OK, Matt (BestSnowMan) got my juices flowing about documenting a sound project. This will by my first time, so beginners unite and let's learn this together.
OK Step One: start reading. I've read all the manuals and information pages from Digitrax, Soundtraxx, NCE and Bachmann. If you're a beginner, it's OK to make mistakes, but an education will certainly help you make better informed decisions.
Step Two: Select a Locomotive and a sound system for your locomotive. I will choose my C&O 2-8-4 Kanawha for my first install. Why? First, it's a great running locomotive, both in DCC and DC. Second, it seems pretty user-friendly for a sound system: there's a prepared spot for a 1" speaker. Since the loco is already DCC there's an 8-pin socket. So, if everything is wired to NMRA standards and colors, should be easier to do the job right.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4258.jpg)
For the sound system, I ended up choosing the Soundtraxx Tsunami TSU-1000 for Heavy Steam. I have some ideas about sticking with one system. Since my Connie already has the Tsunami... I considered the Digitrax, which requires buying a decoder and sound bug add-on. It seems more economical (a little). Well, my LHS Dealer threw in the speaker for free, so I ended up with the Tsunami.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4259.jpg)
For now I'm reading the install manual provided on line, taking notes and gathering my tools. I will provide updates as I complete each step:
3. Gathering tools and materials
4. Testing the electronics
5. Connect plug and speaker to the decoder.
6. Install Speaker
7. Plug in decoder and test the system.
8. Anything else I haven't thought of.
If there is an interest, I'll see this through to the end on the forum. If not, I'll pull the thread, no harm done. Either way, I'm going to try this. Will ask questions, if I get stuck. My plan is to complete a step each day.
Regards,
Jonathan
I'm interested in seeing this through, I have a Bachmann Pere Marquette 2-8-4 that I've always wanted to put sound in but never allocated the budget to getting the sound decoder but had the same Soundtraxx decoder on my wishlist for it.
I would be very interested in seeing how difficult it is to install sound in one of these sound ready 2-8-4s
Matt,
Glad to have you along. The expense is just one reason I have not persued DCC, let alone sound.
Well, I have been saving a Xmas gift card for something special. This is it...
OK, step three has begun. Here are a few of the tools/materials I will need:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4260.jpg)
Soldering materials, shrink tubing, hot air gun, multimeter (most important, maybe), silicon sealer (for the speaker I think), assorted small modeling tools... but one thing is missing. I need an 8-pin plug in which to solder the decoder.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4261.jpg)
This is my 0-8-0 (former 2-8-0). It has been running faithfully on our club's modular layout throughout the year. Time to let it come home and play DC for a while. I shortened it for mining duties. I can use the plug off the stock decoder. The beauty of it is, I can still use the decoder for hardwiring a diesel one day. Well, that's my plan. If it doesn't work, there's always hardwiring the decoder in the Berk.
Regards,
Jonathan
I did my 2-8-4
Make sure if you bypass the Bachman socket and go straight to the wiring that you add the resistors to the lights or you will burn them out like I did
Thanks for the tip, Uncbob. I would not have thought of that, until I fried my first headlight. My plan is to use a plug, and keep the board in place. I do have a stash of 650ohm resistors, and a couple of LEDs, just in case.
To complete step three (gathering tools and parts), I have harvested the plug from the decoder out of my 0-8-0 as mentioned in my previous post:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4262.jpg)
As you can see, it is pretty easy to determine if the colored wires correspond to their correct pin location. It appears they do, according to the instructions:
1=orange
2=yellow
3= nada
4=black
5=gray
6=white
7=blue
8=red
So far so good.
Stripping tiny wires is always fun:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4264.jpg)
The Stock Bachmann decoder is being stored for a future project.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4265.jpg)
Now we've gathered all our needed parts and tools. The next installment will be step four; testing the electronics.
As an aside, I got my multimeter at Harbor Freight for free, using a coupon on line. Free is good.
Regards,
Jonathan
Hey Jonathan,
I'll tag along too if you don't mind. I'm really new at the hobby and just starting to learn a little bit about DCC in general. Probably be a while before I transition, but like to know what I'm getting involved in before I plunge.
I'll be looking for future posts, Thanks!!
Ted
Thanks, Ted.
I have been at this for about 5 years. I really took my time getting to this point. I have this obsession with two. Since I have one sound loco, I must have two. I beilieve I have some weird strain of OCD.
