Does anyone out there know of a mfg of On30 dual gauge track and turnouts? I model the "TWEETSIE" and they shared alot of dual gauge track in Johnson City TN with the Clinchfield and the Southern. Dwayne
The problem you are going to see with using On30 and O scale standard gauge track with the dual gauge is the visual effect, it looks like 3rd rail Lionel. To get the right effect you want with dual gauge then you have to use On3 and Proto 48 to obtain that offset look.
Royce ;)
Hmmm..... I didn't think about that. The clinchfield interchanged alot of coal at Johnson City with the ET&WNC and these cars were side by side. Also, they had some dual gauge track that ran into the engine house. I will have to study on this...
Personally it shouldn't be to bad to look at? If it's is, I would suggest hand laying the outside SG rail to a scale of 42" "metere?" gauge. Something like that. It may not be standard gauge, but will give the overall effect you're looking for with a third rail. You can also scratch build some 42" rolling stock, to the size of Sg stuff, and that should work. No one will notice the rail difference, unless you plan on doing some SG running with 205-206-207, or 208, then you might want to re-gauge an engine, or build your own. Hopefully you might be doing work with a swivel coupler, and use the ten wheelers, or it would be nice to have 7 for switching duty, like they used to, or even #s 4-6; the 2-8-0s alsodid some switching in JC.
Rock On!
~Dusten
There's a lot more to laying a true dual gauge turnout than simply putting an additional rail alongside an existing turnout. The observation that dual gauge On30 and Ow60 track would look like Lionel is pretty astute. While the middle rail wouldn't quite be dead center like Lionel track, it might be close enough to actually be functional for a 3 rail loco. In any event, that middle rail wouldn't have enough offset to one side to look anything like Std & 3ft dual gauge track. If you wanted to keep the proportion close, the wider track would be about 1.027" in gauge. Then if you used a scale proportion of 1:55, the narrow gauge would scale out close to 36 scale inches and the standard gauge would be 56.5". Harold Minky has been a proponent of this size for several years now, but the hitch is that the standard gauge portion of this scale would have to be entirely scratch built. Using a scale of 1:48 would change the scale dimension of both gauges, making them incorrect for any prototype railroads, but the rails would remain in correct relative proportion to each other visually.
Bill in FL
Dear All,
I quite agree. The effect, as far as I'm concerned, is ruined by how close to dead center the third rail is.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Whether the effect is ruined by the third rail being close to dead centre depends on what you are trying to model. The following video shows operations on a dual gauge 750mm (about 29 1/2 inches) and standard gauge line in Germany. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6S4j-U1ESI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6S4j-U1ESI)Thus for any-one trying to model 30 inch and standard dual gauge the effect is right!
Hamish
The problem is not just the 30" guage ,it is with the standard gauge used bt American manufactures comes out to be more of 5' instead of 4' 8 1/2".
Royce
Quote from: Royce Wilson on October 31, 2011, 05:38:28 PM
The problem is not just the 30" guage ,it is with the standard gauge used bt American manufactures comes out to be more of 5' instead of 4' 8 1/2".
Royce
As I see it is more a matter of scale, the european O scale of 1:45 comes out at pretty exact for standard gauge and quite close for 30 inch on 16,5mm (HO) track (and even closer for 750mm), the American scale of 1:48 comes out as too wide for both (16.5mm track scales to 31.2 inches in 1:48 scale). The British scale of 1:34.5 comes out as too narrow for both.
Hamish
I must be getting dyslexic in my old age. British O scale is 1:43.5, not 1:34.5
Hamish
Well, I could just get a Grandt Line kit and move the drivers out to 3ft gauge on the Ten wheelers and move everything to that. If I want to model anything in the Johnson City, TN yard, I need dual gauge track. As I have never used one of these kits, I don't know if it is worth the trouble and the risk of spreading the engines. The cars would be very little trouble,just change out the axles. Most of the trucks are from San Juan as these are closer to what the ET&WNC used. Any Ideas???? ??? Dwayne
I wouldn't think that would be a good idea. The wheels can be spread out, but the combination link on the valve gear, can't, and neither can the cylinders, unless you chop it up.
Since the ten wheelers are based on three foot gauge models, the Standard gauge models can be 42" gauge, and no one would really know. If the ten wheeler is actual scale to 3ft gauge, then take some 42" gauge suff, and scale them to look like standard gauge equipment, and that should solve the problem of the looks and size portions. It should all look right.
