Hello all,
I'm new to this forum and to DCC. I just purchased a GP 30 Diesel DCC Equipped and it's really noisy. Should I return it or is this usual before break-in?
Thanks,
Lou
jim-
It's best to tell us as much as possible about your problem. For example, tell us the manufacturers of your loco and DCC system and whether you are operating on DC or DCC. Still, I'll assume that you have Bachmann equipment and that you're using DC.
Bachmann decoders are dual mode, i.e., they operate on DC and DCC and they are able to detect which mode is available. The Bachmann decoders can be a little rough when on DC, particularly at slower speeds. You can clip the capacitors off to improve smoothness. Also, it helps to break your loco in by running it both directions and through both right- and left-hand curves. If you still have trouble after that, you might want to send the loco to Bachmann for service.
-- D
It is normal even after breaking it in, it runs fine, just loud sometimes.
Doneldon,
The loco was purchased new from eBay. It's a Bachmann GP30 DCC equipped. I'm running with a Bachman EZ Command DCC controller that I bought used from eBay. This is my first DCC loco with this contrller. The noise happens when running with the DCC controller. As soon as I turn the knob, before the loco starts moving, it makes noise. When it starts moving it makes more noises.
I just ran it with the EZ Command DC controller and the noise is not present (you can still hear the whine of the motor).
Could it be the controller that's faulty? I could take the loco and test it at the local train store...
ACY, I wouldn't want this noisy a loco on my layout. It really sounds like it's messed up.
Thanks,
L
EDIT* Just made a circle from the old EZ track and will run the loco for ten minutes forward and reverse to see if anything changes.
10 minutes in each direction is not long enough to break it in, it takes at least 40 minutes.
Will do 40 minutes. Thanks!
Quote... EZ Command DC controller ...
Would that be button 10 on your E-Z Command or would it be a dc throttle plugged into your E-Z Command? Or would it be something else?
Jim
Jim, something else... I used the basic DC controller that comes with the old Bachmann set.
After about 40 minutes of continuous running (both directions), no real change - still noise when the knob is turned, sort of the noise that you may hear on a faulty power transformer. Is that normal for Bachmann's locos?
Thanks,
L
It is not a simple situation, some noise is normal for some Bachmann locos. I cannot hear the noise it is making, so I cannot tell you specifically if the noise is normal. Also it may need additional break-in, as 40 minutes was the minimum time required.
Thanks ACY. Round and round it goes for a while longer.
the bachmann decoders in these locomotives aren't the silent running type. the noise you hear is similar to running a dc locomotive on pulse power.
Maybe that's why it was only $31.
Thanks,
L
As the saying goes, you get what you pay for-a moderate price yields what...
i'd have bought one for $31. they are good running locomotives.
as for getting what you paid for, moderate price doesn't always equal moderate quality. i've seen some really overpriced junk out there. this gp30 isn't one of them. if the noise bothers you, it should be easy to replace the decoder with one from digitrax or nce which has silent running. and you'd still be out less than the cost ofan atlas or proto engine without decoder.
Quote from: jward on April 18, 2011, 10:24:35 PM
i'd have bought one for $31. they are good running locomotives.
Indeed, they are moderately good quality, not extremely good quality, but the Spectrum locos are very nice quality for the money as are all Bachmann locos, you usually get a lot of bang for your buck with Bachmann locos.
Thanks for your comments. You're both right. It's not a bad loco, but it's noisy. It's really about my expectations. I really wanted a nice layout with top of the line this and that but now I know I can't afford one. It is so frustrating, but, like every other hobby, if you want the best, you have to pay big money.
Anyway, I was thinking of adding a sound decoder to this loco. Should I look into that, or is it not worth spending any more money on this particular engine?
L
There is not enough room for sound unless you mill out the frame, and it is not really worth it.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Eeyore.gif)
Running relatively quietly on dc but noisy on DCC confirms what Jeffery is saying. An ultrasonic "silent" decoder would fix this for less than $20. Just make sure you clip the capacitor(s) in your locomotive or it is likely to run rough. There really isn't much room for a speaker plus a baffle but you can make more room with a drill, hacksaw, files or Dremel tool and save the cost of having the frame milled (unless, of course, you happen to own a milling machine!) A better arrangement with diesels is to install a sound decoder plus speaker plus baffle in a dummy unit that runs with your present locomotive. I don't know about your neck of the woods but where I live, I almost never see a single unit working alone. So running two units together would be good prototype practice. Bachmann does not make dummy locomotives but other companies do.
There are two approaches to installing sound in a dummy locomotive. Dummies bought as dummies usually have no provisions for picking up power. Therefore they have to take their power from the driven locomotive. This usually means permanently coupling the two locomotives with some sort of draw bar replacing the couplers and always running them together. The up side of this it that a single decoder can handle both the sound and the motion.
