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Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: judgethe on May 19, 2011, 06:11:51 AM



Title: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 19, 2011, 06:11:51 AM
Sorry guys but I need some advice again.

Just received my 2 new steam locomotives from mail this morning. I bought Bachmann Spectrum 2-10-2 Chicago & Illinois and Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central. Both locomotives are new.

Spectrum 2-10-2 works perfectly without any problems. But the other Bachmann 4-8-4 won't work on DCC at all. Tried 2 different controllers, Bachmann E-Z Command and Hornby Select and still same result, not responding. At first the front light lights up but it just won't go when I pressed address number 3. After a while the front/rear lights no longer working. Not only that I tried it on 2 separate programming tracks and still I can't get it to work on DCC. Checked the plugs and got them into correct position and I'm pretty sure I pushed them hard into the slot too. Then I tried to run that 4-8-4 using a normal DC analogue controller and it works perfectly.

Does this mean the 4-8-4 faulty? Could anyone please advice?

Thank you


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: jonathan on May 19, 2011, 06:40:00 AM
I am still a novice when it comes to DCC, but it sounds like your decoder is not set to address '3'.

The fact that your loco runs in DC tells me the locomotive is fine.  Also, you mentioned the lights come on in DCC mode, but the wheels won't turn.  In DCC the lights eventually cut off to prevent overload/burnout.  That has been my experience so far.

You can experiment by trading decoders with your 2-10-2.  My guess is the 4-8-4 will run with the other decoder.

Is the 4-8-4 brand new, meaning never opened by anyone but you?  Sounds like someone changed the address to something your controllers can't read. 

This is a big guess on my part.  My limited experience is what leads me to this conclusion.

Regards,

Jonathan


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 19, 2011, 06:52:13 AM
the lights came on for a short while before totally went off. yes the 4-8-4 is a new locomotive so by default it should be on address 3.
i'm too exhausted to keep trying... been trying for the past 4 hrs. really hope my student allowance won't go down the drain with a faulty new 4-8-4
 


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: jonathan on May 19, 2011, 07:02:45 AM
A little experimenting won't cost a thing, but time.

The worst case scenario is that you'll have to get a new decoder.  That would probably be cheaper than boxing up the loco and shipping it to the Service Folks.

I think you have already isolated the problem, a big plus.

Regards,

Jonathan


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: poliss on May 19, 2011, 09:35:10 AM
Are you in the Uk and did you buy from a retailer based in the UK? Was the loco brand new? If so, contact the seller and tell them the problem to arrange for return and replacement. It is up to them to pay for all postage when an item is faulty.
Do not open the loco and attempt to repair it yourself as this will invalidate your guarantee.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: Jim Banner on May 19, 2011, 02:44:52 PM
May I suggest that you try programming your 4-8-4 to address 03 before doing anything radical.  A new decoder is supposed to be set to address 03 but that is no guarantee that it actually is.  Use your E-Z Command and the instructions in your manual for programming a locomotive with an unknown address.

Another test you can perform without opening up anything is to attempt to run the locomotive on address 10 using your E-Z Command.  This is normally used for running locomotives that have no decoder installed and while it generates a dc voltage, it does so by stretching some of the DCC pulses.  The presence of DCC pulses will prevent a locomotive with a decoder from converting to dc operation so if your locomotive runs on address 10, it does not have a decoder installed.

I agree with not opening the locomotive to check out the decoder but only because the decoder is located in the tender.  Swapping decoders to change performance characteristics is so common that I would be very surprised if Bachmann would refuse to honour their warranty just because you opened the tender.  If you have any doubts about this, give the service department a ring  and ask.  (If you are in the UK, then by all means make use of the time difference - call late enough to get night rates but early enough to catch Bachmann still open.)

Jim


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 19, 2011, 03:08:48 PM
Are you in the Uk and did you buy from a retailer based in the UK? Was the loco brand new? If so, contact the seller and tell them the problem to arrange for return and replacement. It is up to them to pay for all postage when an item is faulty.
Do not open the loco and attempt to repair it yourself as this will invalidate your guarantee.

i'm in new zealand and yes the loco is brand new. i bought them from a factory authorized dealer in ebay (thefavoritespot). in fact this is my third locomotive from them.

emailed them last night and still awaiting their reply. ok i won't try to swap decoder.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 19, 2011, 03:24:09 PM
May I suggest that you try programming your 4-8-4 to address 03 before doing anything radical.  A new decoder is supposed to be set to address 03 but that is no guarantee that it actually is.  Use your E-Z Command and the instructions in your manual for programming a locomotive with an unknown address.

