I am wiring my HO layout. Have all track feeder leads coming from a power distribution block. I tested a set of track feeders connected to a DC transformer and got the expected DC voltage as I moved the throttle. Next I wired my EZ Command controller to the PDB and tried to get a reading at a track feeder ends and got no reading. Help... What kind of DC voltage can I expect from the EZ controller from start to full speed on the EZ Command Command throttle??? Next I connected my multimeter directly to the EZ controller track power leads and still no reading. Is my controller dead or am I doing something wrong
Lack of knowledge.
You do not get DC voltage out of a DCC controller. You get AC voltage. Many AC voltmeters will show around 12 VAC to 14 VAC but depends on the type of meter because of the frequency of the DCC voltage.
Ricg
Get some DCC education. Look at the below link and store the link in Favorites. Sounds like you will need it.
Take your time. Stepping from Analog, DC, to Digital, DCC is a BIG step. Bigger than a lot of people realize.
Those of you who have never been to the site, store the link in Favorites. Do a lot of reading. With DCC, don't assume.
Rich
It is confusing to get no reading when voltage is there, press button 10 turn the throttle to full, your meter will now read the max output voltage of around 25vac +/-
Nm-Jeff
Ps i dont think dcc is such a big step. I look at it as a step in the right direction.
hi richg, where is the link below?
A properly connected DCC system will always have an AC voltage on the track.
With a system like the EZ Command, select the number for a loco with no decoder and turn up the throttle for that loco and you will see a DC voltage that depends on the throttle setting. It will reverse polarity when you reverse the throttle for the DC loco. That DC voltage will vary from 0 to max DC at full speed.
My first system was an MRC 2000 that had five throttles. Throttle 1 could operate a DC or DCC loco.
I believe there are two other brands that can do this.
Below is an explanation by Jim Banner. As usual, save the link and do a bunch of reading.
http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/DCC-waveforms/DCC_waveforms.html
Rich
Quote from: willis on July 14, 2011, 06:55:16 PM
hi richg, where is the link below?
http://www.digitrax.com/appnote_trvolt.php
I was in a hurry to go out on my mountain bike. Sorry.
Rich
A step in the right direction, yes, but still confusing. That 25 volts ac that you might measure has little relationship with the voltages that are really there. Unless your meter is capable of reading true rms voltages, it will read correctly only if the ac voltage is a sine wave with no net dc. Address 10 is used to turn on zero stretching so that analogue locomotives will see a net dc voltage and operate on it. Even with zero stretching turned off, the rectangular DCC waves are still far from pure sine waves. The harmonic frequencies in the DCC waveform may have a small effect of the indicated voltage, depending on the frequency response of the meter, but the major error is the rectangular form of the fundamental.
Jim
I have posted this fellow's site before. I suspect some are not reading all his stuff.
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/dcc_waveforms.htm
Rich
I and some others have the cheap meters from Harbor Freight that all read quite close to each other. I have a digital scope that shows the meters are close.
Some older analog meters that have the mechanical meter movement can differ quite a lot. I have a couple older analog types that I do not use anymore.
I have taken time to do the comparisons. I learned some years ago not to trust in one meter and to pay attention to the battery in the meter.
Rich
motrain-
Don't let the peculiarities of AC/DC/DCC screw you up. DCC puts full power AC on the track but the decoders only send pulses of DC (one-half of the AC wave form) to your locos because they have DC motors. There is a fundamental difference between DC and DCC. With (conventional) DC, you control motor speed and direction by varying the current level and polarity in the track. With DCC, on the other hand, you control motor speed and direction by telling the DCC decoder what concentration of one-half of the AC power pulses (with all polarities the same among those pulses) to send to the motor. The pulses are so fast that they effectively blend together so your locomotive moves smoothly down the track. To speed up under DC you increase track power; to speed up with DCC you tell the decoder to feed a little more power to the motor. Some folks call DC "operating/running the track" and DCC "operating the locomotive." Others describe DC as controlling how much water runs out of a hose by varying how far the supply valve is open and DCC as controlling how much water runs out by turning full blast pulses of water on and off. Although those analogies are a little simplistic, they do a pretty good job of describing the main difference between DC and DCC.
-- D
i like that water comparison. and i love my new dcc shower head. it's very relaxing.
Rich-
Nice!
D
Richg,
neither of my fluke Meters read voltage from my ez-command unless I press button ten and turn the voltage up, Even when a decoder equiped train will run on them.
Jim, Thank you for the explaination as to why.
NM-Jeff
Richg, I just checked out that site, Yikes... I will re-bury my head in the sand now and go back to running trains.