The other approach is to strip out a power locomotive to make a dummy out of it. I particularly like older Athearn "blue box" locomotives for this as they have relatively compact frames. Once the motor, drive shafts and gears are removed, you have a roomy dummy with its own electrical pickup. You can then install a sound only decoder and power it from the dummy's own wheels. This allows you to run the sound dummy with whatever diesel you like, making just one simple address change to match the locomotives running addresses. When cost is a consideration, a motion decoder like the Digitrax DZ125 in the powered unit and a Digitrax Sound Bug in the sound dummy is a reasonable combination. As always, check the motor's stall current at 12 volts to make sure the decoder can handle it. The DZ125 is rated at 1 amp which is enough for most modern H0 locomotives and it comes with lots of goodies, BEMF control among them. This is definitely more work than just buying a dummy but the upside is that any unit pulling the sound dummy is automatically a sound locomotive. And if you shop carefully, you can often buy a faulty locomotive (usually listed on eBay as "untested") for less than you would pay for a new dummy. The dummy also provides lots of room for a baffle or you can even make the whole body into a baffle. The larger the baffle and the larger the speaker (or the more speakers) the better the low frequency sounds will be. And diesel locomotive in real life produce a lot of low frequency growl.
Jim
I have a Athearn blue-box PA dummy that has provisions for powering it, all you need to do is replace the wheels. I sure do miss those blue box kits though, I haven't seen any for sale at my local hobby shops since early 2010. 90% of the HO rolling-stock and loco sales at my one LHS was the ole Athearn blue-box kits.
if you'd like sound may i suggest the bachmann gp7? it has a plug in decoder, and the frame is already milled for a speaker. it should be pretty easy to install one of those digitrax sound bug decoders in this locomotive.
i understand about the cost factor. that's why i started buying bachmann locomotives to begin with. everybody else's prices have gone through the roof. and for me anyway, the quality of some of the high end brands is suspect. bachmann had a bad rep years ago for putting out extremely cheap and poor running locomotives (1970s, 1980s) but that is not the case anymore. now they are the best value for the price. the only thing that comes close is atlas trainman, and walthers trainline.
Jeffrey, thanks for the GP7 suggestion. I will consider for my next purchase. BTW, I'm starting research on the B&O Old Main Line.
jimenezl:
I know the focus of this thread is on the DCC system, and rightly so. But I thought I'd share the following with you:
I run only DC, and what helps my Bachmann diesel engines quieten down (some of them 100%), is taking the shell off and lubing particularly the two motor shaft bearings and the 4 gear tower bearings on each side of the two worm gears. Most of these are easily accessable.
I admit this may not help in your case, but it won't hurt. My thinking on this is that a lot of these engines seem to be possibly thinly oiled at the manufacturing facillity (not only of the assembling of the engines but the manufacuring of the motors themselves which may be from another supplier/location.) Also, as you know when most lubrication sits for a long time (like for years on a hobby shop shelf) it dries out and this usually causes metal/metal friction which in turn creates noise. Relubing in this case is the simple fix.
Hope this is helpful.
K487
K,
Thanks much for the lubing suggestion. What kind of oil or grease should I use?
Lou
jimenez-
There are several brands of model grease and all are fine. Just make sure than any lubricants you use are marked as "plastic compatible." Other lubes will soften the plastic parts and ruin them.
-- D
jimenez:
You're welcome.
Donaldon hit the nail on the head.
A good brand of oil and grease is Label - get at any hobby shop. One advantage Label has is they have some applicators with oil that have needles so you can put a very small drop or two just where you want it.
I myself have been using (for 20 years) Wahl hair clipper oil. I buy it at the local barber shop (last time cost was $2 and it lasts years.) This Wahl oil is what I use on Bmann's engine bearings (and many other applications too), and I put the oil in a needle applicator to apply it. But most any light plastic-compatible oil will work.
K487
All, I removed the shell and it was a lot quieter. I noticed that the motor and whole frame vibrate when the motor turns and that's what's making the noise. With the shell on, the noise is greatly amplified. Is there anything I can do to the shell to deaden it? I also applied grease to the gears and it's quieter now.
Thanks,
L
Jimenez:
Some of the vibration in the shell can be caused by dry bearings vibrating and sending this thru the frame into the shell. Be sure to oil the bearings mentioned in this thread.
Re the shell, I think the following has helped me some. I put black electrician tape strips on the horozontal parts of the metal frame that the shell sits on, and per a suggestion I read somewhere, I cut a piece of duct tape to fit the underside of the shell roof (behind the cab) and stick it in there. At the worst these things can't hurt.
K487
K, I don't know what the bearings are. I lubed the worm gear that drives the gears in the trucks.
Thanks,
L
I use Labelle 102 gear oil with a puff of 134 lubricating powder in gears and couplings. I think this now come in a single bottle also.
For oil, I use LaBelle 108 oil for bearings.
All I have is HO.
Rich
I had bought a Bachmann DCC Santa Fe GP-30 .When I increased throttle it would whine until I got about mid throttle or 50% . When I started to decrease "slow down" the whine would come back until it came to a complete stop . It wouldn't do it either on DC power . I returned it ,and got another GP-30 same Locomotive ,and just had the normal noise you would here from a Bachmann decoder . The noise it makes at a nudge , just slowly starting . I've bought $30.00 to $100.00 DCC Bachmann Locomotive's and haven't had nothing but good luck with them . In HO that's all I run . I have put TCS decoders in a few Bachmann DC Locomotives and didn't like how they ran . I think Jim Banner recommended cutting out the caps on the board I never got around to doing that to see if that helped. I ventured off into Large Scale and haven't ran my HO layout lately .
i've had good luck as well except for a pair of gp40s i picked up used at a train show. the decoders on both of them won't respond to any system i've tried (digitrax, nce, mrc prodigy) so i think i'll invest another $20 apiece and get decoders for them.