Bachmann Online Forum

Hi everyone, this is my first post.
I want to convert to DCC. I need two throttles (two kids, two throttles = less arguing). Can someone tell me what equipment I should get to make this happen? I just need basic throttle functions nothing too complicated for the kids. thanks Bruce

You want Product Code: 44902 (E-Z Command Digital Command Control System) & Product Code: 44907 (E-Z Command® Walk-Around Companion (with Connector Wires)). You cannot buy 2 of product code 44902 and connect them together. Make sure you are clear what you are buying if you purchase online, because it can get confusing.

There are many good systems out there that will work.  Many under $200 for the base system and add-on throttles under $75.  What are your long term plans for DCC?  Future plans need more then four throttles at one time?  What scale are you working in?  How many locomotives do you plan to run one one train?

Every one has their favorite brand, and many will tell you 'only look here'.  If there are any clubs near where you are at take a look at what they are using.  If there is a hobby shop within a reasonable drive, see what they have.

I use the NCE system.  The low cost one is the Power Cab.  It will allow only two throttles with the base system.  Adding an SB3a will allow four throttles.  Everything will also work with there Power Pro series which will allow about 60 throttles with wireless ones if that works for you.

Quote from: Nathan on May 03, 2011, 05:21:55 PM
There are many good systems out there that will work.  Many under $200 for the base system and add-on throttles under $75.  What are your long term plans for DCC?  Future plans need more then four throttles at one time?  What scale are you working in?  How many locomotives do you plan to run one one train?
Every one has their favorite brand, and many will tell you 'only look here'.  If there are any clubs near where you are at take a look at what they are using.  If there is a hobby shop within a reasonable drive, see what they have.

Nathan he said quote

QuoteI just need basic throttle functions nothing too complicated for the kids.

That pretty much limits you to an E-Z Command, because most of if not all the full systems are pretty complicated at least when you start out.

QuoteThat pretty much limits you to an E-Z Command, because most of if not all the full systems are pretty complicated at least when you start out.

I would have to disagree here. We have kids at our local club running several systems. And by kids I mean young lads (and some ladies too). I say shop around and get several opinions before you buy. Go talk to your local hoppy store and they will help you out a lot.

-Brad

I would say that it depends on where and why the simplicity is needed.  One of the things I like about my Digitrax Zephyr starter system is that is can do about everything in terms of programming but the basic throttles are simple to operate.  That makes it a good choice if the simplicity is for the kids but Pop doesn't mind a bit of learning.  On the other hand, if the simplicity requirement is for everyone including Dad, then the E-Z Command is a better (and cheaper) choice.

Jim 

the nice thing about the zephyr is that you can plug in two dc controllers to it and have a 3 person railroad. the zephyr allows you to assign certain locomotives to the dc controllers, but leaves this choice up to the person using the zephyr throttle. if the kids are running on the dc controllers, there is no way they can accidentally reprogram something. they are limited to speed and direction controls, while you retain ultimate control of the entire railroad.

For simplicity and value E-Z Command is the way to go!

lance-

I won't try to tell you what to do, at least as far as what system to buy, but I will suggest that you give yourself a week to make your decision.

I'm rather stunned by how fast this thread has caught fire with what seems to include some strong personal feelings. It seems to me that the various opinions are premature in that they come from far too little information beyond your statement that you just need something simple for the children. I don't doubt that is true, but simple is a concept with little consensus as to meaning, so what you mean and what the other posters mean may be the same or miles apart. Moreover, simplicity is only one issue which influences a decision about what system to buy. Please notice here that I'm not advocating for or against any of the recommended systems. Indeed, I could make a case for any of the suggested systems, depending on just what you need and/or want. And that's my point: your decision needs to be predicated on a fuller understanding of just what is important to you, not just a statement which understandably means different things to different people.

Accordingly, please tell us more about what you're looking for in a simple or entry level system. How old are your children? Do you expect their interest in model railroading to continue for a while or be gone before the end of summer? Do you plan to be part of the hobby with your boys? Exactly what do you want your system to do beyond making trains run around in a circle? How many trains do you anticipate will be running at one time? What are your expectations, if any, about future expansion? Will you be running trains with sound and/or lights? Do you think you might want to dabble in computer interfaces with model trains? Do you anticipate that your children will have friends in model railroading or that they'll join a model railroading club? What about you?

Now I'm not trying to sound like the grand inquisitor here; I'm merely pointing out that a lot more goes into a decision about what DCC system to buy or, for that matter, whether DCC is a better option than "simple" DC.