Another test you can perform without opening up anything is to attempt to run the locomotive on address 10 using your E-Z Command.  This is normally used for running locomotives that have no decoder installed and while it generates a dc voltage, it does so by stretching some of the DCC pulses.  The presence of DCC pulses will prevent a locomotive with a decoder from converting to dc operation so if your locomotive runs on address 10, it does not have a decoder installed.

I agree with not opening the locomotive to check out the decoder but only because the decoder is located in the tender.  Swapping decoders to change performance characteristics is so common that I would be very surprised if Bachmann would refuse to honour their warranty just because you opened the tender.  If you have any doubts about this, give the service department a ring  and ask.  (If you are in the UK, then by all means make use of the time difference - call late enough to get night rates but early enough to catch Bachmann still open.)

Jim

hi jim,

i'm located at auckland, new zealand and i think we don't have a bachmann representative here. i'm not going to do anything yet and will not try to swap the decoder and still awaiting reply from thefavoritespot. i'm surprise as they still didn't reply to me back. normally when i asked for an invoice for combine shipping they replied back within 30mins!


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 19, 2011, 08:48:55 PM
just received reply from the seller and i was given only 2 options. send it back to bachmann USA for warranty or return it back for refund. sending it back all the way from nz to USA will cost me almost nearly the price i paid for the steam locomotive. i did contact bachmann USA for their technical advise through their online form but so far still nothing from bachmann.

i would appreciate if someone from bachmann USA perhaps could provide some kind of assistance help me to solve this problem.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: ACY on May 19, 2011, 08:59:41 PM
Because you live in New Zealand, you put yourself in a bad spot buying from anywhere outside of New Zealand. The seller cannot do anything about it because, it is not their fault and they cannot prevent a loco from being defective, so they should not have to cover shipping becuase they did not make an error. It is not their fault you live in NZ and shipping costs so much, you were the one that chose to buy from them. If you still have your receipt, your best option is to send it in to Bachmann service with the receipt and Bachmann can repair or replace it. I am not sure how return shipping works though, I know within the US and Canada they cover it, but I am not sure about everywhere else. Call them tomorrow, as you will get a quicker response that way as opposed to contacting them online.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 19, 2011, 09:16:06 PM
Because you live in New Zealand, you put yourself in a bad spot buying from anywhere outside of New Zealand. The seller cannot do anything about it because, it is not their fault and they cannot prevent a loco from being defective, so they should not have to cover shipping becuase they did not make an error. It is not their fault you live in NZ and shipping costs so much, you were the one that chose to buy from them. If you still have your receipt, your best option is to send it in to Bachmann service with the receipt and Bachmann can repair or replace it. I am not sure how return shipping works though, I know within the US and Canada they cover it, but I am not sure about everywhere else. Call them tomorrow, as you will get a quicker response that way as opposed to contacting them online.

true the main problem is i'm located in new zealand and it's always a risk buying from abroad when something like this happened. it's so complicated. will give them a call tomorrow.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: Doneldon on May 19, 2011, 11:09:48 PM
judge-

No! The problem is not that you live in New Zealand or that you purchased something from outside of your country. You have exactly the same right as anyone else stateside has to get a correctly operating locomotive for your money. It's not like your seller gave you half off because you were buying merchandise which might be defective. You paid what you paid and you paid your expensive shipping to New Zealand in good faith. You should have received properly functioning merchandise. But you didn't. I believe that either Bachmann or the Favorite Spot should make things right for you. Unless you were explicitly warned in advance that you might receive defective merchandise which they would not stand behind, it is up to those two firms to stand behind the product they manufactured and sold.

I, myself, am personally offended that neither firm is willing to correct this situation. I am offended, too, that someone on this Board would have the temerity to blame you for your misfortune.

I call on Bachmann and The Favorite Place to replace your model at no cost to you and I call on ACY to personally apologize to you for his intemperate and blaming commentary.

