I have two ovals connected using two Bachman crossovers. I want to separate
the two and use two separate power supplies, one for each oval. How can I
disconnect the transfer of current between the two ovals? Can I simply snip
the red wires in the crossovers? If so, how many should be snipped? There
are two pairs in each crossover. Thanks for any info you can provide. I am
very new as this but have a fair understanding of basic circuits. This is a
DC only setup using Bachman Easy-Trac.
Either cut the rails at the crossover or use insulating rail joiners depending on what you are using for your crossover.
Cutting the rails of the crossover seems a little like brute force.
Bachmann crossovers were not made for DC use though, they were made for DCC only.
reg-
Well, it's not "brute force;" it's really a common way to interrupt the current flow. In truth, getting the rail joiners off so you can replace them with insulated rail joiners will probably require more effort and force than merely cutting the rails. Bachmann puts them on to stay. You have to be very careful not to damage the track when removing installed rail joiners.
If you do cut the rails, be sure to CA a thin piece of plastic in the gap and use a scalpel or hobby knife to cut it to the contour of the rails. Otherwise some expansion and contraction could cause the rail ends to touch and short out.
If you remove the existing rail joiners, first use a knife or tiny screwdriver to spread the open end of the joiners, as far as bending the sides away from the rail. (Don't even think of reusing the rail joiners; you'll be disappointed if you try.) then gently wiggle the joiner until the little bond between the bottom of the joiner and the bottom of the rail is loosened. Then go ahead and pull the joiner off. You can carefully slide the rail back into position in the event that you pull it out when pulling on the joiner. Be very careful to put pressure only in line with the axis of the rail. If you twist or go to either side there is a high probability that you'll damage the tiny plastic "spikes" that hold the rail down and keep it in gauge.
I'll bet you're starting to see why ACY's suggestion that you simply cut the rails isn't such brute force after all!
-- D
Instead of cutting the rails, why not snip or un-solder the red wires underneath the crossover? I think these are there to transfer current from one side to the other. If not, what is their purpose? Thanks.
if i am not mistaken you have to do this in addition to cutting the rails on a bachmann crossover. perhaps others could further elaborate?
reg-
Yes. Both must be done. The red wires must
be cut or removed and the continuity of the
rails must be interrupted.
-- D
Quote from: ACY on May 25, 2011, 03:28:35 PM
Bachmann crossovers were not made for DC use though, they were made for DCC only.
Are your sure about this? what would make them dcc only?
NM
they are not "dcc only" but they are not gapped for block control either. under traditional dc wiring, there should be a gap in one or both rails between the two switches in the crossover, to isolate the two parallel tracks from each other. if this is not done, you can't run seperate trains on seperate tracks with dc.
Quote from: NarrowMinded on May 25, 2011, 09:40:20 PM
Are your sure about this? what would make them dcc only?
Without modification you cannot run two trains on DC using the crossover, they were manufactured for use with a DCC layout.
I guess I'm missing something, I understand you need to modify them to wire "blocks" for multible DC traims but I don't understand why you say they were made for dcc, couldn't you use them unmodufied if your only running one train? Just like any track plan that includes turnouts?
I'm curious because my LHS does not carry them and I was going to order one or two for my kids track.
i don't see why you couldn't run them on dc, if you weren't using block control. if they'll work on dcc they will work on dc.
Dear All,
If you want to modify (cut) the crossover for block DC use (inside and outside loops on 2 separate, or isolated, circuits),
here are instructions from David Harrison's excellent website:
http://web.mac.com/msibnsf/iWeb/Acela%20Express,%20The%20Need%20For%20Speed/Modeling%20Techniques.html
(Scroll to bottom)
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Thanks for all the responses to my original inquiry. The last reply from Joe Satnik with a link to another website covers the situation as well as any. http://web.mac.com/msibnsf/iWeb/Acela%20Express,%20The%20Need%20For%20Speed/Modeling%20Techniques.html
Just one point needs clarification. I am not sure which wire should be disconnected. Is it one of each pair or all four?
Dear regnew,
More discussion:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,8052.0.html
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Dear Joe,
i have followed very carefully the instructions on modification of Bachmann crossovers for use on a DC application using two power supplies on two connected ovals which were given on David Harrisons's website you recommended. However, I am still getting continuity using an ohm meter between the matching rails of each oval. The problem seems to be outside each frog for each pair of corresponding rails. Also, there is still continuity on each pair of rails in the crossover on each side of the cuts in the rails. I am at a loss as how to proceed. I have too much invested in the crossovers to scrap them and use #5 turnouts instead. Any thoughts or suggestions will be very much appreciated \.
Thanks,
John
regnew,
on Joe's last link I don't think you scrolled down far enough. it also has step by step instructions and also shows a reply from David H.referring not to cut any wires only the copper strips. hope that helps.
I read the instructions from David Harrison very carefully and did not cut any wires but severed each of the four copper strips to disconnect the parallel rail as shown in the diagram. At least I think I made the cut right place on each strip. Could you further clarify which end of each strip should be severed.
Thanks,
regnew
regnew,
Wish I could help more. If this helps you may be able to e-mail hunter2115 and get what you need in detail as it sounds like he accomplished his with success. Click on his profile and send him an e-mail.