All I can say, is trial and error :D
Rock On!
~Dusten
S. Calloway,
I would contact the Schwedler brothers, Stan and Sheldon, at Coronado Scale Models. They do the Grandt conversions for a fee. While I have not used their services for "broad gauging to 3 ft." I have for a couple of other things.
Nothing but positive things to say about Coronado Scale Models. They have an ad in every issue of the Gazette and it will have contact information. No web site. Not at home or I would give you the contact info.
I do know they offered this service for the BLI C-16, the Bachmann OF 2-8-0, the Bachmann 2-6-0, the Shay, the Climax and I think the rail truck, but not sure about the later.
If it can be done, they can do it and will do it right the first time, quickly and what I think is for a reasonable fee.
Hope this helps.
I say go for it!
I plan to have one short segment of dual gauge track on my lay-out. The On30 part will be operational. The standard gauge part will not.
I plan to use San Juan wheel sets and squeeze the wheels in to fit the "standard gauge" track for the one or two standard gauge cars that are going to just sit there.
To obtain the visual effect, the dual gauge will be at the back of the scene and the third (standard gauge) rail will be set at a distance to create the visual effect of "correct" spacing of three rail dual gauge trackage. My civil engineer daughter can use her math skills to calculate what the distance/gauge needs to be to achieve the visual effect, if that makes sense.
In other words, the standard gauge won't be standard gauge. It will be too narrow. But the distance it will be viewed from, combined with some weeds, etc, will cover up this fact, I hope. Worth a try.
This is the way I was leaning. The standard tracks into the engine house will not be used, they will be only for "looks". Also, the "standard"gauge tracks beside the engine house will be to hold cars only for the comparison of size with the narrow gauge cars. One of my copies of the Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette has an article on the Grant Line conversion And the kit does not look to hard. The ET&WNC had, and still does,have a beautiful old engine house and I would love to include this as well as some of the other shop buildings. Other than this "area", the rest of the layout will be all narrow gauge. If I can work this out,including several turnouts, I will leave the "gauge" of the ten wheelers alone. If not, I will be speading them out. I DO NOT want to scratch build standard gauge cars,mostly Clinchfield hoppers,I want to save that for the narrow gauge stuff. The standard gauge hoppers and some period boxcars I can purchase. Choices,choices. :-\
I have given this some thought, and I was thinking a S/Sn3 dual gauge would look about right. It'd give the right spacing for the outside rail and you could always use S scale axles on O scale trucks and not look too odd.
Problem it, nobody makes that scale for dual gauge track, either.
If any company had, I might have made the "Bemberg area" theme for my On30 layout (I model the ET&WNC, which was dual gauge form Johnson City to just past Elizabethton, TN) I'd wanted to do but knew I wouldn't get the track right for there as the entire area was dual gauge...
The Largo Petroleum Company added a third rail for standard gauge to their 30 Inch gauge line, when building their refinery. Two Milwaukee 4wPM diesels were used one at each end to move the necessary equipment to the refinery site, at times a winch cable was used to help out if loading was to heavy for the engines.
Yes it looks like Lionel 3 rail but there was a prototype for the track.
Ken
Using Proto48 with On30 WILL give you the correct spacing for what we are accustomed to seeing in the world of 3ft/standard gauge track with the narrow gauge rail being closer top the outside rail. The drawback is building a correct Proto48 standard gauge loco. On our layout we used a Bachmann/Williams Ge44 tonner converted to Proto48 using NWSL Stanton drives. Works great and makes a seet running loco.
If anyone made dual gauge proto48/On30 flex track, they could name their price!
Quote from: RickRail on March 04, 2023, 08:16:43 AMUsing Proto48 with On30 WILL give you the correct spacing for what we are accustomed to seeing in the world of 3ft/standard gauge track with the narrow gauge rail being closer top the outside rail. The drawback is building a correct Proto48 standard gauge loco.
Man, if someone would just make a proto48 Porter fireless 0-6-0 like the one the North American Rayon plant in Elizabethton had. That ran within sight of the 3-foot ET&WNC and interchanged with them (though I've never seen a photo of one of the ET&WNC ten-wheelers in the same shot as the Porter, but they ran near each other for almost 14 years).