Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: Mark Oles on September 16, 2011, 09:36:20 AM



Title: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Mark Oles on September 16, 2011, 09:36:20 AM
Dear Bachmann,
Have the new, updgraded Annies been released?  When do you expect them to be available?


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: the Bach-man on September 16, 2011, 11:43:43 PM
Dear Mark,
As far as i know, all new items should arrive by November.
I'll see what I can find out.
Have fun!
the Bach-man


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Mark Oles on September 19, 2011, 08:20:05 AM
Thanks!  The upgrades announced should make this a bargain for large scale steam locomotives. 


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: scottychaos on September 23, 2011, 01:06:26 PM
What are the upgrades?



Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Bucksco on September 24, 2011, 10:33:18 AM
Metal drive gears and a new die-cast lead truck.


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Old John on September 24, 2011, 12:22:10 PM
Yardmaster,

Will the Parts Department be carrying the new metal gear and driver axle assembly as an available part in the near future?


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Bucksco on September 24, 2011, 12:52:55 PM
Parts will most likely appear during future production runs.


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Ted Yarbrough on September 24, 2011, 01:07:31 PM
Yardmaster,
 Any ideas on why no photo available of the Bumble-Bee? New details or road number maybe? Catalog list old number but yet states no photo available. I found that kind of odd. Sure would love to see a blackw/ silver smokebox Annie with the Flying Grande herald! How about green D&RGW passenge cars in the Big Hauler line?
Happy Rails To You,
Ted


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Bucksco on September 24, 2011, 02:37:16 PM
Photos will appear when a production sample is available.


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: casey on October 06, 2011, 03:39:16 PM
Ola,
      What is this ? yet another rendition of the 4-6-0? I think this must be version no5 is it not? each so far being better than the one before.
I think I have one of each LOL even the 1st one the R/C version of mine is still in operation with the original drive mech ( a different R/C package though) bring it on!
Casey.


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Mark Oles on November 15, 2011, 10:51:20 AM
Any update on these engines?


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Sleeping Bear on November 15, 2011, 12:10:17 PM
    Casey... Loco Bill is calling this new variation Gen. 6,   The differences are metal drive gears and a new die-cast lead truck..per Yardmaster......later all.....S.B.


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 15, 2011, 01:58:04 PM
We definitely need to call it version 6, aside from the new front truck, I will publish the external identifying features as soon as we get the production models in out hands and can check them out. 


I can't wait to see how they run and look!   

Cheers, Bill


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Mark Oles on November 15, 2011, 04:39:47 PM
I figured it would be a different version designation since the gears are metal and the lead truck is mounted differently. 

I think it's going to be tricky to identify these without turning them over. 

This locomotive has the appearances of being one of the best sleeper deals in large scale.



Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: scottychaos on November 15, 2011, 11:40:35 PM
We definitely need to call it version 6, aside from the new front truck, I will publish the external identifying features as soon as we get the production models in out hands and can check them out. 


I can't wait to see how they run and look!   

Cheers, Bill

Generation 7 actually:

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/big_hauler_tips.html

Generation 1 - first Big Hauler 4-6-0, battery powered.

Generation 2 - "The early track powered version (2nd generation) uses the same gearing as the first generation but it has a larger motor." (quotes from George Schreyer site)

Generation 3 - "The 3rd generation version uses a brass worm on the motor and plastic reduction gears. "

Generation 4 - "This one uses a worm on the motor and a single gear on the axle."

Generation 5 - "This version appeared sometime during 2000. This one has an intermediate reduction gear and a more substantial metal gearbox assembly. The axle gear is narrower and offset from the center. The bump in the lower cover is also offset from the center." This version still has plastic side rods and plastic valve gear.

Generation 6 - the "annie" - 10th anniversary version. has metal siderods and valve gear, new improved "steel" cab" and an upgraded 7-pole motor, (different motor than Gen 5)

Generation 7 - The newest version, the topic of this thread.

Some people have tried to imply that both the "Gen 5" and the "Annie" should be considered the same..both should be called "Gen 5"..but with so many differences between the Gen 5 and the Annie, (Annie has metal rods, improved details, and a different motor) I don't see any way anyone can logically argue that the annie should also be "Gen 5"..it is SO different from Gen 5, that clearly the Annie is worthy of being Gen 6, and most people consider it Gen 6, and have for 10 years.

Scot


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 16, 2011, 12:47:35 AM

Scotty,
George was incorrect about the motor. the motors are the same in the Annie and Version 5 big hauler.  he later acknowledged it, but I can't remember where.

It is the chassis that matters and since the Version 5 chassis was put in Big Haulers and Annie they are long considered Version 5.  This was all put to bed back in 2001, after several were torn down and found to be identical.