That brings us full circle to my original point. Advice is premature when it's based on only minimal information. Tell us more and I think the other posters, and even I, will be able to offer suggestions which will be much more useful because they'll be based on needed information.
                                                                         -- D

Lance,
Just to say I just recently started back in this great hobby. There is a couple of things I will say and that is I did alot of research and decided to go with all Bachmann equipment thinking small at the time. Well low and behold my layout is 16x16x10.5 in a U shape. And to think it all started with the diesel digital commander set which I am very happy with. Believe it or not this layout is all controlled by the Bachmann DCC command controller. I do not (at this time anyway)plan on running more than three trains at one time. If I do upgrade it will be much later after I get my feet wet on this DCC system and I am sure I can sell off the old to someone wanting to give it a try and then upgrade. I would start with a little starer set as I did and get a walk around controller and take it from there. My local train club uses a much more sophisticated system but they also run 15 to 20 trains at once and they also said the bachmann system is the best starter set to get me started and I can just grow from there.
Jerry

Bruce, the one thing that no one has mentioned is that with any of these systems you must read the manual.

We who have been doing this awhile hear about problems that could have been avoided if the person with their new DCC system had read the manual thoroughly.

Have fun!

I use the EZ command for my two girls 6yrs and 4yrs Very easy for them to use.

I have not bought the Companion yet... But its coming soon, the little one likes to crash things, so two engineers at once have to share one throttle for now.

NM

Wow thanks everyone for taking the time to give me the benefit of your experience. Your input has helped immensely, although I am now wondering if the Bachmann turnouts # 44559 & 44560 are compatible (powered frog issue) or will they need to be changed out.   Thanks again Bruce

Your turnouts are probably ok with DCC.  "DCC friendly" turnouts generally have an insulated frog and the point rails (the ones that move) have the same polarity as the stock rails right beside them.  The insulated frogs allow all rails to be continuously powered which in turn makes it easy to manufacture the turnouts with the point rails matching polarity with their stock rails.  The Bachmann turnouts I have (product number unknown) are wired that way.

Even turnouts that were not designed to be DCC friendly rarely have shorting problems with diesels and short wheel base steamers.  Long steamers with sets of 6 or 8 or more drivers can be troublesome if the drivers on one side touch both the point rail and its stock rail and that stock rail is NOT the same polarity as the point rail.  Often it is possible to temporarily relieve this problem with a bit of nail polish to insulate one or the other rail.  On my own H0 layout, I have more than 50 turnouts all manufactured in the days pre-DCC.  Only one was troublesome all the time until I rebuilt it to be DCC friendly.  Another is troublesome only occasionally and only with Hudson (4-6-4) locomotives.  Consolidations (2-8-0) locomotives rarely if ever cause a problem at this turnout.

Why were there no problems in the days of dc?  DC power packs were protected by circuit breakers which took several seconds, sometimes up to a minute, to trip.  By then, the offending locomotive was long gone from the short circuit site.  DCC systems are protected by "electronic circuit breakers" which shut off the power in milliseconds, stopping the the offending locomotive where it shorted and continues to short circuit the track.   On my own layout, I find operator error, usually running through turnouts set the wrong way, is much more common than shorting at non DCC friendly turnouts.

Bottom line, if you already have the turnouts in place, try running with them.  If they work, they work.  If not, then it is time to think about changing them out.  If they are electric remote control, just leave all that wiring as is including whatever is powering them (your dc power pack maybe?)

Jim

Hello to all those who proceed to give advice without reading what the enquirer wants.It has me beaten as to why some of you participate on the Bachmann Forum when your talk seems to promote other systems.I suggest you change your allegiance to the NCE and Digitrax Forums.There is heaps to read and improve your technical qualifications on these other products.I suggest you learn more about the Dynamis.Lenz is no slouch in the DCC stakes.So
much for my dollars worth,AU or US.
Burto

it's simple. ez command most likely isn't going to do what he wants to do, and dynamis is probably too pricey for use with kids. since there isn't a realistic option using bachmann products, other brands were suggested. model railroading isn't about brand loyalty as much as getting what fits your needs.

Sounds to me like E-Z Command is exactly what he needs. A simple, easy to use system.

