This is an attempt at an answer to the countless threads on this forum, concerning what to do with old rolling stock that won't run with new rolling stock.
I believe I share a mutual sentimental attachment to my old equipment. It's next to worthless to the MR world, but means something to me. So... how do we get these dinosaurs running again? As an example of what can be done, I will use an old box car. This is an AHM model that was part of a set I received for Christmas some 41 years ago (jeepers, I'm old).
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN7043.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN7047.jpg)
Three things need to be fixed to get it "rail worthy": weight, trucks and couplers.
Weight
I opened up the car and used a little epoxy to fasten an extra metal plate to the existing plate. It's still a little underweight, but my track work is so great, that underweight is no problem. ;D
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN7040.jpg)
Trucks
This old car had trucks attached with plastic plugs. I'm sure we've all seen this before. I removed the truck, pushed the plug back into the bolster as far as I could, cut off the remaining plug sticking out, and applied some plastic cement (let it soak in and dry for a couple of days).
Drill a 1/16" hole in the bolster. Use a 2-56 tap to make some threads for a 2-56 screw (.25"). Voila! Use whatever free rolling set of trucks you desire. You can tinker with other types of leftover small screws (I have), but the 2-56 seems to work best.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN7044.jpg)
Couplers
This car had truck mounted couplers (talgo trucks). I sanded down the ends of the car and attached Kadee coupler boxes. In this case, I used some EZMate Mark II couplers that were lying around. They work pretty well. If they fail, metal couplers will soon follow. That's it folks. There may be some height adjustment required using fiber washers on the truck bolsters. In this case, the height was correct.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN7042.jpg)
Because I have been modeling a while, I had all these parts available at my work bench. For a first-timer, there will be some cost for gathering the necessary parts.
This car is still essentially worthless. However, it can now run with my 21st Century equipment. The sentimental value is what matters here--watching my childhood memories running with the new equipment is priceless. Somehow, I think I'm not alone.
Regards,
Jonathan
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN7048.jpg)
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/jsnvogel/Projects/DSCN7049.jpg)
Quote from: jonathan on November 18, 2011, 05:16:42 AM
I believe I share a mutual sentimental attachment to my old equipment. It's next to worthless to the MR world, but means something to me. So... how do we get these dinosaurs running again? As an example of what can be done, I will use an old box car. This is an AHM model that was part of a set I received for Christmas some 41 years ago (jeepers, I'm old).
Heh. Got you beat. I still run stuff I got for Christmas
at least 45 years ago. ;D
JBJ,
Jeepers, YOU'RE old! ;D
jv
thanks for posting this. we can tell all the newbies what is involved in upgrading those old train set cars, but your photos give some idea of the work involved. anybody who is just starting out should bookmark this post, and decide for themselves if they feel up to the task of converting their old cars
it should be noted that the cost of new trucks can be $5 or 6, a pair of couplers with draft gear boxes another $2 or so. added to the $3 to5 i've seen older cars on sale for at train shows, and you are in the range of new cars at the same train show.......
i'd be interested to know if you plug the bolster holes in tyco cars with the snap in trucks, or try to re-use the trucks with new wheelsets.
Jward,
I have tried both methods on the Tyco cars. I find filling in the hole gives better results. The snap in trucks are a little too loose to be reliable. It's been a while, but I think I used a wood dowel to fill in the holes on those cars. If memory serves the Mantua, green, Western Maryland flatcars were made the same way.
I have never been able to upgrade a tank car. Just isn't enough material to work with in the coupler area. Ruined a couple trying, though. :)
Old open hopper cars can be tricky in the coupler area, too, but can be done.
Regards,
Jonathan
I take an old AHM wheel set and pull the metal axle out. Glue the half axle into the kingpin hole with the wheel flat on the floor and the shaft out the kingpinn hole. Then I saw the shaft off flush with the bolster bottom, tap the hole 2-56 and mount the truck.
There is probably Plastistruct tubing that could be used to plug the holes in those old Tycos and Life Like cars. I've sen these cars go for a buck apiece at train shows. Trucks and couplers add about what Jonathan mentioned. It is a lot of work for cheapo cars.
Years ago I did take the time to redo some AHM watermelon cars somewhat in the way Jon mentioned. I always used Kadee trucks when I could so these watermelon cars had deluxe trucks. I had a whole train of ACL cars (I think I had 17 cars) - I resprayed them and decalled them. I never got around to getting an ACL loco and caboose for my unit Watermelon train!
I use "JB Weld" 4-minute epoxy to fill the truck mounting holes on old Life-Like and Tyco cars. Even though it says '4-minute' on the package, I let it set over night. File the bolster smooth, drill it out with a #50 bit, and tap for a 2-56 screw. A 1/16" bit may work, but the threads are going to be tight and require more force to turn the screw in. If the body is still too high after changing the trucks Kadee #211 shims can be used to lower body mounted coupler boxes.