Here is the identification guide:

Big Hauler 4-6-0 Chassis Version Identification  by Bill Canelos                                
Version 1  1988-1990  Battery Powered R/C Units                              
Version 2  1990-1994  Smooth Bottom Cover  You can turn drivers by hand and motor will turn                              
Version 3  1994-1998  Smooth Bottom Cover You cannot turn the drivers by hand                              
Version 4  1998-1999  Large wide hump dead center between the rear drivers on bottom cover                              
Version 5  2000-Pres  3/8th inch wide hump offset between the rear drivers and a plastic lubrication plug the size of a dime to the rear of the hump..                              
Version 6  2011-           New Chassis for Annie only, has metal gears and new front truck other features yet to be determined.                              
Note that the dates overlap and as of Nov 1, 2008 have not been fixed more precisely, but I believe all new sets introduced in 1999 with the VHS instructions were version 5                              
The following sets released in late 1999 were Version 5 Chassis 90031, 90032, 90033, 90034, 90035 and 90037.                              

Hope this clarifies things as far as actual chassis identification goes.

Regards

Bill


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Mark Oles on November 16, 2011, 11:38:10 AM
Bill,

I am hopeful that the upgrades will drastically improve the big hauler.  Seems like they should.  It is the first time in recent memory that I strongly considered this engine for real use on my railroad.  Previously, I considered this an 'entry level' locomotive not intended for real heavy use.  The addition of the metal gears and the improved tracking (hopefully) on the pilot truck take this locomotive from the toy range to the model range in my mind.  Now, if someone could convince them to offer a Strasburg lettered engine....


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: tac on November 16, 2011, 01:50:58 PM
My Annie, in WP livery, has been a faithful and reliable performer since being taken out of the box, almost eleven years ago.

Never had ANY work done on it, but taken care of before, during and after every run - some of which have lasted 8 hours nonstop at shows, with five or six suitable passenger behind it.

The BEST value of ANY model I've ever had in over sixty years of playing trains - bar none.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 16, 2011, 07:50:11 PM
Mark, 

I have to agree with Tac My Annies have performed reliably as well.  I have never had a problem with the front truck and I do use some grease on the swivel slot, and make sure the wires are not interfering in some way.(but I do fuss over my track leveling and grade transitions).  So far in all these years I have had no trouble with the gears and on my 1905-1935 era layout all I use is 3 Annies and two Connies.  I use the Revolution R/c in all of them.  I'm sure at some point I will have a gear problem, but until then I am saving all the articles and posts on how to replace the gears.  If the new Annie is a great runner I may just pick up one or two and retire my older ones.

When I have helped others having truck problems, we found that bad, twisting or poorly leveled track was the problem 60% of the time,  The other major problem was the wires going to the front truck getting in the way of it swinging properly.   Some added weight to the truck with lead fishing weights.  Others bought Barry's Big trains replacement front trucks.  All of these fixes did the trick, if you knew about them!!

Having said all that a locomotive that is a great runner and forgiving of bad track, is a HUGE plus!!  It is my hope the new Annie will do the trick.

Cheers to all.


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: scottychaos on November 17, 2011, 03:39:33 PM

It is the chassis that matters and since the Version 5 chassis was put in Big Haulers and Annie they are long considered Version 5.  

says who?
why should *only* the chassis matter?  ???
why wouldnt all the upgrades to the Annie be enough to give its own generation? seperate from Gen 5?
It makes no sense at all to call the "non-annie" Gen 5 and the Annie also Gen 5..
thay are SO different its obvious the Annie should be Gen 6, and the new one should be Gen 7.
(and the new one also should clearly *not* be called the "Annie"..the Annie was specifically the 10th anniversary model only..Gen 6 only..the new one should be Gen 7 but not called "Annie"..why add unnecessary confusion?)

From what I have seen, people have been calling the Annie "Generation 6" for 10 years..
It has long been considered Generation 6.

Calling the Annie Gen 5 and lumping it in with the non-annie Gen 5 is a minority opinion..
It has always been refered to, by most, as Gen 6, for clear and obvious reasons.

I can see the logic in referring to "chassis versions"..which yes, have only been 5 versions up to the Annie.
but a locomotive is much more than just its chassis..

Does Bachmann have any ruling on this question? ;)
I would be curious to learn how Bachmann refers to the various versions of the Big Hauler..
that would end the debate once and for all! ;)

Scot



Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 18, 2011, 01:09:09 AM
Scotty,
 We refer to the operating mechanism as the chassis which includes the motor block runnig gear and wheels as the "chassis"  The chassis version is the same in both  the Big Hajuler and the original Annie.  They are exactly identical  so the chassis version is the same even if there are differences in the shell, boiler, valve gear drive rods etc.   Bachmann has never had any interest in chassis identification, other that t o announce improvements

Barry Olsen myself Wade Colyer and several other back  around 1993 started documenting the "chassis differences, faults and problems associated with them so that modelers could avoid a specific chassis, or at least know how to aviod problems. That is how it evolved till today.  In 2000 when the Annie was first introduced itcreated a lot of excitement.  Then several o f the guys discovered that the Big Hauler 4-6-0's sold in the sets introduced in late 1999 had the same exact chassis as the Annie. The Chassis we called the version 5. The version 5 chassis was so successful that folks on this forum wanted to know how to identify Big Hauler 4-6-0 with the version 5 chassis. I copyrighted  the chassis identification data in my post above back in 2002 and it has been in use on this board since then and is freely shared.  RATHER THAN CREATE CONFUSION, it actually allows a modeler to take this information to a swap meet and identify exactly what they are getting INSIDE the 4-6-0 they may want to buy.