I have 2 newly acquired grandsons, due to I recently got married. Anyway one is 6 and one is 3 .I taught the 3 year old almost 4 to use my EZ command in about 2 sessions . Although I had to watch him as he wanted to touch the train as it went by . He did a good job of engineering . The other grandson the 6 year old doesn't have the interest that the 3 year old has . When they both wanted to run their own train I put a small string on the outter 22" rad loop and another string on the 18" rad inner loop .Closed off the crossovers so we wouldn't have a crash . And set them up to run .The boys loved it as they had their own train and would take turns starting and stopping their Loco . The cool part was I had enough different equipment , I let them choose what they wanted for an engine and rolling stock . And with 2 trains going while the one boy was engineering the other ones was still running and he was able to watch his string and keep him occupied . Then I get the older one asking me after about 15 minutes , can we go ride the 4 wheeler or take me for a ride on the harley or play video games . The 3 yr old loves trains , the 6 yr old likes them but has other interest . If they don't have the same interest .Then I would go with the EZ commander .

the point is EZ command is simple and works for the guy just making the jump and is not so high priced that your average economic slave can't afford it . Again I have all Bachmann DCC diesel Locomotives a total of 34  last count Bachmann rolling stock and some other manufacturer's rolling stock

best regards :mark f  MF5117

My point exactly Mark! E-Z Command is a great way to learn about Digital Command Control at a very affordable price. It's also very child friendly.

Burto-

I'm not sure I get your point. First you seem to be critical of folks who like equipment other than Bachmann but then you seem to endorse Lenz. What do you mean?

Others-

Absent more information from the OP, it's hard to make a suggestion. With the meagre information we have so far it would seem the EZ DCC would do satisfactorially. It does have some expansion capability (walk around companions and a booster) which is good. It's only real liabilities are the very high cost of the booster to run more trains and the fact that it cannot be made to program or read CVs. (As I've said before, I don't think the ability to assign one of ten numbers to a loco and the ability to set forward and reverse fulfill the definition of "programable," even if they fit the term in a limited, technical sense.)

I still hope for more information from the OP
                                                                                          -- D

I have a plan that I believe will work and in the process of doing, that is everyone talks ez command only allows up to 10 locos. Well I cannot see myself running ten much less 4 at one time so I figured I can program as many as I like if I make toggled tracks off of my turntable that way I can park  #1 toggle that track off and power up my other #1 by switching that toggle. It seems I can assign as many as I like just by turning track power on and off to that section. As for programming cv's  that'll be another bridge later. This is a low cost alternative any thoughts out there?

 have a plan that I believe will work and in the process of doing, that is everyone talks ez command only allows up to 10 locos. Well I cannot see myself running ten much less 4 at one time so I figured I can program as many as I like if I make toggled tracks off of my turntable that way I can park  #1 toggle that track off and power up my other #1 by switching that toggle. It seems I can assign as many as I like just by turning track power on and off to that section. As for programming cv's  that'll be another bridge later. This is a low cost alternative any thoughts out there?

Actually that should work provided that you:

1)Have Enough space for all the sidings you would need and
2) Can keep track of which loco you are running

Joe

I have ran 7 trains at one time with my EZ command . But usually 1 on the outter loop and 1 on the inner loop going opposite directions . Got an 18"rad upper level short oval with 3 switches ,I run a FT-AB unit with passengers ,4 car set .  And do some switching in the inner part of the layout with a 70 tonner and a Gp 38 . Have never had power issues on a 5x9 layout ,With 12 switches and 2 #6 crossovers which I use another controller to control and power my turnouts . I don't have any feeders , I always here about needing feeder wires ran . Something else I don't understand is I have plugged my EZ command in every you are not sapposed to and I haven't fried it or smoked any Locomotives . Now I have had some derails and shorted the rails and got the blinker .But all in all For what it is great product . Started with it and expanded with it . For my HO layout its works for me ,as the Bachmann Locomotives are par for the course ,I love them .  as for my G scale ,until I learn alittle more about it and when I decide to go in a different direction on DCC or battery power R/C . I'll stick with my DC power and run one string and my little speeder .

