A few years ago Bachmann made HO Civil War sets, one North and one South. I would like to see Bachmann reissue these sets, but updated with current technology, including DCC. Is there any chance of this happening? This begins the 150Th anniversary of the Civil War.
I seriously doubt that will ever happen. To small a Niche market.
The present locos would have to be extensively retooled. I have done a couple Bachmann old time 4-4-0's and the total cost not counting time to do the installs, was about $150 per engine. I did dcc in my locos.
The motors are in the tender and not very efficient, plus you can see the drive shaft into the loco.
Bachmann manages to hide the drive shaft in the advertisement photos.
You are talking a lot of retooling. The present Bachmann old time 4-4-0 is circa 1870's and not a good runner without a lot of fine tuning.
The CW was over in 1865 and most of the locos where quite different.
The real locomotives used in the great locomotive chase are on display as I have seen them and modified quite a lot from the 1865 era.
Don't forget, all the Bachmann stuff comes from China.
Rich
Unfortunately, nothing in those old Bachman Civil war sets were accurate to the Civil war period including the track and turnouts. The 1870s engines were over scale and the rolling stock was also too modern.
I would forget obtaining the proper locomotives, for the reasons already mentioned, and concentrate on the rolling stock...with
is available. Check out the B.T.S. website for more information on Civil War rolling stock:
http://www.btsrr.com/bts7803.htm (http://www.btsrr.com/bts7803.htm)
The Bachmann/AHM/Pocher/etc. American 4-4-0s
are not Civil War vintage and are extremely poor runners. Frankly they aren't worth the expenditure. I have a couple of these locomotives and use them for static display in the train room - all of them have been repainted/redecorated for the Newburgh, Dutchess & Columbia Ry (the predecessor to the Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut and the Central New England Railroad).
Ray
I found some great info on civil war trains in Railroad Model Craftsman October 2009 issue.
The article was written by Thom Radice. He created was an excellent layout based on the Western Atlantic around 1863.
He used the old Mantua/Tyco 4 4 0 Generals. I think they were pretty good representations of the famous Civl War General. He even went to the trouble of making the pilots so that they are wire frames.
Not sure you can get these locos today. I have two but neither run very well any more.
You might chekc out E bay to see if any one is selling them used.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
Quote from: CNE Runner on January 29, 2011, 10:32:40 AM
AHM/Pocher/etc. American 4-4-0s are not Civil War vintage and are extremely poor runners. Frankly they aren't worth the expenditure.
Sure enough, but if you can get ahold of some late-model Rivarossi versions of these engines (look for the red box), they run beautifully.
Do you think that 0-8-0's could be used in my layout...I'm trying to make a post war layout when the railroads were shipping tanks on flatbeds and said they were special deliveries of cargo. I'm going to be using life like tanks that are half covered in molded plastic looking like covers over the tanks. i understand that usually in the post war era that they usually used 2-10-2 Rivarossi's and i think i would freelance my railroad fitting to my perfections and wantings.
Quote from: 4-8-4unionpacific on February 06, 2011, 05:10:00 PM
Do you think that 0-8-0's could be used in my layout...I'm trying to make a post war layout when the railroads were shipping tanks on flatbeds and said they were special deliveries of cargo. I'm going to be using life like tanks that are half covered in molded plastic looking like covers over the tanks. i understand that usually in the post war era that they usually used 2-10-2 Rivarossi's and i think i would freelance my railroad fitting to my perfections and wantings.
You must mean World War One when tanks where first developed? Maybe you should start a different thread with appropriate subject. Of course, this is just a guess.
Rich
UPfef-
I agree with rich that you would likely get better answers by starting a new thread rather than changing the topic of this one.
That said, no, I don't think you could get away with hauling a train of anything on a mainline with an 0-8-0. The 0-8-0s were switchers with plenty of power for the job, as long as the train wasn't terribly long, but they would have been very slow and not really designed for mainline use. They would experience at least two problems: First, they would need to stop often for water and fuel as they had smallish tenders compared to mainline locos. Second, the lack of a pilot truck would require them to move quite slowly or risk a derailment. A slow train could screw up the whole railroad and a derailment could possibly be worse. I'm not saying no 0-8-0s ever went on the mainline with a train, just that it would have been very unusual.