I changed from analogue DC to Digital DCC and found it to be simplicity itself. What is this BIG step?
No wonder people are put off from DCC with all this scary talk.
Take a look at Bachmann's E-Z Command videos on YouTube to see how simple it can be.
Here's a link to the first one in the series. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAin_nEMHlY&
Polis,
I agree, I use my computer and it's simple and I don't need to know how all the 1's and 0's turn into A,B,C, my brother inlaw is the guy that has to constantly be tweaking his to make it a Nano second faster.
I am more into scenery and weathering, if I can learn a little to make my loco's run nicely in circles I;m happy... everyone takes something differant from this hobby thats why it's so great.
NM-Jeff
i guess you could call a calculator a computer too, but if you want to unlock dcc's full potential or even a small part of it you are going to need something more functional than that. and that means a learning curve. and a rather steep one at that.
dcc has been touted as a simple alternative to block control. then you find out you still have to gap and wire reversing loops. and that if you don't want a short to shut down your entire railroad you need to gap your track and install blocks. excuse me...."power districts".... and then you find out that unless you want all your locomotives to run at the same time you have to program them to respond to different addresses. and to run two together you have to learn how to program a consist.......i could go on but you get the point.
don't get me wrong, i run dcc and i wouldn't go back to dc except in an emergency. but i do believe that all the hype about dcc being simpler than dc is just that....hype. nothing is simpler when things go wrong.
don't be afraid of dcc, but don't go in blind either. learning about the pitfalls and how to avoid them is the prudent thing to do.
Jward,
I understand what you are saying completely, I think the "simpler" part is that I can set up a double loop with connecting turnouts and have my kids running two trains in about 20 minutes. with only two wires to connect. then take it down and and put it in a box for next week...
I have learned what I need to get running for now and more little bits like in this thread, for now I can program some affects and one of the best parts of dcc to me has nothing to do with running trains at all, I put cheap decoders in my buildings to turn lights on and off, I use the motor leads to run smoke modules so the smoke stacks smoke as much or little as I want. I wire those cheap recordable greeting cards to left over functions for sounds, all of this is much easier with only connecting two wires and not having to wire a bunch of switches.
Right now I have a Ez command torn apart and I am soldering leads to the board for my Christmas layout, switches around the track hooked in parallel with these will trigger the sound effects and apply braking and release braking at crossings.
I can do all this with my limited DCC knowledge, I guess these are the reasons I think its simpler, I don't have a clue how I could do all this without Dcc.
NM-Jeff
Bachmann has done a great job of making DCC simple. Plug in a few wires, change an address or two, and away you go. Once you have your locomotives running on different addresses, you just punch one button for the locomotive you want to run and you are in control. If you want to run more locomotives at one time, add a booster. Very simple to install and works like a charm. I often recommend E-Z DCC to people who want that multiple train control without all the bother of a full blown DCC system.
The only problem with simplicity is that it limits versatility. The other side of that coin is that systems that can do it all require the user to learn a great deal in order to make them do it all. What are some of these other things? Let's take for example a diesel headlight. All basic systems that I am aware of turn on the headlight if function 0 is on and the locomotive is moving forward. If the direction is reversed, the headlight goes off and the rear light comes on. This is great for a switcher, both for appearance and for letting the operator know which way the locomotive is set to move. But it is not so great for road locomotives, particularly if they are operated in back-to-back pairs. In that operation, the trailing unit's headlight is used when the pair backs up. The rear lights are not used at all. Many decoders will allow you to program them so that more than one function can affect a light's operation. One of my favorites is to program the rear lights so that the locomotive must be in reverse AND function 0 must be on AND function 4 must be on in order to light the rear lights. With function 4 on, the locomotive behaves normally when run as a single locomotive. With function 4 off, the rear light never comes on when running in a back-to-back consist. Similarly, road locomotives in real life must dim their headlights when standing in a station or on a siding so that they do not blind approaching trains. This is called Rule 17. With a bit more jiggery-pokery, headlights can be programmed to meet Rule 17. To use these advanced features requires 3 things - a DCC system that will let you program CV's, a decoder that can perform the functions you want, and the knowledge of how and what to program. Is it worth the extra trouble and expense? Only you can decide.
A completely different example of what more advanced systems can do involves relatively larger layouts that are at their best when run by a whole crew of operators. Even basic systems may allow you to use more than one throttle because it is fun to run trains with a buddy. But generally it takes a more advanced systems to deal with a dozen or more operators, each with his own throttle and each running his own train. For large clubs, there are even systems that allow more than 100 operators to runs trains simultaneously. But does a modeler with a 4 x 8 layout need that kind of capability? More importantly, does a beginner need that kind of expense at a time when a host of other model railroad items are eating up his budget? And does he want to be spending a lot of time learning all the ins and outs of DCC at a time when so many other model railroad activities are gobbling up his hobby time?
