy. I will leave it for six hours and see if anything is happening.  I will report the results later.

In the meantime I will check out the soda blaster!!

Thanks


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Sleeping Bear on January 03, 2011, 07:13:49 PM
   Bill,   Sorry that the ELO isn't working for you, my guys swear by the stuff, even on clear lexan. When I try it on an Aristo, I'll let you know what happens. The only other thing I know to try is 'Permatex' aerosol gasket remover. I know it will remove automotive paint from cars and bikes in about 10 seconds flat, wipe it off with a paper towel.  "NOT" sure what it will do to plastic, it may melt it, I don't know. If you try it , be carefull, TEST....TEST.....and RE-test. Hope you find a solution.....later all.....S.B.


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on January 03, 2011, 10:56:36 PM
Hi, SB.

Sounds Risky to me!!

After 9 hours still no sign of any paint lifting.  I have decided to leave it on overnight.  If nothing happens I will go to Brake fluid.

I just got an LGB Boxcar decorated for Campbell soup which I will also repaint.  It is suitable for sanding primering and painting without removal of the old paint, but I thought what the Hey try the ELO on the lettering.  Well it started working immediately and within minutes all the colors in the Campbell Soup kids was removed except for any black or red.  I had to quit for the day so wiped it off.  Will play with it tomorrow and see if I can get rid if the black and red.  Interestingly the underlying red & white did not seem to be affected, only the paint in the logos.





Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Sleeping Bear on January 04, 2011, 12:22:46 AM
  Bill,  I know it's risky and if I get a piece of some thing to try it on, I'll pass along the results. As for the ELO results on the Campbell's car.....interesting effect.  Makes one wonder what kind of sealer their using on these things and if the paint isn't more dye than paint. let us know the results if you get a chance to try the ELO on a Bachmann piece,or I will if I get there first.  Hope all goes well.....Later all...... S.B.


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Doneldon on January 04, 2011, 01:07:34 AM
Loco Bill et.al.-
Harbor Freight sells some very low-grit abrasive for models
which will work in their specially designed sprayer on an
airbrush rig. I haven't tried it yet but it could be worth a try.
Or use their airbrush thing with baking soda.
                                                              -- D


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on January 06, 2011, 11:17:37 PM
For those who are interested here is what I learned.

I had hoped that ELO would be a better faster way to remove the paint from my USAT GP-7 than using brake fluid.

ELO does not seem to be suitable for complete paint removal on USAT paint, and does not work if the loco is imersed in the stuff, as the instructions stated.   I ended up dumping it into a brake fluid bath for 12 hours on each side then used a toothbrush and soap and water to clean it up.  Worked fine no damage to plastic at all.  Just the usual mess that using brake fluid causes.

ELO did work on the stamped or screened on lettering on an LGB Boxcar and on the lettering on a Bachman Trolley.  I brushed the ELO on and after a few minutes rubbed the lettering briskly using a pink eraser.  Within about 20 minutes I had all the lettering off without hurting the underlying paint.  Some colors came off very quickly while others took a while (black & red).

I will keep ELO handy for when I want to try to remove lettering without hurting the underlying paint.

As Kevin put it, what works on one item may not work on another even if it is the same Brand.  I have custom painted trains for many years and can attest to that. 

If my loco had a simple paint scheme like SP I could have just sandpapered off the lettering with 300 grit wet dry sandpaper and primered it in about 20 minutes, so I recommend that first.  Same with rolling stock unless you are trying to preserve the underlying paint. 



 


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Sleeping Bear on January 07, 2011, 12:57:17 AM
  Thanks for the info,  Bill.  Sorry the ELO didn't work as we thought or hoped it would.  I will still try it on an Aristo GP40 here in the next month or so and will let everyone know of my results.  I don't feel as a full paint strip will be necessary, as Bill mentioned, I'll be starting with an SP unit, so a mild scuffing is really all that is required.  None the less, I'll try it on a small spot and let ya know how it goes.  Sorry again, Bill.     Later all......S.B.


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on January 07, 2011, 09:32:52 AM
SB,

Live and learn,  I just bought some of those cheap ball bearing truck  Aristo box cars from Trainworld, the ones with the Aristo advertizing on them.   I am going to try the ELO on the logos and see what happens. I will pass that on as well. 

I expect the ELO will work on the lettering, but may not on the blody nose,   I will look forward to your report.


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on January 11, 2011, 11:01:48 AM
A little update. 

I have tried ELO on the Aristo cars lettering, but it removes the underlying paint as well as the logo, but it does not really work well at all.   Same was true for A Delton caboose.   I ended up using my tried and true super fine grit sandpaper.   While I suspect that the ELO would eventually remove all the paint it time the sandpaper method id far faster and less messy.  If I( ever need to remove paint completely do to bare plastic I would use brake fluid

I now have the loco and six cars ready for primer, but it is too cold here to do it.   :(


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Sleeping Bear on January 13, 2011, 05:13:39 PM
  O.k. Bill,........just got a little bottle of the ELO, and here are the results of my initial test(about 5 minutes worth)....  Older Delton U.P. caboose.    Almost instantly liquefied U.P. emblem and writing,a couple passes with an old tooth brush and it was gone, didn't touch base Yellow.  Aristo Lil' critter, circa 1997, softened  the G.N. emblem and orange stripe to a point that 3 or 4 passes with a pink (fine grit) nail file, took it to the green paint under the emblem and wiped out the edge of the stripe. With a little more time I think the strip would go almost completely.  Haven't tried it on the brand new GP 40 yet. Still just kinda lookin at it.  When I do try it, I'll post results.              Later all.......S.B.


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on January 16, 2011, 12:10:24 PM
Thanks SB,   My son tried ELO on a USA Trains 50 foot Boxcar, but had no luck. Ended up using 400 grit wet sandpaper to get the lettering off.


Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Kevin Strong on January 16, 2011, 02:17:45 PM
I decided to try the ELO myself on an Accucraft hopper. As expected, lifting off was in fact "easy." Alas, what it easily lifted off wasn't what I was looking to remove. Took the paint right off, didn't touch the lettering. Went to denatured alcohol, which attacked both the paint and the lettering. Fortunately the underlying plastic is also black, and with a bit of weathering you'll never know the difference.

Later,

K



Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on January 17, 2011, 12:10:54 AM
Thanks Kevin,

Just goes to show you that what is good for one isn't good for all.  It would be great to know what paint the different manufacturers use, lacquer, enamel, acrylic, on the bodies, and on the lettering. 

I suspect that the paints used vary even within a manufacturer.  Just have to stick with the old trial and error. 





Title: Re: Paint removal from locomotives
Post by: Sleeping Bear on March 07, 2011, 08:39:52 PM
  As I promised, here are my results with the ELO.    Results were not real  good, The only effect that I can comment on is the slight softening of the lettering. Did not touch the grey or put a dent in the bloody nose on my Aristo GP-40, much as we thought. Will keep it on hand for attempts in the future.   later all....S.B.