-- D
winans camels were 0-8-0s and they predated the civil war. they were extensively used by the b&o as mainline freight locomotives.....
btw, there is an article on railroads in the civil war in the latest issue of trains.....
Quote from: jward on February 06, 2011, 09:12:16 PM
winans camels were 0-8-0s and they predated the civil war. they were extensively used by the b&o as mainline freight locomotives.....
btw, there is an article on railroads in the civil war in the latest issue of trains.....
My bashed 0-8-0.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Winans%20Camel/MyCamel.jpg)
Prototype circa 1855.(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Winans%20Camel/Winans171-1.jpg)
Made from
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Winans%20Camel/Kitbashedto0-8-0.jpg)
Another photo. Link & pin couplers.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Winans%20Camel/Linkpin.jpg)
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Winans%20Camel/Pump.jpg)
Rich
beautiful work. do you have any iron pot hoppers to go with it?
jeff-
Yes, there were 0-8-0s prior to the Civil War. But he asked about locos to pull flats with tanks. Tanks didn't come about until 50 years later and locomotives were specialized as to use by then. One would not have seen 0-8-0s on mainlines except under extraordinary circumstances.
-- D
Quote from: jward on February 06, 2011, 09:32:42 PM
beautiful work. do you have any iron pot hoppers to go with it?
No I do not. Never did find a way to make any so far. A lot of sheet metal simulation with rivets needed.
I am still looking. Making the tender trucks would be a challenge as the prototype pot hoppers did not have swivel trucks.
It would be nice as I can convert this to DCC sound fairly easy. The new Roundhouse tender frames are ready for a 28mm speaker and a Micro Tsunami will fit just fine. The new Roundhouse 4-4-0, 2-6-0 and 2-8-0 have the identical tenders and I have the Micros in them.
By the way, the Winans Camel I made is oversize. Fifty one inch drivers instead of forty three inch drivers the prototypes had. The prototypes railroad did over ten miles and hour.
Rich
Quote from: Doneldon on February 06, 2011, 09:48:49 PM
jeff-
Yes, there were 0-8-0s prior to the Civil War. But he asked about locos to pull flats with tanks. Tanks didn't come about until 50 years later and locomotives were specialized as to use by then. One would not have seen 0-8-0s on mainlines except under extraordinary circumstances.
-- D
Yeah, we know. This guy hijacked the thread with a completely different subject.
Rich
According to this article:
http://ctr.trains.com/Railroad%20Reference/Steam%20Locomotives/2006/07/Steam%20locomotive%20profile%200-8-0.aspx (http://ctr.trains.com/Railroad%20Reference/Steam%20Locomotives/2006/07/Steam%20locomotive%20profile%200-8-0.aspx)
0-8-0's were built as late as 1953 and some were used in heavy transfer service (mainline operation between yards.)
Jim
Quote from: richg on February 06, 2011, 09:24:24 PM
Quote from: jward on February 06, 2011, 09:12:16 PM
winans camels were 0-8-0s and they predated the civil war. they were extensively used by the b&o as mainline freight locomotives.....
btw, there is an article on railroads in the civil war in the latest issue of trains.....
My bashed 0-8-0.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Winans%20Camel/MyCamel.jpg)
Prototype circa 1855.(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Winans%20Camel/Winans171-1.jpg)
Made from
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Winans%20Camel/Kitbashedto0-8-0.jpg)
Another photo. Link & pin couplers.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Winans%20Camel/Linkpin.jpg)
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Winans%20Camel/Pump.jpg)
Rich
Incredible work!
Hey Guys,
I just picked up a copy of "Trains" Magazine - March 2011 issue sub Title on the magazine is "Civil War rails". I haven't read it yet, as I just bought it last night, but the photo of a 4-4-0 - American (My personal fave) on the front is Georgeous. I could stare at her all night long. Drool Drool - oops.
