Does both engines have to be the same such as 2 sd40's. 2 gp40's in order for them to pull the same, without one working more than the other?
no but they do have to be closely matched speedwise. luckily, with most dcc systems this is easy to do through programming.
HI Jeff
Thanks for answering.... I have the bachmann EZ Comand controller and cannot adjust engine speed, all I can do is program the second engine to the first engine's address, So would this make the speed the same for the 2 engines??
No, you need to borrow an DCC system with the capabilities of changing CVs besides, direction and address.
Freight-
No, unless you are very lucky. That is to say, it would be pure coincidence if two locos just happened to run at the same speed at a given throttle setting. This is one of the problems with EZ DCC. However, it's not critical that both locos move at exactly the same speed. It will be okay if there is just a little difference. However, you don't want a situation where one loco is spinning its wheels or is getting sort of dragged along. If the locos run at very discrepant speeds try to find a friend with programmable DCC who can help you with your locos.
-- D
HI ACY
So if the engines are the same like 2 gp40's by bachmann or other brands that would be the best way to use this controller, They show how to program the 2 engines to run the same way on one address, but don't say weather they run the same... Just don't want to burn one up.....
HI Doneldon
What would be a good programmable Dcc system? I'm going to try 2 gp40's with the controller I got and see how they run Then go from there.
Two loco's can be identical, but they will not always run at the same speed or close to the same speed. So unless they run at the same speed, I would buy a Dyanmis or a competitor's equivalent system.
there are a number of good entry level dcc systems which have full programming capability. digitrax zephyr and nce powercab are two that come to mind.
Ok Everybody
THANKS ALOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Freight Train
Freight-
Everyone has an opinion about the best DCC system. The problem is, what's just what person A needs may be exactly what person B doesn't.
I suggest that you do some shopping on line, that is, go to various manufacturers' websites and see what features and power they offer for what price. If you are lucky and there's a model railroad club near you, ask different people what system they run and why, and see if they'll let you take it for a spin. That's really the best way I know of to pick a DCC system. On the other hand, perhaps you have been pleased with your Bachmann trains and want to stay with that brand. Well, you could do a whole lot worse than Bachmann's Dynamis. Unlike the EZ DCC it includes the full range of programming and it can run more trains before gets overloaded. Ah. That's another thing to think about.
How many trains do you expect to run at a time? Or, more precisely, how many locomotives do you plan to run at a time? Figure (very roughly) about .5 amp for a loco with a headlight or closer to one amp for locos with sound. That builds in a big cushion, but it's a place to start planning. Also, remember that locomotives made in the last 20 years or so have can motors which use much, much less current that even the better open-frame motors which were common before that time. I'm not telling you to never buy an older loco, just be aware that it will take more than its fair share of electricity and you might want to remotor it someday.
Take some time making your decision. You can run trains with a power pack or EZ DCC for now, while you investigate DCC systems. You will be spending a big enough chunk of change that you need to be sure that you've investigated DCC thoroughly and found the system which best fits your needs and wants at a price you can afford. But don't make price the main consideration because it could be that a few more dollars spent on your DCC system today, perhaps instead of some new cars, engines or scenery, will pay off handsomely in the future as a system which does what you want it to do, and which can grow as you grow with the hobby.
I envy you. You're at the point of discovering model trains and all of the things they do. I'm an old f**t so there's less discovery for me. Good luck with your investigation and model trains.
-- D
don
this hobby, and it's sister hobbies of railfanning and railroad history, are endelessly fascinating. there is no reason you can't try another facet and get the thrill of discovery all over again. been doing that for 40 years, and i still am digging up things i never knew existed.
Hmm thats funny I run 2 to 3 bachmann GP40's off my EZ commander and they seem to be matched pretty close .Just addressed them the same . the FT unit that came with the set ,and I bought a B unit off the internet and run them together consist and they run evenly . maybe I'm missing something but my Bachmann DCC locomotives being the same engines are geared and I guess you would say programmed the same and run great together .....
Quote from: mf5117 on June 10, 2011, 06:51:07 AM
Hmm thats funny I run 2 to 3 bachmann GP40's off my EZ commander and they seem to be matched pretty close .Just addressed them the same . the FT unit that came with the set ,and I bought a B unit off the internet and run them together consist and they run evenly . maybe I'm missing something but my Bachmann DCC locomotives being the same engines are geared and I guess you would say programmed the same and run great together .....
That has been my experience too I run 2 GP40 Consists on Occasion
Quote from: mf5117 on June 10, 2011, 06:51:07 AM
maybe I'm missing something but my Bachmann DCC locomotives being the same engines are geared and I guess you would say programmed the same and run great together .....
You are missing something, just because your Bachmann GP40s are speed matched does not mean 2 other Bachmann GP40's will be matched. This is similar to how one person's loco may run on a certain radius, but another identical loco may require a larger radius.
what are you saying ACY I have 7 GP40's Bachmanns and running them shows that they are matched pretty well . I run them on 18" and 22" rad and haven't seen any problems .maybe if it was an athearn or a bachmann then maybe a problem .I also have a couple of Bachmann GP30's BN that I consist and they run well aswell ...
Did I start this argument !!!!!!!!! HA HA!!!!!!!!