Regards,
Jonathan
Step Four
Time to test the wiring in the tender. I have to say all electrical instructions are vague at best. This is true for the Tsunami installation manual and the multimeter instructions. Let's muddle through somehow.
To get the tender separated, I like to use two small screwdrivers to pull the plugs... to avoid doing any damage:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4273.jpg)
This model has fours screws, in each corner, to open the tender:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4276.jpg)
Pulling the dummy plugs:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4277.jpg)
But which hole is #1? There is an "8" on the board next to one of the holes. I see no other indications so let's go with that. Hope I'm right.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4278.jpg)
Again vague instructions made me use all the settings on the meter, but I'm guessing 20v DC is the proper setting:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4279.jpg)
You are told to test a series of holes, looking for any reaction out of the meter:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4280.jpg)
OK, done, I guess... :-\
While we're in here, let's get a look at the speaker receptacle, You have to remove four screws to get at the speaker slot:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4281.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4282.jpg)
Ta DA!
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4283.jpg)
1" speaker fits well:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4284.jpg)
Notice the lip on the speaker face. Perhaps this is where we add a little silicon gel to secure the speaker. I'm going to think about that one
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4286.jpg)
In the mean time, I'm ready for a little soldering. Will check in soon.
Regards,
Jonathan
Step Five
Soldering the wires and speakers.
Prestaged, shrink tubing:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4287.jpg)
Tinned all the wires:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4288.jpg)
Heat applied to shrink tubing, once the wires were soldered together:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4290.jpg)
Speaker went on last:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4289.jpg)
The instructions say to use the two purple wires for the speakers. Apparently polarity does not matter, unless you plan to use more than one speaker.
Decoder and speaker back in the plastic, waiting for the next step:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4291.jpg)
Question Time: What's the best way to secure the speaker? I was going to put a thin layer on the lip of the speaker (silicon) and just lay it in there. What's the right way?
Oh, and once everything is installed, how do you secure the decoder itself?
Regards,
Jonathan
Addendum: I should mention I am partially color blind. The extra function, brown and green wires almost threw me off in a bad direction. Cuidado!
There is a handy pin guide for the 8-pin plug: http://www.dccwiki.com/NMRA_DCC_Plug
Based on your close up image the pin alignments should be this:
8 7 6 5
1 2 3 4
As long as you have the decoder wired up to the plug correctly the plug can be installed the wrong way and not release the magic smoke. You will know it's in backwards because the lights don't work. Additionally since #3 is the dummy plug if you can verify that pin on the board has no traces to it that would also confirm the orientation.
On otherwebsites boards it was stated if you use the 8 pin plug on the Bachmann **you have to bypass some components on the board ( cut them out )**
In fact that was covered on this board on previous threads about adding sound to Bachmann streamers
You might want to search
So I didn't use the board 8 pin socket --I took the board out and went right to the wires in the harness but as I stated you need resistors or the lights will burn out
Matt,
Thanks. I agree with your assessment. It would appear I figured out the socket orientation.
Uncbob. Thanks, also. I have read those previous threads. It seems to come down to the C1 and C2 capacitors that might inhibit smooth running of the locomotive. The capacitors on this board are not the yellow, pill shaped doodads I'm use to. They are newer style components that sit down flatter on the board. Not sure how to cut them out. Perhaps I just need to mangle 'em with a wire cutter. We'll see how it runs before I start cutting out parts. Will watch for that during testing.
Regards,
Jonathan
Quote from: jonathan on March 21, 2011, 08:08:05 AM
Matt,
Thanks. I agree with your assessment. It would appear I figured out the socket orientation.
Uncbob. Thanks, also. I have read those previous threads. It seems to come down to the C1 and C2 capacitors that might inhibit smooth running of the locomotive. The capacitors on this board are not the yellow, pill shaped doodads I'm use to. They are newer style components that sit down flatter on the board. Not sure how to cut them out. Perhaps I just need to mangle 'em with a wire cutter. We'll see how it runs before I start cutting out parts. Will watch for that during testing.
Regards,
Jonathan
I use a small pair of wire cutters, the 4 inch size. The SMT caps snip off very easily. Unsoldering is not needed.
My new Spectrum 4-6-0 with Tsunami on board has five SMT caps. I removed the caps anyway. Probably do not have to but I had opened up the tender to see what the factory sound install is like.
Rich
Thanks, Rich. As always you have some great info to share.