Barry
Jim-
"Transfer service." My point exactly. These were short runs which used mainlines only when other access wasn't available. For example, many cities had specialized transfer railroads in order to avaiod fouling the mains with transfers.
-- D
those 0-8-0s built as late as 1953 were for the n&w. there weren't many cities along the original n&w where tranfer runs were needed. more likely, those 0-8-0s were used on mine branches where sharp curves precluded the use of larger power.
but as was stated before, b&o was using a rather large fleet of 0-8-0s in mainline service before the civil war.....
Trying to tie the threads back together - Back in the Civil War era, a lot of freight engines were of the 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 wheel arrangement. They had a lot more tractive effort than the ubiquitous 4-4-0's of the period. Many of them were Baldwin's "Flexible Beam" design, an early form of lateral motion device to help negotiate curves better. The B&O had large number of
0-8-0's, mostly Winans Camels as illustrated above.
As the 19th Century closed the benefits of pilot trucks became more and more apparent as speeds increased. In this period also the differentiation between passenger and freight power increased, as did the development of the switch engine as distinct from hand-me-down road engines.
As a switcher, the 0-8-0 began to become common in the early 1900's. The USRA loco designs included an 0-8-0 which was popular at the time, and in remained a favored design right up until the N&W built its last ones. While the 0-6-0's and 0-8-0's were found almost exclusively in yard work, you might see them occasionlly out on the road doing local way freight work. The Lacawanna frequently used some of their 0-8-0's in this service.
The 0-8-0's during the middle 1800's were used for coal drags and work trains as railroads were continually expanding. There were quite a few various models of 0-8-0s A few did pusher service as some eastern roads had some steep grades at the time.
The B&O had most of the Winans Camels. Almost 200 from a couple sources.
I have a photo of the last one being dismantled in the B&O yard in 1898. The B&O kept a couple around the yard. Only two had boiler explosions.
The South during the war took many from B&O. They were dragged by large teams of oxen over dirt roads using some kind of dollies.
Rich
Here are some interestng items at Hawthorne Village trains for you to look at:
http://www.bradfordexchange.com/products/917402_civil-war-train.html?N=8125+8107+9040+9044+564+9038+9037
After reading the aticle in "Trains" it sounds like one should only consider 4-4-0 to stay true to what really happened.
or if you are into On30:
http://www.bradfordexchange.com/products/49073_civil-war-train.html
Barry
Is it Bachmann that is producing the armor cars?
Bachmann used to produce a model of the "John Bull" locomotive (sold in a train set). While this is an earlier locomotive from the 1830s it lasted in regular service until 1866. Also Bachmann produce a Norris 4-2-0 (Pegasus), also from the 1830s. I don't whether any of these lasted until the civil war, but they did last into the late 1850s.
Hamish
I have now seen a reference that states that the "Pegasus" was retired in 1863, so perhaps it could be used for an early civil war train. Bachmann's other historic train type, the De Witt Clinton, apparently only lasted a short time so would not be suitable. While locomotives built during the civil war would be more modern than the "Pegasus" and the "John Bull" it seems that some of these early type s of locomotives did last into the civil war.
Hamish
"To commemorate the 150th Anniversary of the start of the Civil War, Bachmann is offering HO Civil War train sets in two versions: Union and Confederate. The 130-piece Civil War sets also include military figures, cannons, and horses."
This is from Bachmann themselves. So I guess your wish came true! ;D
We've been down this path before, but just to be brief - The very earliest locos were almost one-of-a-kind experiments. Some came from England - the John Bull and the Sturbridge Lion, for instance. They were of the 0-4-0 design, with the cylinders down under the smokebox. The Tom Thumb on the B&O had a gear drive and a vertical boiler. The Best Friend of Charleston also had a vertical boiler but was an 0-4-0.
As the 1830's wore on, some common designs emerged. Chief among them was the 4-2-0, of which "Pegasus" is a good example. The B&O had a number of these. The B&O Museum includes the "Lafayette", a reproduction built for the Fair of the Iron Horse in 1927. It had been operating occasionally in past years.