Bottom line, in my opinion, is that a simple to use system like E-Z Command is a great place to start. If you and your layout outgrow it, hopefully that will happen at a time when you have a little more money and a lot more time to invest in buying and learning all the ins and outs of DCC.
Jim
don,
you hit the nail on the head. that lack of an upgrade path from ez command to dynamis is the main thing i have against that system. otherwise i think it would be a good value.
oh, and....
not to nitpick, ez-dcc is a system by cvp i believe. ez command is bachmann's system. they are not the same.
Quote from: jward on July 16, 2011, 08:22:49 PM
don,
you hit the nail on the head. that lack of an upgrade path from ez command to dynamis is the main thing i have against that system. otherwise i think it would be a good value.
oh, and....
not to nitpick, ez-dcc is a system by cvp i believe. ez command is bachmann's system. they are not the same.
From what I have heard some people say that the handheld doesn't always communicate with the base b/c of Infrared. I'm trying to get a DT-400 series radio frequency remote to go with my Zypher.
This has been mentioned before in other threads but i'll bring it up again, the basic Ez-Command system can be found for such low prices out growing it isn't that much of a hit to the pocket. I bought mine from eBay 69.00 with free shipping.
NM-Jeff
Narrow-
Yes, the Bachmann DCC system is inexpensive at just $69. But the OP is nine years old. I don't know what his allowance is -- mine was a dime a week at that age -- but $69 might represent his allowance for a whole year if he only gets say, $1.30 a week. That's 13 times what I got and inflation hasn't been 1300% since I was nine. We have to keep in mind that some of our posters don't have big bucks. Heck, my 14-year-old grandson was here this evening begging for some kind of a job so he could earn $10 for a video game. And he put himself on record as willing to go on only one vacation next summer because he wants to get a job and he won't get one if he's always gone.
-- D
The OP already has a DCC controller.
When all else fails, read the original post. Anybody know what a PDB is? Motrainguy mentions wiring his EZ Command controller to the PDB.
Jim
My guess is the PDB would be the Power Distribution Board. The OP seems to have left the room like Elvis.
Try turning the light on. If that doesn't work make sure that everything is plugged in. If not,make sure the locomotive is on the track.
narrow, poliss and Jim-
OP has a DCC controller which he wants to feed through his power distribution block (PDB) to his tracks. It sounds like everything is okay from his PDB to his rails as the setup worked when he tested it with DC. His problem is that his DCC doesn't make it to the rails. If his DC did, the problem can't be downstream from the PDB which puts it in either the wires from his controller or in the controller itself.
My point about affordability applies even if OP already has the EZ Command. It still might represent a year's allowance and be a significant asset which he can't just dispose of. He won't get much for it on ebay or in trade so he still has a significant financial issue with his EZ Command ownership. If he didn't already have the DCC Command he'd be halfway to another basis system.
-- D
Don,
You would be surprised at what people will pay on ebay. I have sold stuff that I normally would not pay that much for new much less used. I have an EZ command only because it came with the digital commander set. I bought the set to help me get my layout started. The two engines and the rolling stock is very good quality. I also like it came with nickel silver track. My layout has since grown tremendously and I still use all of it to help tweek everything. My plan is to move to dynamis or nce once I am ready. then I will sell the EZ Command. Whatever I get will be great as I only paid 160.00 for the set and I believe the engines, rolling stock and track are worth that.
Jerry
Quote
I am wiring my HO layout. Have all track feeder leads coming from a power distribution block. I tested a set of track feeders connected to a DC transformer and got the expected DC voltage as I moved the throttle. Next I wired my EZ Command controller to the PDB and tried to get a reading at a track feeder ends and got no reading. Help... What kind of DC voltage can I expect from the EZ controller from start to full speed on the EZ Command Command throttle??? Next I connected my multimeter directly to the EZ controller track power leads and still no reading. Is my controller dead or am I doing something wrong
these statement are why I told him to press 10 and throttle up, my High dollar flukes read zero unless I do as stated. this is where Jim's comments here and on other threads Help, one he explained why my meter reads zero, on other threads he often mentions the merits of a simple test light which lite up when my fancy fluke's read Zero.
The original poster may have never placed a locomotive on the track with a meter reading Zero.
NM-Jeff
If the OP wants to read DCC current then he should get a RRampMeter. He won't get any DC reading with an ordinary multimeter set on DC voltage because there isn't any DC voltage to measure.