OK I have good news and bad news. First the good stuff.
I found some sealant that goes on white and dries clear. This is very handy to be able to see against the dark speaker. I will be able to tell if I get any goo on the speaker.
Going to apply it with a sharpended toothpick:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4314.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4310.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4311.jpg)
When I inserted the speaker, I also laid down a bead around the top edge to help hold it in place and prevent unwanted vibration.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4312.jpg)
Then I cleaned up my mess
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4313.jpg)
Plugging in the decoder:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4315.jpg)
What do I do with all this mess?
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4316.jpg)
This tape will hold it for a while while I begin testing:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN4317.jpg)
Now the bad news!
I have sound but no movement. If I put the loco in reverse and turn the throttle up I get 10 flashes in the reverse light. Here's a video of the symptom:
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/th_DSCN4318.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/?action=view¤t=DSCN4318.mp4)
I'm going to start searching through the instructions, but does anyone know what the flashes mean?
Regards,
Jonathan
That is a motor control error. I will look around as I had it happen to me about a year ago.
Rich
Ah, I wonder...
While you're looking, I've read that some Bachmann steamers are notorious for reversing their motor wires. I wonder if left is right and right is left?
Meanwhile I sent an email to Soundtraxx support. Holding my breath...
Regards,
Jonathan
Thanks for finding it faster than I could, Rich.
Error Code 10 says I have an over voltage fault. Hmmm. Now I'm even more confused.
Well, I'm too tired to mess with it right now. I think I'll have to sleep on it.
I will open up the tender tomorrow (or the next day) and see if I can find a bad connection somwhere.
Thanks again, Rich.
Jonathan
Addendum: My layout is DC I couldn't put that many volts into anything. Now I'm even more confused. ;D
OK, DC control. That is a new one to me. As I recall, the Tsunami I installed myself would not run on DC until I selected that option with my Power Cab DCC controller but that was a couple years ago I think. I just wanted to see what would happen on DC control.
I strongly suggest getting a DCC controller that can modify CV's if you want better response for decoders.
I always put a DCC installed loco on the program track, FIRST. One time I had a wire reverse connection and the program track option told me I had an error issue. The decoder would have smoked if I just tried to power up the normal way.
Program track option is designed to protect the decoder if installed incorrectly.
I always recommend a multimeter and DCC controller to properly set up a decoder install.
Rich
Rich,
After a good night's sleep and some thought, I believe you have hit on the answer.
I may have misread the instructions about running on DC. Perhaps the decoder needs to be programmed to accept DC before it will run this way.
After some studying of the wiring and use of the multimeter, I believe I have wired everything correctly.
The error code is just telling me to stop cranking up the throttle to 11. It's not going to move no matter how many DC volts I feed it.
So... at this point, on DC, when I feed 5 or more volts to the rails, the start up sound fires up (air compressor and some clanking). I get no lights, whistle, bell, or movement.
My theory is the decoder needs to be programmed to run in dual mode. I will be taking the loco to Timonium, to run on our Digitrax modular layout at the train show on 9 & 10 April. There, a DCC guru can help me figure out what to do.
Until then I have Spring cleaning to finish on my layout and plenty of other trains to play with, 'er operate.
I will come back to this thread after a DCC buddy has helped me noodle this through. I will love to report, and show a video, when my loco is chuffing along. :)
Thanks, for all your help.
Regards,
Jonathan
Addendum: Finally found this buried towards the end of the programming manual:
"Analog Mode
"While Tsunami is first and foremost a DCC decoder, it may be used on a
DC powered layout, within certain limitations, by enabling the Analog Mode
feature. First set CV 12 to 1 and then set CV 29 to a value that enables
analog mode as well as any desired DCC parameters such as the address
range and so forth as discussed under Step 2, 'Configuring the Decoder'
earlier in this manual."
If I read this right, my loco won't operate in DC until I set CV12 to 1 and CV29 to some other value. I just spoke greek to myself and didn't understand a word, other than I need a DCC buddy to help me set up Analog. jv
Quote from: jonathan on March 21, 2011, 09:17:25 PM
Ah, I wonder...
While you're looking, I've read that some Bachmann steamers are notorious for reversing their motor wires. I wonder if left is right and right is left?
Meanwhile I sent an email to Soundtraxx support. Holding my breath...
