I have 2 older GP40 locos and was thinking of adding DCC to them.
Is this a good investment or is it better to purchase more up to date models that are already DCC equipped or ready?
Thanks for advice
It would be much easier and you would probably be happier if you just bought new locomotives that already have DCC or have an 8-pin plug.
how old are these gp40s? are they bachmann or atlas?
limey-
It's hard to answer your question without knowing what you mean by "older GP40 locos." Two older but finely detailed and smooth operating locos might be good candidates for an update, probably with quality can motors, too, while older entry level models would be a waste of time and money. Or maybe you have two locos that you and your children used and they mean the world to you. In that case, no price is too much to keep 'em rolling. Let us know what you have and we'll try to give you a more definitive answer.
-- D
I have 7 bachmann GP40 DCC Locomotives $43.00 US a piece had a couple of them that were DC had beacon lights and a decoder put in them .I did not do the install .Light,decoder ,and installation $53.00 so I was better off buying the brand new Bachmann DCC Locomotives at $43.00 rather than having the decoder and beacon lights put in . I have 30 bachmann DCC locomotives HO scale and love them .no matter how long I leave them out on the layout put them back in their boxes ,and store them every time I get them out to run . Never a problem .If there is a problem It is usually something I did . like not cleaning my track or running to many trains at one time and I " gomez " them or I get lazy and don't clean and lube the trucks like I should on a regular basis. well schedule ..
limey2009 does not seem to have been back to check for answers or chose not to tell us the age of his locomotives. But I'll add my 2 cents worth anyway. Here are my personal guidelines for adding DCC to diesels:
(1) Does the locomotive run well on dc?
(2) Does the locomotive have all wheel pickup?
(3) Does the locomotive have at least 8 wheel drive?
(4) Is the locomotive complete? If not, can I easily get replacement parts?
If I can answer "yes" to all four questions, then the locomotive is a good candidate for a decoder. If I get one or more noes, then I ask a fifth question: does this locomotive have any sentimental value and is it enough to override the first four questions?
My cost analysis is a little different than mf5117's, largely because I do install decoders. Using his same example, a basic decoder plus an amber LED can be had for less than $20. Installation is free (if I don't count the 1/2 hour of my hobby time.) Total cost $20. As a bonus, I get to use the decoder of my choice.
But buying a new locomotive with DCC on board would be $43 plus say $15 shipping and handling. From that I can subtract the $10 that I can get for my old, used one, leaving a net cost of $48. I can covert two of my old ones for the price of buying a new one and still have enough left over to go out for lunch. Looking at it another way, it might be cost effective for limey2009 to buy a soldering iron and a couple of decoders, then learn how to install them.
Jim
One can purchase a Bachmann loco with factory DCC for $30 or less including shipping in the United States. They sometimes go in the $20-$25 range brand new. At a local hobby shop I can buy a Bachmann FT-A with DCC for $19.99 or GP-40 for $24.99, then there is no shipping cost. As I see it you can get a DCC loco for only $5-10 more than the cost of a decent decoder.
that doesn't tell the whole story.....
while i do like the idea that bachmann locomotives can now be had with dcc, the decoders in them don't appear to support basic speed tables (cv5 & 6).....
what this means to me is that i can't speed match them, as the cv's i need to tweak aren't available. on my current tiny layout this isn't much of a problem, but on a larger layout where multi unit consists are the rule this would cause problems. and the only cure i can see for this problem is to replace the decoder with one of the many that DO support those cv's. if i have to replace the decoder anyway, better to buy a decoderless engine and save a few bucks....
i REALLY do hope that bachmann phases out their current decoders in favour of those supporting at least basic speed tables. until they do, i will only buy decoderless locomotives if i have the choice.....
Currently I can buy a DCC FT-A at my local hobby shop for only $2 more than the DC version, while a GP-40 with DCC is only $3 more than a DC version. Granted they only have 2 FT-As, 1 FT-B, and 2 GP-40s with DCC in stock. In the end if he doesn't want to mu multiple locos or if the locos he is running together are already matched then he may as well pay $2 or $3 more for a DCC loco, especially if he is not comfortable hard-wiring decoders.
It would be nice to see Bachmann using a decoder that implements CV09. If factory set for wide, low frequency pulses, it would work with Bachmann's RFI capacitors. But if a user wanted to, he could clip the capacitors and adjust CV09 for supersonic (silent) operation. Such decoders complete with basic speed tables, 128 step speed tables, BEMF control and a variety of special lighting functions are already available for about $20.
As I said before, installing your own decoders allows you to choose the decoder you want. I am left wondering if the small price difference between locomotives with and without decoders at ACY's local hobby shop indicates modelers in his area prefer to install their own decoders. If so, it must be a boon to those who prefer to have others choose and install decoders for them. Bottom line, we are lucky to have the choice of how we buy our locomotives and what we ultimately do with them.