I will send a copy of this post to the Favorite Place, to ACY and as a separate posting to the Bachmann.
                                                                                                                                                     -- D




Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: ACY on May 19, 2011, 11:37:31 PM
The Favorite Spot stated  "Please read the following prior to bidding." (in big bold letters):
12.  Warranties for repair, replacement and service are issued by and are the responsibility of the manufacturer.  Please contact the manufacturer for any warranty issues. We do not test brand new items before sending them. We cannot guarantee that your locomotive will not be defective.
13.  If you purchased an item from us and you want to return it please request written permission and the proper address for the return prior to sending it back.  If an item is returned a refund will be sent but it will not cover the cost of any shipping or handling charges.
Also they state that:
1.  The item in this auction is brand new in the manufacturer's original packaging. It has never been used in any manner. We are a factory authorized dealer for every item that we sell.
 Also the third line of the auction at the top of the page they state their return policy:
14 day money back, buyer pays return shipping including for defective items

Judge is entitled to return the merchandise per the seller's return policy, which is 14 days money back less the return shipping. It is not the seller's fault that the return shipping would cost almost as much as the locomotive. Hopefully, Bachmann will service the loco for him without any return shipping charges.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 20, 2011, 12:01:37 AM
judge-

No! The problem is not that you live in New Zealand or that you purchased something from outside of your country. You have exactly the same right as anyone else stateside has to get a correctly operating locomotive for your money. It's not like your seller gave you half off because you were buying merchandise which might be defective. You paid what you paid and you paid your expensive shipping to New Zealand in good faith. You should have received properly functioning merchandise. But you didn't. I believe that either Bachmann or the Favorite Spot should make things right for you. Unless you were explicitly warned in advance that you might receive defective merchandise which they would not stand behind, it is up to those two firms to stand behind the product they manufactured and sold.

I, myself, am personally offended that neither firm is willing to correct this situation. I am offended, too, that someone on this Board would have the temerity to blame you for your misfortune.

I call on Bachmann and The Favorite Place to replace your model at no cost to you and I call on ACY to personally apologize to you for his intemperate and blaming commentary.

I will send a copy of this post to the Favorite Place, to ACY and as a separate posting to the Bachmann.
                                                                                                                                                     -- D




hi everyone,

it's not my intention to create a havoc in here. the first time i joined this forum it was when i can't get my new bachmann turntable to work and folks around here were really helpful. in the end we found out (ACY was the one suspected my hornby controller since the beginning of the ordeal) it was my hornby digital select controller that refused to work with the new turntable. without everyone's input i won't be able to solve it by myself and you know what i've been proud to showcase my bachmann dcc turntable to my friends.

well i'm just so unlucky this time with a new non-working dcc onboard 4-8-4. maybe i got too emotional as it was my student allowance which i spent on getting 2 steam locomotives and 1 is still not working at all.

thefavoritespot replied back to me and he explained the options that i have. but it will be much more better if someone from bachmann could provide some advise so that i could decide the next course of action.

again, my apology if i'm making things complicated in here.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 20, 2011, 05:25:14 AM
May I suggest that you try programming your 4-8-4 to address 03 before doing anything radical.  A new decoder is supposed to be set to address 03 but that is no guarantee that it actually is.  Use your E-Z Command and the instructions in your manual for programming a locomotive with an unknown address.

Another test you can perform without opening up anything is to attempt to run the locomotive on address 10 using your E-Z Command.  This is normally used for running locomotives that have no decoder installed and while it generates a dc voltage, it does so by stretching some of the DCC pulses.  The presence of DCC pulses will prevent a locomotive with a decoder from converting to dc operation so if your locomotive runs on address 10, it does not have a decoder installed.

I agree with not opening the locomotive to check out the decoder but only because the decoder is located in the tender.  Swapping decoders to change performance characteristics is so common that I would be very surprised if Bachmann would refuse to honour their warranty just because you opened the tender.  If you have any doubts about this, give the service department a ring  and ask.  (If you are in the UK, then by all means make use of the time difference - call late enough to get night rates but early enough to catch Bachmann still open.)