Regards,
Jonathan
Yep
My 2-8-4 was reversed from what was labeled on Bachmann's PC board
Never trust the Bachmann wire colors. Get yourself a multimeter and ring out the loco wiring. Those meters have been suggested here before with a link to the site that sells them. About $4.00.
I do that with any loco DCC install. Some other brands do the same thing with wiring colors.
Rich
Yep, thanks, guys. I'm all over it. Have run the wire test with a multimeter as stated previously. Will be doing the programming thing at our next modular layout display.
As this is not a B&O loco, I may keep it DCC only, and run it at displays... If it runs OK. I'll find out in a couple of weeks.
Regards,
Jonathan
Well folks, this project was definitely a success. Here's a couple videos and pix of the Kanawha in action. Camera is not all that focused, but you can hear the chuffing and see the wheels turn. What more could you ask? There's also a video of the Sound Connie (stock Tsunami from the factory) as a comparison.
I got many compliments on the deep, full sound of the TSU-1000 in the 2-8-4. That does not speak to my skills, but the quality of the two products put together.
Click on the photos to see the video.
Thanks again for the help.
Regards,
Jonathan
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Railfan%20Stuff/th_DSCN4394.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Railfan%20Stuff/?action=view¤t=DSCN4394.mp4)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Railfan%20Stuff/th_DSCN4393.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Railfan%20Stuff/?action=view¤t=DSCN4393.mp4)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Railfan%20Stuff/th_DSCN4392.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Railfan%20Stuff/?action=view¤t=DSCN4392.mp4)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Railfan%20Stuff/DSCN4396.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Railfan%20Stuff/DSCN4397.jpg)
It sure did turn out nice!
Jonathon,
Great project :)
All of the detailed photos and info will be a great resource to others installing sound decoders.
NMWTRR
Thanks,
I'm very happy with it.
I did this project in public, so to speak, to help others who are considering sound installation. Of course, this was an easy one. The 2-8-4 and TSU-1000 fit together so perfectly, it's like they were made for each other.
One thing I learned. Soundtraxx does not deliver their decoders in dual mode (able to run on DC). Now I need a DCC guru to help me get it dual mode, and to adjust the sounds a bit. The whistle is nice, but is not loud enough to overcome the chuffing.
The blow down steam function is louder than all get out. Perhaps that's how it was in reality.
Regards,
Jonathan
Quote from: jonathan on April 10, 2011, 06:38:39 AM
Thanks,
I'm very happy with it.
I did this project in public, so to speak, to help others who are considering sound installation. Of course, this was an easy one. The 2-8-4 and TSU-1000 fit together so perfectly, it's like they were made for each other.
One thing I learned. Soundtraxx does not deliver their decoders in dual mode (able to run on DC). Now I need a DCC guru to help me get it dual mode, and to adjust the sounds a bit. The whistle is nice, but is not loud enough to overcome the chuffing.
The blow down steam function is louder than all get out. Perhaps that's how it was in reality.
Regards,
Jonathan
Below is a link to the Yahoo SoundTraxx DCC Group that has a bunch of guys with a lot of DCC experience.
One is Bruce Petrarca Mr. DCC, who started and ran Litchfield Station DCC on line company. He has sold it and now has his own site with a link to Litchfield the last time I looked.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soundtraxx/
I find many advantages to belonging to more than one forum. Sometimes helps prevent a smoked decoder and other mistakes.
Since thee Bach Man does not like discussion of other companies products, the below is very useful for general discussions of other company products and has a large membership.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/
Rich
Jonathan, we spoke briefly about this installation a few weeks a go in another thread. I'm about to begin the installation process in my own Berk of the same decoder and speaker, following your steps. (Though I'm pretty frustrated that my LHS has taken 2 weeks to get the decoder and speaker in when I could have had in two days ordering online... that's what I get for supporting my LHS, oh and it cost more).
Anyway, I had a question come up before I get to the installation. I have the standard run of the mill Bachmann EZ Command DCC controller and no extra power booster to my layout (a standard 4x8 layout). Do you forsee any issues using this controller to program the Tsunami decoder, especially concerning power? I was reading somewhere else concerning this sort of topic and it got me thinking and I am REAL GREEN in these matters. Thanks.
Napa15,
I'm not a DCC guru. However, with the EZ Command System, I'm pretty sure you can program an address (1-9) and trigger the various sounds available.
You cannot program/change any of the factory default settings of the decoder, like chuff speed, type of whistle and the like. You will need a bigger system to make any changes.