Jim
The selection of DCC decoders at all of my local hobby shops combined is as follows 1 each of Tsunami Heavy, Medium and Light, 1 MRC Diesel sound decoder (cannot recall which one), 1 DZ125 decoder, and Bachmann decoders with 8 pin plugs, 1 3-pack and 4 individual (the larger/HO ones). The Bachmann decoders are only $8 each or a 3 pack for $20. The MRC decoder was $85, the DZ125 was $25, and the Tsunami's are $120 each. The only DCC systems available are the E-Z Command (about 10-12 of them) or the MRC Prodigy Express (only 1), everything else would be special order. My LHS include 4 Hobby Lobby's (which are mostly worthless), 3 Hobbytown USA's, 4 independent hobby shops, 1 place that only sells Lionel, and 3 places that only sell model RR. The scales available in some capacity are Z (very limited), N, HO, S (only American Flyer locos and rolling-stock), On30 (very limited), O, G/large (limited). These are all within a 30 minute drive. The one thing that is really missing is the lack of variety and volume of DCC systems and decoders.
ACY-
Do you really mean that the lack of DCC systems and decoders is missing? You wrote:
"The one thing that is really missing is the lack of DCC systems and decoders."
-- D
Considering the number of hobby shops and dedicated model RR shops I have, I would expect a greater variety of DCC systems and decoders to be available. From a LHS I can only buy an E-Z Command and one had an MRC Prodigy Express. As far as decoders go, the one place has 3 Tsunami decoders, 1 Digitrax decoder, and 1 MRC decoder in stock, while another has 7 Bachmann decoders, and the other places have nothing.
ACY-
That's fine. But did you read what you wrote?
-- D
ACY, my condolences. A dozen decoders total spread across some 15 hobby shops is indeed a sad situation. The one hobby shop in our small city (population about 250,000) keeps a much larger supply of decoders and systems in several different brands.
If I were to check my tool boxes and spare parts drawers, I would guess I have a couple of dozen spare decoders on hand at any given time. Some are old take-outs from upgrades. Some of these may see reuse as light dimmers in passenger cars. Most are new because when somebody wants a decoder installed, they want it NOW and they want the latest. Being willing to keep a few extras on hand makes it easy to buy in quantity whether I buy from the local hobby shop or from the major dealer in the next province or import them from the U.S. And buying in quantity helps keep the prices down, although not to the level ACY is quoting.
If I had to import decoders one at a time, perhaps I too would be looking for decoder equipped locomotives. But with extras on hand, I can install one in less time than it takes to drive to the local hobby shop and back. As I said in my last post, we are lucky to have the choice.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Banner on March 17, 2011, 12:07:58 AM
ACY, my condolences. A dozen decoders total spread across some 15 hobby shops is indeed a sad situation. The one hobby shop in our small city (population about 250,000) keeps a much larger supply of decoders and systems in several different brands.
The Akron metro area has about 1 million people depending on what you count, while the Youngstown metro area has 750,000 people. That is only 7*10^-6 decoders per capita. I am lucky in that I am good friends with the owner of the Boardman Hobby Center, who will special order items only for me and one other person as far as I know. No other hobby shop will special order a DCC system. Some will order the decoders, but you are obligated to buy them and have to pay a portion of the cost in advance to make sure you actually buy them. The one hobby shop has much better prices than the others, but they mostly stock Bachmann and Williams, and most people I know still refer to them as "Botchmann" and do not realize they have excellent products. Most of my other non-chain local hobby shops will not stock much Bachmann because people still perceive them to be what they formerly were and not what they currently are. The hobby shops with the larger selections are a lot more expensive for some reason. Some do give club members discounts of like 10 or 15% though.
Back on topic, if it were me, I would buy the DCC loco if the price difference was minimal or if I was not confident in my abilities to install a decoder. If I had plans to mu with other non-matched locos, had a need for speed tables and bemf, or wanted sound then I'd buy a decoder separately.
ACY-
Just for the record, you can use superscripts on this board.: 7x10-6. It's the button with "sup" written in small letters near the top of the button.
-- D
Quite frankly, I would prefer that Bachmann was still marketing their Spectrum Steam line as either DCC ready or Sound and DCC.
As I purchased a number of Bachmann steamers when the DCC ready was the norm I quickly added DCC decoders to them. Later when Bachmann started to add their DCC decoders I also bought a number of these. As I ran the steamers it was apparent that those locomotives where I had added DCC decoders ran better than the Bachmann DCC on Board Spectrum steam locomotives.
Over time I have replaced the majority of the Bachmann DCC decoders and in the proces collected quite a number of Bachmann DCC decoders. I will sometime in the future attempt to sell those decoders. Thankfully, the price of DCC decoders has dropped dramatically from when they first became popular.
I do not regret purchasing the Bachmann Spectrum steam engines I have as I consider them to be the best of what is currently available for a reasonable price.
I will not pay the premium in price that the Proto steam engines are selling for. I have a few Proto Steamers and they are not worth the extra cost.
Other steamers on my roster are BLI. I would not consider them to be any better than my Spectrums