For the money Bachmann DCC Locomotives are the way to go . And the EZ command !
If you tend to by DC Locomotives and are a decoder installer or plug and play, yes you may need to buy a more advanced system . But for being simple and not having to spend a bunch of money and still get good quality for the money and have a nice size layout 4x8 5x9 or what ever .you can't go wrong .

i have a turntable area on my layout as well. i am doing just as jerry is planning to do. you can buy ganaged banks of toggle slide switches in different configurations made by atlas, which are surface mounted and extremely easy to wire. the ones i am using come in banks of 3 spst (on/off) switches called the connector.

i assume you are using the bachmann turntable. i am not sure whether this one automatically  switches polarity like the atlas one i am using (bachmann's wasn't available when i bought mine) but if it doesn't, atlas also makes a bank of two spdt slide switches wires for use with reversing loops and turntables. they are called the twin.

using these switches will dramatically lower the power demand on your dcc command station, whatever brand you use. and they cost much less than a booster.

nope I have the atlas turntable also. I also planned on powering the switches with another source, possibly the one I have running my turnouts/switches. I have not started the process yet so if you can keep me posted on how it all works for you that would be great.
Jerry

Quote from: lanceraider on May 03, 2011, 04:52:45 PM
I need two throttles... I just need basic throttle functions nothing too complicated...
thanks Bruce

lanceraider has told us what he wants.  Based on that, let us do some comparisons.  I have not looked for the best prices on the net - I have simply used manufacturers' list price.

E-Z Command c/w two throttles
BASIC SET                      $145
COMPANION THROTTLE   $132
TOTAL                            $277
UPGRADE                       none possible
PROGRAMMING               address only

Dynamis c/w two throttles
BASIC SET                      $350
PRO BOX                        $500
HAND SET                      $170
TOTAL                            $1020
UPGRADE                       up to 3 additional throttles at $170 each
PROGRAMMING               can program all CV's

Digitrax Zephyr X
BASIC SET                      $225
BASIC THROTTLE             $59*
TOTAL                             $284
UPGRADE                        up to 1 additional basic throttle at $59* and up to 10 additional UT4 throttles at $80
PROGRAMMING               can program all CV's
*based on using Bachmann 44212 power packs as jump throttles

I agree with Yardmaster that the E-Z Command is a simple, easy to learn, child friendly and cheap.  But I am not convinced that it is the best bang for the buck.  The Zephyr Xtra with 2 throttles is only $8 more than the E-Z Command with two throttles.  However, if lanceraider has a dc power pack already on hand, the Zephyr with 2 throttles would be $51 cheaper than the E-Z Command with 2throttles.  Even if the E-Z Command can be found with a deeper discount that the Zephyr, I feel the Zephyr is still a better bang for the buck because of two additional features: Additional throttles can be added so that Dad or a friend of the boys can play along too and as Dad and the boys become more familiar with the capabilities of DCC, they will reach a point where they want to fine tune their decoders beyond just changing addresses and defining which end of the locomotive is front.

The Dynamis recommended by Burto is by far the most expensive of the three systems priced above.  It does have some nice features including the infrared wireless controls.  If that were a requirement, then a Digitrax infrared receiver, two UT4 throttles and the Zephyr would give 3 throttles (2 of them wireless) at a cost of $431, or less than half the cost of a Dynamis with 2 throttles.

Burto seems to be at a loss as to why various posters would talk about other systems on this board.  Perhaps I can explain.  None of us is telling lance what he must or even should buy.  We are simply making suggestions while trying to help him find the best fit for him.  If he and his boys are happy with their choice, he and they are likely to use it for many years to come, buying more Bachmann trains along the way.  If they are unhappy with their choice, they will either have to invest additional money into this part of their railroad which will limit their buying in other areas, or, perish the thought, they might drop out of model railroading altogether which would be both our loss and their loss.  If it seems at times that different people are promoting different system, I can only say that I for one try to confine myself to systems I know.  I do not talk about, for example, NCE even though I understand they make fine products.  I do not discuss them because I do not have any experience with them.  Some other brands I do not discuss because I either dislike their products or have lost respect for the company producing them.

Jim

my turntable still has the hand crank. i haven't gotten around to motorizing it yet. reportedly you gan install a decoder on the motor, and use your dcc to run the table.

to wire the connectors, you'd first run one wire to one of the rails of each of your radial tracks around the turntable. this is a common rail, and all these rwires are connected together and connected to one of the rails on your main track.. which rail is determined by which position around the turntable the track is. if you look carefully, each of the track slots has either an "a" or a "b" molded into it. a and b tracks are wired opposite "polarities" from each other. the important thing is to make sure that the polarity of each radial matches that of the turntable itself.

you then run one wire from the other rail of the main track, to the left side of the connector. the three terminals at the top of the connector are wired to the radial tracks, one to each track opposite the common wire you installed earlier. additional connectors to control additional tracks can be connected to the right side otf the first connector.


wiring his way you won't need an additional power supply.

note: be absolutely certain you have the polarity of all the radial tracks correct before you try to run a locomotive into the tracks. if the polarity is wrong you will have a dead short through the locomotive.