The 4-2-0 rather quickly morphed into the 4-4-0, which did dominate most of the 19th Century. As I noted earlier, there were other locos, such as the Baldwiin Flexible Beam designs. The 2-6-0 and 4-6-0 also became more common as the century wore on. And yes, some of the early locos were kept around for light work or switching. A 4-2-0 on a work train or short local train during the Civil War would be just fine.
Quote from: BillingsRR on February 14, 2011, 03:57:52 PM
"To commemorate the 150th Anniversary of the start of the Civil War, Bachmann is offering HO Civil War train sets in two versions: Union and Confederate. The 130-piece Civil War sets also include military figures, cannons, and horses."
This is from Bachmann themselves. So I guess your wish came true! ;D
Wouldn't it be nice if the engines were Spectrum quality?
Hey dude. You are in luck! Bachmann JUST announced 2 civil war train sets. Union and Confederate. They did this to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the start of the civil war. Bachmann must have been listening to you. lol If you don't believe me, check the main page toy fair announcements
Found the page. Can't find the Bachmann stuff.
http://www.toyassociation.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Toy_Fair&Template=/TaggedPage/TaggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=193&ContentID=14833 (http://www.toyassociation.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Toy_Fair&Template=/TaggedPage/TaggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=193&ContentID=14833)
Early in this thread, someone commented on the driveline from the tender on the 4-4-0's being quite visible. I dealt with this many years ago on some Kemtron On3 C-16's.
What is done is to measure the overall length of the shaft. Thenn drill a #73 hole in the couplings, then cut them off of the original shaft. Then take a piece of .025" piano wire and press it into the holes in the couplings with a drop of ACC on it. When painted black it will batrely be noticeable, and a fireman can further disguise it.
Glenn Joesten
Im sorry i wasnt paying attention to the title when i read it
Where did you purchase the kit to make the Winans Camel?I know it is completely off subject....sorr, I am just curious.
Reference item:
http://usmrr.blogspot.com/
This fellow is working in O scale, so some of what he has is not available in the smaller sizes, but I have to say the work looks first rate.
It's interesting to note that he also has a long history of modeling in N scale!
If it is O Scale--that Winans Camel was probably imported by Max Gray back in the late fifties or early sixties. There is also an importer presently bringing in early-era models in O Scale and O Hi-Rail.
gj
Quote from: 4-8-4unionpacific on February 18, 2011, 10:18:40 PM
Where did you purchase the kit to make the Winans Camel?I know it is completely off subject....sorr, I am just curious.
Some years ago I bashed a MDC/Roundhouse old time 2-8-0 following an article in RMC magazine. I slit the plastic smoke box wrapper and reversed it to simulate how the prototype had the smoke stack right at the front. You will notice the stack does not line up with the cylinders.
I made the cab from styrene and used some windows for a roundhouse. I removed the steam dome and sand dome. Made my own steam dome which is almost the same diameter as the boiler in the prototype.
The water pumps are from parts and pieces from my junk box. I did this before any Internet so never thought of taking pictures during the bash.
Again, captures the flavor of the era.
Rich
ahhh thank you....I am an HO scale hobbyist and have been thinking about converting to On3.I think the use of and O scale body on HO wheels has been a great idea.....I just havent thought about it....should i do this?
I think that the 3-foot boom really took hold a bit after the Civil War--General Palmer started his lines in 1871-Robert Sloan's epic "A Century plus Ten of Rio Grande Freight Cars" has good drawings of the early cars. (BHI Publications has it) gj
UP FEF-
On3 is not exactly O-scale bodies on HO wheels. The narrow gauge equipment was/is smaller than full gauge trains. For example, 4'8.5" passenger cars have two pairs of seats in each row of seats but three-foot narrow gauge had three seats, two plus one, in each row. I don't know if that was always true but it was often true and it demonstrates the fact that narrow gauge rolling stock was/is smaller than full size. Freight house cars were generally 28' - 32', flats and gons were similar and cabeese tended to be pretty small.
-- D