With your size layout, you should have no problems running the locomotive without a booster, as long as you don't try to run multiple sound locos at the same time. Sound locos draw more current than a non-sound DCC loco.
That's about as far as my knowledge goes. I run my Berk at train shows, on our club modular layout, which has one of the more sophisticated Digitrax systems. I always need a little extra help getting set up to run trains, especially if I need a trip to the programming track. :)
Regards,
Jonathan
I did my Bachmann 2-8-4 undecorated decaled for my Freelanced RR
Yep they had their motor wires mislabeled
Got it working OK
At lest the tender had a speaker ready location
I think since it cost about $100 for decoder and speaker to do other trains it is worth the extra $70--$80 to buy a new DCC/Sound if available and keep the original as a spare shell/engine or in a display
Hassle isn't worth it to me especially in trying to find room for the decpder and speaker on models that don't have the space already there
You should have placed your speaker in a baffle case. They are cheap and the baffle will enhance the quaility of sound.
You can make excellent enclosures with old 35mm film canisters or just put a piece of styrene in the tender so it seals a bottom compartment. Depending on how the tender connects with the loco this might not work because the connection requires an opening. Sometimes you can seal this, though, by putting a piece of styrene at an angle to separate the"bottom compartment" from the front bottom area of the tender.
-- D
OK, the decoder and speaker finally showed up at my LHS. Probably won't do business with them anymore... unfortunate.
Anyway, I wanted to thank you Jonathan for your guide posted here. It was a HUGE help and made the process a SNAP. I had no spare 8-pin plug in connector, so I just cut the one off of the DCC decoder that came with the engine. Would have been nice to keep it, but not a big deal. Anyway, the process way VERY straight forward and simple. thanks to your help (and the input of others).
I have a few tweaks to make, but am loving it so far.. and most importantly... my son went nuts when we fired it up for the first time. ;D --> Which happened after a short embarrassing few moments of thinking I did something wrong or that my Bachmann EZ Command Controller may not work with the decoder. When I first powered up the unit after installation, the idle sounds came on, but I could not get the loco do anything else.. no other sounds, it wouldn't move, nothing. So I did some Google research and document research and was drawing a blank. Then it hit me (DUH STUPID) that I was still trying to operate the loco on the preset channel I had set with the other decoder, and not the default channel 3. So, once I realized that... well, :o
Anyway, here is a little video I shot last night after we got her up and running. Nothing crazy fancy:
http://vimeo.com/38481117
bump
Congrats on the install
Watched the video
Sounds just like my Berk ( I used the same decoder )
When I do a video my wife blows the whistle
I guess you let your kids do it (:-)
Going to bookmark this great thread, Jonathan.
Congrats napa and can hardly wait to make the modifications on my engines.
BTW - up next is my Bachmann HO N&W Class J #611 - Will be using the same Tsunami decoder, but the Southern Steam version for that one. That engine is at the Bachmann Service Dept right now.. so, whenever it makes its way back home... :D
And yes, the kids get to blow the horn and ring the bell. My wife, she just rolls here eyes at me. ;D
BTW Terry, where are you in FL? I'm in Jacksonville.
I just got done installing a Tsunami TSU1000 in a Bachmann J-class for a friend. I have a couple of suggestions for improving on Jonathan's fine work. To mount the speaker, I also purchased the SoundTraxx speaker gaskets. They are relatively cheap and essentially provide a custom sized circle of doublesided adhesive tape for securing/sealing the speaker to the floor. Also, I purchased the corresponding SoundTraxx speaker enclosure. With just some minor filing to the PC board supports adjacent to the speaker mount, the enclosure will fit snugly below the board. This greatly improves the sound quality to my ear.
Good luck,
Tom
SoundTraxx produces more than just decoders. They have some great accessories for your installs on their webpage. Take a look:
http://www.soundtraxx.com/access/
Quote from: napa15 on March 14, 2012, 12:07:07 PM
BTW - up next is my Bachmann HO N&W Class J #611 - Will be using the same Tsunami decoder, but the Southern Steam version for that one. That engine is at the Bachmann Service Dept right now.. so, whenever it makes its way back home... :D
And yes, the kids get to blow the horn and ring the bell. My wife, she just rolls here eyes at me. ;D
BTW Terry, where are you in FL? I'm in Jacksonville.
I'll be doing a similar install as my HO N&W J611 just arrived a few days ago. This will be my first "adventure" in the DCC world.
Clyde