Len
Quote from: jonathan on November 18, 2011, 10:00:24 AM
JBJ,
Jeepers, YOU'RE old! ;D
jv
Older than dirt, Jonathan. ;D
Of course, the stuff that I run that's that old is Revell and Mantua/Tyco. What does it say about the equipment that it's still operational 45 years later? ;)
What you do depends on the kind of set up the car has. Some bolsters have bigger holes than others and different ways the trucks are fit to the cars, which dictates what to do. Tyco, Bachmann, Life-Like and AHM for example have larger size bolster holes. Others like Athearn and Gilbert (I am sure I am leaving many out) have a small hole bc a screw is used to secure the truck.
For AHM, I use the "pin" that holds the truck to the car. I glue just the pin in the bolster, cut off the head of the pin, then sand or file to make the surface smooth with the bolster. Then just drill a small hole and use a self taping screw to hold the truck.
For the other types of cars I mentioned, I like to use a 2-56 nut and 2-56 machine screw. I use a 15W soldering pencil to melt the nut into the plastic hole in the bolster (there are a lot of resouces on line that I found were heplful for instruction on this method). Doing the same of making sure it is level with the bolster. Then use as long a 2-56 screw as possible (both the nuts and screws can be found at Radio Shack) to secure the truck. Sometimes however, I have found that even using a longer screw, the screw will work its way loose. In those cases, I replace the machine screw with the self tapping sheet metal screw and screw right into the nut. So far that has worked as a solution.
I'm glad to see there are others out there saving those old AHM, Tyco, Pocher, etc. cars. I have found the wooden dowel-in-the-kingpin-hole method to work quite well (you can put the dowel in an electric drill to sand it down a little if too tight).
A suggestion on adding weight to any car: I found some automobile wheel weights for sale at a local Harbor Freight. These weights come in 0.5 and 1 ounce sizes so you can mix and match to come very close to NMRA standards (you will also need a small digital scale...also available at Harbor Freight). The best thing about these wheel weights (in addition to their inexpensive price) is that they have double-sided tape on one side...makes installation easy.
Ray
I think ive got you all beat,ive been in and out of this hobby at least six times first set was A-F, blue comet,1946 maby 47,any how this time ive been bit real bad wow this new stuff is something else,ive some 79 foot madison arch top window cars,they are beautys,from the old days 60s, and trying to find a atlantic loco close to the 3200s B&M used,in ho, any one know of a maker out there? the wheel weights do work very nice,Ihave a S-F-2-8-0 with smoke,pulling 11 nmra standard cars and my train room is 81/2x10'and after a few times around the track you would think[except its white] I had live steam going on.I love it..back to the atlantic-I would like a good heavy one.thank you for your help.GRZ
Jonathan;
Here's another old goat (67) tossing in his two centavos;
I have a menage that ranges over thirty years old. Last winter, I established a set of standardsto go by as I started to remodel the cars:
All cars will have Kadee 58 or 150 couplers.
Draft gear will meet guage standards (Kadee coupler gauge).
Trucks will be sprung or high-grade equalized, and wheels whall all meet the rail simultaneously.
wheel sets whall be metal, meet or exceed NMRA flange, fillet, etc standards.
truck bearing surfaces shall be reamed out, and graphite/Labelle oil mix installed.
I figure that being really fussy now will save me getting ulcers later on.
Weathering cars is a lot of fun; a little research as to where the car came from, climate, environment, etc.
proper numbering shall be applied (there is a stupid feeling when you have a string of "Rutland" cars IE, with the same numbering and someone (s) sees it..)
To me, all of this is not only a lot of fun, but time well spent doing it right.
I am glad that smaller decoders are available; it does make things easier in that department, too. I am also at a point where I am going to start weeding out cars I no longer want. I will make sure they work reasonably well, and give them away to someone or a club, preferably kids, who could use them.
Rich C.
I like the idea of tire wheel weights. Price?
Last year here, they outlawed the use of lead weights for fishing. That has resulted in my finding a use for the lead to add weight to freight. They stay put with the help of a little 2 part epoxy.
Quote from: jbrock27 on January 12, 2013, 09:42:02 AM
I like the idea of tire wheel weights. Price?
Last year here, they outlawed the use of lead weights for fishing. That has resulted in my finding a use for the lead to add weight to freight. They stay put with the help of a little 2 part epoxy.
Today, even the stick-on tire weights commonly used for mag wheels, are made of zinc rather than lead, because of the fear of lead poisoning. The real lead tire weights can be found in some places, but are getting harder & harder to find (and more expensive). In many cases, as long as space permits, I have been using pennies to bring car weight up to NMRA recommendations. It's usually the cheapest way to add weight!
Bill in FtL
Yes, I realize. I recently ordered steal stick on 1/4 oz weights to avoid lead all the time. I make sure to wash my hands really good after playing with the lead.
I had read someone else used 10 pennies glued together with Crazy Glue and they made mention for cost, you could not beat it. A great idea!
I just went on the Harbor Freight website and found those (non lead) wheel weights I was talking about in my previous post.
Harbor Freight lists them as: 0.25 oz. (6 strips of 8 separate weights) = $7.99
0.50 oz. (12 strips of 4 separate weights) = $9.99
I bought one of each several years ago - and still have plenty left. To save on shipping I would recommend shopping in-store...as opposed to mail order.