Quote from: mf5117 on June 10, 2011, 06:51:07 AM
Hmm thats funny I run 2 to 3 bachmann GP40's off my EZ commander and they seem to be matched pretty close .Just addressed them the same . the FT unit that came with the set ,and I bought a B unit off the internet and run them together consist and they run evenly . maybe I'm missing something but my Bachmann DCC locomotives being the same engines are geared and I guess you would say programmed the same and run great together .....
just because you have had this experience thus far doesn't mean it will always be true.
locomotives can vary in how they run due to a variety of reasons which i won't go into here. suffice it to say that the only way to guarantee that all your locomotives will run together is to program them to do just that.
the situation you describe about similar engines running at similar speeds is often true, but often it is not. some brands have better quality control than others. until dcc there really was no way to guarantee that everything would work together, and often you had locomotive consists that fought each other. nothing has changed except the ability to compensate for that through speed adjustments.
want to see how closely matched your locomotives actually are? address them the same, then run them about a foot or so apart. i think you'll be surprised by what you find.
So true Jeff I have a Sante Fe and a Union Pacific and they are slightly different but when I hook them together they appear to act as one. I just put the slightly faster one in front. Jeff's idea of addressing the same and running together is a great way to figure which one is faster to allow the faster one to be connected in front if you don't have the ability to reset the speeds.
jeffery I'll try that what you recommend ,running them a foot apart but I have never had any push any other off the rails or wreck any . maybe I just don't have enough experience , so hmmm I'll just enjoy my Bachmann Locomotives in HO and sit back and listen ... no worries happy railroading
regards mark f
Quote from: mf5117 on June 10, 2011, 06:53:00 PM
but I have never had any push any other off the rails or wreck any . maybe I just don't have enough experience
Although those things haven't happened, that doesn't mean your locos are matched, if they are not and you continue running them together then you can damage the motors and other components of the locos, it is easiest to see when you separate them and run them around the layout a few times and see how far apart they are or how close together they are.
running the faster one in front is what we did for many years before dcc came along. if they are reasonably close in speed, the risk of damage to one or the other is minimal. remember, as recently as 10-15 years ago, dcc was rare and expensive. you had to run two locomotives together on dc, with no decoder settings to make adjustments in speed. what you got out of the box is what you lived with unless you wanted to take dratsic measures like remotoring or regearing them. about the worst thing that i have seen happen was the faster locomotive, if the speed difference was enough to cause its wheels to slip when couplers to the ohter locomotive, would get its wheels polished and wouldn't pull as much. that, and athearn locomotive which picked up power through the chassis needed to be turned so that all frames were the same polarity. otherwise, you'd have a dead short through the couplers if you were using kadee's metal couplers. (ez mate and other plastic couplers weren't available then)
oh the joys of the good old days.....
Back when I ran short trains on dc, I used to test and rate matches between locomotives. One section of my layout was a flat oval on a 4' x 8' table, about 20 feet of track. A class 0 (perfect match) was when the locomotives stayed the same distance apart. A class 1 (excellent match) was when the locomotives increased their separation by one foot or less per time around the track. This was 1/20 or 5% difference in speed. A class 2 (good match), a class 3 (usable match) and a class 4 (risky match) was when the separation increased by 2, 3 or 4 feet lap respectively. Later, when we went metric, this system still worked using steps of 30 cm. In those days, I had only a couple of dozen locomotives so it was possible to do the numbers for all possible pairs. The only perfect matches were some Atlas/Kato RS-3's and Bachmann Plus Consolidations. The Consolidations not only matched one another perfectly, they also perfectly matched the RS-3's. Athearn locomotives matched other Athern locomotives to a class 2 match or better except one remotored relic from the 50's that did not match anything. Roco's matched Roco's, even Tyco train set locomotives matched other Tyco train set locomotives at least class 3 or better. But mostly interbrand matching was quite poor and if they did match at one speed they did not match at others.
After switching to DCC , speed matching became much easier.
Jim
I must confess and become humble . On a 22" rad oval approx 24 ft of track ,my FT A-B unit running at start 1 ft apart running 5 laps around the oval at 30% throttle on the EZ commander. when I stopped them they were 4 5/8 " closer then at start . The GP40's I took ! as lead and ran 3 of them and the distances varied from 1 1/2 " to almost 3 " so I guess my Loco's aren't perfect like I thought . I guess I could really do some disecting and measure the gears and drives and really do some math . and wonder If they were put together early monday or late on a friday . So again I bite my tongue .
best regards mark f
Only 4-5/8" difference in 120 feet? That is a great match. Microscopic differences in the fit of the parts, slight differences in wear and even the state of lubrication can make things worse than that.
Jim
"Only 4-5/8" difference in 120 feet? That is a great match. "
I guess it is. It's about .34%. Imagine if you had carried a 99.66 average in school. I know that these percentages don't mean the same thing, I just picked the school average as a way to show how insignificant the error is. With only 128 speed steps plus variations in track, wire, motors, lights (or not), and other more subtle factors, I seriously doubt that one could program such compatibility between two locomotives.
-- D
remember, ivory soap is only 99.44% pure...lol.
i would say those are close enough to not worry about speed adjustments. i would be happy if i had programmed two locomotives to run like that. when they are that close you really don't need to worry about putting the faster locomotive in front.