Jerry
Sorry to be a pest, but how do I find the email address for hunter2115?
Thanks,
regnew
Jerry,
Never mind. I found it. Thanks
regnew
This is exactly why Bachmann should include CLEAR instructions in the box on how to modify the #6 crossovers for use with DC layouts. Or better yet, redo them with jumpers that can be added or removed depending on what type of layout they will be used in, DCC or DC.
David Harrison's web page can be helpful, but what modifications to do can be hard to make out in some of the pictures. And referring people to a third parties web page for this information isn't exactly what I'd call good customer service on Bachmann's part.
Len
Quote from: ACY on May 25, 2011, 10:30:06 PM
Quote from: NarrowMinded on May 25, 2011, 09:40:20 PM
Are your sure about this? what would make them dcc only?
Without modification you cannot run two trains on DC using the crossover, they were manufactured for use with a DCC layout.
To rephrase ACY's reply, they will work right out of the box with multi train DCC operation or single train dc operation but will require modification for multi train dc operation.
I suspect most people wanting to use crossovers with dc are planning a layout with an inner and an outer oval, each controlled by its own power pack, but still have the possibility of running trains from one oval to the other. Not a bad idea if the locomotives are truly analogue but it may damage decoders if the locomotives are equipped with decoders and being run on dc. The problem is that under certain circumstances you can end up with double the operating voltage across one of the gaps. This voltage can easily exceed the maximum voltage limit of a decoder.
Jim
Bachmann makes two versions of this crossover one dcc and the other manually switched without a decoder. I don't know for sure but I bet it would be easier to modify Part #44575 or 44576 than the 44138 and 44137. If so before you buy one decide whether dcc is for you or not. My thinking is the one's without decoders would be the same as two #6 turnout's.
Just thinking, Jerry
Jerry,
I have both a 44575 and 44576 crossover without decoders for use on a DC only setup. I have experimented by severing both ends of each strip on one of the crossovers. That has solved the problem of continuity across corresponding parallel tracks. However, now I have to try to figure out which gap to bridge to allow an engine to successfully make the transition from one oval to the other. Never a dull moment. Any thoughts?
regnew
It seems like using these crossovers are more trouble then just using two single turnouts with insulating rail joiners to create a cross over
NM
Great hind sight. The crossovers looked like a clear deal. Now that I have them I am trying to make them work.
Dear Regnew,
You "bridge the gap" with external DC Block wiring switches, such as Atlas Selector #215.
It chooses between "Cab A" (power pack A) and "Cab B" (power pack B), to four different sections (blocks) of your layout.
Each additional Selector allows 4 more blocks the choice between Cab A and Cab B.
Normal running, with Cab A to the inner loop and Cab B to the outer loop, the inside of the crossover would be "Selected" to Cab A,
the outside of the crossover "Selected" to Cab B.
When you want to cross over, the blocks on both sides of the crossover must be both Cab A, or both Cab B, not a mix of the two.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik.
Quote from: regnew on June 15, 2011, 09:53:50 AM
Great hind sight. The crossovers looked like a clear deal. Now that I have them I am trying to make them work.
In foresight I saw that the crossovers would be problematic, without having looked at one. That is why I made the statement I did, about them being made primarily for DCC use or for non-block/non-cab control DC use.
Hallelujah! Success at last. After some serious clipping and reconnecting of those pesky copper strips I finally came up with the right combination that allows for separate power supplies on each of the two ovals and successful crossover from one to the other. Many thanks to all the good folks who offered advise and encouragement, especially to Joe Stanik for putting me on to David Harrison's web site that described the process. And thanks Joe for your latest suggestion to use Atlas Selector switches. I had planned to purchase individual toggle switches and make up my own panel, but on Tuesday, while looking for toggle switches at a local hobby shop I saw the Atlas switches and bought both a #215 Selector switch and a #220 Controller for my turn around loop. Why reinvent the wheel when these are already made for the job. I had enough trouble modifying the crossovers I don't need to go through more hassle with wiring my own switches. I must admit, however, that I did learn a lot in my efforts and have really been encouraged by all the helpful folks in the forum. Remember, we can do anything if we stick to it, the impossible just takes a little longer.
I will probably be back with more questions and problems in the future.
Thanks again,
regnew
regnew
i like the atlas controllers and selectors. they are an easy way to do the wiring.
here's a hint: if you'd like full individual control of each loop, consider divicing them into 3 sections each. for this you don't need to gap both rails, one will do as long as all gaps on both loops are on the same rail. the reversing loop track, of course, should be gapped on both rails at each end. having this many "blocks" wired into the selectors allows you to run both your trains on either track at the same time, and control each one seperately.
all of this is easy to do with selectors.
Dear regnew
Glad I could help.
Cab wiring is well detailed in the Atlas #12 book, "The Complete Atlas Wiring Book".
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
J o e S a t n i k
Thanks for the advice about Atlas #12 book "The complete Atlas Wiring Book". Right now I am using an Atlas book that I purchased back in the early 70's when I was building a layout for my 7 year old son. It has layout designs as well as wiring instructions. Some things never change. Now I'm 74 and back into layouts.