There are many variations in the4-6-0 locomotives that changed along the way.  There are wood cabs and metal cabs, 3 window cabs and two window cabs, long pilots and short pilots, older style domes and moden domes , same is true for head lights, there are stack differences, and some are wood burners and some are coal burners.  I have and extensive database of much of this information from a historical standpoint, and could not even begin to develop a "style" version system.   There are so many styles that the Annie would actually be version 10 or higher if differences were taken into consideration.

Bachmann has not been interested in history, only selling the product.   Ast to what a product is called that is up to Bachmann.  It is  the members of the forum who have detailed the differences from the begining.

Having said all that if you ask me what chassis a certain 4-6-0 has in it I can look it up and tell you.

Do you have to use the information, Absolutely not!!!  Do you have to agree with the chassis identification system?  Not if you don't want to!  You can use whatever system you want, or even make up your own system!   But if you go out to buy a Bachmann Big Hauler 4-6-0 and want to be sure you are getting the latest and greatest Version 5 chassis in it which is the same as the one in the Annie;  I guarantee the chassis identification system developed by the group and documented by me will work for you and that is all it is intended to do!!   Our goal in identifying the Version 6 Chassis will allow buyers of used Annies in the future, to look at what they are buying and be sure that the loco thay are looking at is either the new Annie or the old Annie, nothing more or nothing less.

Cheers

Bill


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Mark Oles on November 18, 2011, 12:45:20 PM
Moving forward, I believe all of us are in agreement that the forthcoming Big Hauler is different and therefore 'new'.

Is it the 20th anniversary or the 23rd anniversary of the big hauler?  20th anniversary is the China anniversary, but that would definetly be confusing.

Maybe a name starting with the next letter in the alphabet?  Betty, perhaps?  A Betty Big Hauler has a nice ring to it.  Just sayin'..


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 18, 2011, 02:27:28 PM
Mark,
You make a great point!  Bachmann officially in the catalog still calls it "Anniversary Edition 4-6-0 Steam Locomotive"  same as the original Annie.

So we do need a new nickname to use when we are talking about the new annie.

Why don't you start a new thread aimed as getting suggestions for a new nickname, an see what pops up!

Sounds like a fun thing to do!

Cheers,

 Bill


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: ForThemPanzerz on November 19, 2011, 03:25:20 AM
i think this is a great loco but it needs to  be included in sets so more people can have longer life span of these engines and i would also like to see more paint schemes for it,  maybe a D&RGW one with a pre 1940 herald but a post 1910 herald


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on November 19, 2011, 11:03:29 AM
Mr Shay,

It may be that Bachmann will put the new Chassis in Big Hauler sets and locomotives.   They did it back in 2000 when the Anniversary 4-6-0 was introduced with the version 5 chassis.   They put the same exact version 5 chassis in the Big Hauler 4-6-0's that were in sets released in late 1999.   All new Big Haulers manufactured after that also had the same chassis.

From a manufacturing standpoint it doesn't make a lot of sense to make two different chassis for the same basic loco where only the decorations and side rods are different.  Same would be true for the pilot, why make two pilot trucks for the same loco.

Better yet why not discontinue the Big Hauler 4-6-0 and just make Annies (the new ones)

As for road names and logos,  I would love to see a lot of new ones or at least put new roadnumbers on when reruns are done. 


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Barry BBT on November 19, 2011, 03:06:10 PM
Just wanted to point out a difference I haven't seen mentioned.  The Annie and set locos have one distinctive chassis difference, although mechanically identical, the Annie has a "see-thru" chassis.  In designing the Annie BBT drive, I incorporated the countershaft drive and installed the motor vertically.  If left in the horizontal position it would block some of the see-thru and was getting into the chuff switch.

So the motor is just slightly forward of the forward end of the firebox.

The other significant difference for me was the hinged side rods, this allowed me to design and install a pivoting first axle, which keeps all four flanged drivers in contact with the track (all others with ridgid chassis drive around on three wheels).

Barry - BBT


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: scottychaos on November 19, 2011, 08:38:09 PM
Thans Barry,
thats an interesting detail I dont think anyone has heard of before..

So now it seems the Gen 5 chassis and the annie chassis are not 100% identical afterall..
*now* can we call the Annie Generation 6?!  ;)
and the new one Gen 7..

Scot


Title: Re: New Bachmann 4-6-0 Annie
Post by: Mike M on November 25, 2011, 09:10:22 AM
Last night I had my hands on the new version. All looks the same on the out side of the motor block. The only visable change is the front truck. It looks like Barry's version that he is making. It is at a local display being road tested. All seems to be working great. We had 7 full size cars being pulled for about 10 hours . It will be doing this for the rest of the season. So far running great.
Mike