Jim

hi jim,

pressed address number 10 on my e-z command and the 4-8-4 wasn't responding at all so like you said earlier, it does equipped with a dcc decoder then. i'm still awaiting bachmann response before trying to swap with my extra bachmann 44915 dcc locomotive decoder. trying not to void any warranty issue yet so hopefully someone from bachmann will get back to me.

thank you.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: poliss on May 20, 2011, 10:32:09 AM
As you are in New Zealand, the seller is in the USA and it was an auction item your options are limited. By all means wait for a response from Bachmann.
If the option they give is to send the loco back to them and the cost would be too high for you there are some things you could do. It's possible that circuit boards etc. have come loose in the postal system.
I presume a service sheet came with the loco? Take the top off the tender and make sure the decoder is properly plugged into it's socket. Take a good look around to see if any contact strips, such as part No's MTB33 on the tender wheels, are where they should be. Look out for wires that have come loose.



Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: BestSnowman on May 20, 2011, 03:20:42 PM
If it runs perfectly on DC and shipping it back to the sender or Bachmann you still have other options.

If there is a club nearby that has experience with DCC and decoder programming you could ask them to take a look at it, it might be the case where it's not configured correctly.

If the cost of shipping makes warranty repairs unfeasible you could always replace the decoder yourself or find someone more local since the locomotive works fine.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: jonathan on May 20, 2011, 04:14:04 PM
I went back to your original post, just to make sure.  I have to say Matthew's advice sounds right to me.  I still feel something simple is wrong.  You will not void the warranty by opening the tender to check connections or replace/test the decoder.  You will void the warranty by trying to make unnecessary modifications.

Consider how far across the planet your loco has traveled to get you.  Today's packaging is not as cushioned as it once was. I have received at least two locomotives that needed some simple tweaking because things got a little loosened in shipping.

If indeed your loco ran well with a DC controller, then you need to check in the tender.  It can't hurt to look.  Just take your time and don't overcrank or pull too hard on anything.  I still believe you have a decoder problem.  Decoders can be had pretty cheap, lest they are rare in your part of the world.  Haven't searched for a hobby store in New Zealand, yet. On my to do list...  Good Luck. I'm sending you some positive waves (sic).

Regards,

Jonathan


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 20, 2011, 04:59:09 PM
thankz everyone for your inputs. my friend will pick me up later and he will help me to program the 4-8-4 from "unknown" to another new address. if that still won't work then we'll try to swap with another dcc decoder which i have an extra one at the moment.

will keep you guys posted.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 21, 2011, 02:47:53 AM
just got back from from my friend's place. good news and bad news.

good news:
we fixed the 4-8-4. we reprogrammed the 4-8-4 from an unknown address to a new address using steps available in bachmann e-z command manual. so it's working perfectly now.

bad news:
previously i did tried pressing address number 1-10 on my e-z command but the 4-8-4 just didn't response. so there could be a possibility the 4-8-4 might have a different address than 1-10. or it could be a faulty decoder perhaps? but upon further observation on the locomotive wheels we discovered something very disturbing. well i think the seller himself wasn't really aware with the 4-8-4 conditions at all and all these beyond his control.

maybe someone from bachmann could provide some kind of explanation on this matter. unfortunately there still no response from bachmann.

i emailed the seller and told him the same thing about the unknown address and our discovery on the wheels. like what i told him, i'm not a fussy guy but as long as the 4-8-4 is working and running perfectly then it's fine with me and it's working perfectly at the moment.

so just another unlucky day for me


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: poliss on May 21, 2011, 08:05:41 AM
What's wrong with the wheels?


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: ACY on May 21, 2011, 11:38:24 AM
Like I said before if it is really necessary to get in contact with Bachmann you should call them 9-5 Eastern Standard Time, Monday through Friday.


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: Doneldon on May 21, 2011, 07:06:43 PM
judge-

What did you find with your wheels?

                                  -- D


Title: Re: My new Bachmann 4-8-4 New York Central (DCC onboard) won't run on DCC
Post by: judgethe on May 21, 2011, 07:48:12 PM
will try get some pics up soon but i don't have a good camera that could zoom into the locomotive wheels. i'm trying my best not to create any misunderstanding on the wheels since it was our observation and we could be wrong too. perhaps after seller got back to me then i'll update everyone the outcome on the wheels.

for the time being send me a message and i'll explain the wheels condition through message.

*** i've updated everything in my new thread/topic so i'm going to lock this one ***