Someone mentioned using pennies? Pennies make the idea weight inside tank cars. Just glue them together, then to the inside of the tank, and you have not only increased the car's weight...you have also increased its value!
Ray
Bc there is not an H.F. close to me, I actually do well by ordering online bc the gas for the trip would actually cost me more. But your tip is a good one about going into the store instead.
I did not know that tanker's came apart-very interesting....
Quote from: electrical whiz kid on January 12, 2013, 09:22:15 AM
truck bearing surfaces shall be reamed out, and graphite/Labelle oil mix installed.
Rich-
he graphite will "plate" onto your bearing surfaces so there's no need
to add the oil. Also, the oil will hold dust and crud, at least partially
defeating the purpose of the lubrication.
-- D
I have kept much of my rolling stock as well from when I first got started when I was 8.
I even have my first car kit, a Silver Streak 40' dbldr boxcar lettered for the SRR. I've upgraded it over the years and now it has complete stand-off ladders and grabs, complete A-B system etc.
This is a pic from before its last upgrade. Not bad for car that's 50!
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/cjcrescent/SRRauto.jpg)
I must be the rich one i use nickles to add more weight. i have several with double stick tape that i add to see if the car rides better or a tender or even a locomotive. the new pennys are light. might cost 6 cents verses 5 cents to get same results and yes i add pennys also to my nickle. i should weigh them to see what weight they are at i only just do the ones i like the best. Dave
A-Line (Walthers mfg # 116) makes an entire line of weights for locos and cars. The flat self stick weights come in two 1/4oz and one 1/2oz sizes. Also a special set for 85ft flatcars.
Len
I probably should have been more explicit in my earlier post. I insert pennies (as a retired psychologist I am not rich enough for nickels) into the tanks of tank car kits. I try to arrange these over the trucks (with an equal number over each truck until the car weight comes up to, or near, NMRA standards for that length of car). As far as I know (and according to my experience) RTR tank cars do not come apart (referring to the tank components themselves); or would be seriously damaged if one tried.
Ray
PS: After reading though the posts on this topic, and others, you all are aware that Mr. Bach Man provides a spell checker? Just a thought.
Ray, I just took an old junky Life Life tanker I had laying around and tried to take it apart. And guess what?...
Lord have mercy jborck...'been there and definitely done that. I have learned to resort to running tank cars that are too light for that very reason. I am glad to see you tried disassembly on a 'junker'...sadly not the same path I trod.
There isn't a lot of places one can add weight to a tank car without it being quite noticeable. I have added (glued) small strips of lead to the tops of the bolsters and alongside the frame with limited results.
You could always use that broken tank car as a scenic element. Here in Northeastern Alabama old tank cars (with the ends cut out and frames/trucks removed) are used as large culverts on some back roads. I know of one instance where a 50'(?) flatcar is being used as a roadway bridge...one drives across really carefully as there are no guide rails.
Regards,
Ray
Quote from: CNE Runner on January 13, 2013, 11:19:50 AM
as a retired psychologist
As far as I know (and according to my experience) RTR tank cars do not come apart (referring to the tank components themselves); or would be seriously damaged if one tried.
PS: After reading though the posts on this topic, and others, you all are aware that Mr. Bach Man provides a spell checker? Just a thought.
Ray-
Really? Me too. Where did you train?
You are correct that tank cars do not typically come apart without pain and (usually serious) damage. However, you can drill a small hole in the bottom and insert an appropriate load ob BBs which will more or less self level. Be sure to plug the hole.
This board is not about spell checking or grammar. Yes, it can be annoying to have to try to figure out what someone is trying to communicate but that's all part of the fun. Try not to let it bug you.
-- D
Minnesota
CJ; Nice looking box car. I am starting to see a lot of guys going towards the "craftsman" end of detailing. There is a wealth and total treasure of parts out here in the railroading world, and it all makes things look somuch nicer. I think if John Allen and a few old salts came back they would be happily astounded at the state to which this hobby has achieved.
Rich C.
Ray, that is exactly what I was keeping that junker around for, some scenery. But after I saw your post about adding the pennies to weight them, I wanted to see if it would come apart in halves and it did!
So I am saying your penny idea should work if you make a cylinder out of them and then glue the cylinder in the bottom half, laying down. Won't this work?
PS I use my own spell checker. But where is the option on here?
Thanks for the post that helps allot because after 15 years of not running trains. And now my son wants to start up i know what to do with all my old stuff.
Quote from: Doneldon on January 13, 2013, 05:32:14 PM
Quote from: CNE Runner on January 13, 2013, 11:19:50 AM
as a retired psychologist
As far as I know (and according to my experience) RTR tank cars do not come apart (referring to the tank components themselves); or would be seriously damaged if one tried.
PS: After reading though the posts on this topic, and others, you all are aware that Mr. Bach Man provides a spell checker? Just a thought.
Ray-
Really? Me too. Where did you train?
You are correct that tank cars do not typically come apart without pain and (usually serious) damage. However, you can drill a small hole in the bottom and insert an appropriate load ob BBs which will more or less self level. Be sure to plug the hole.
This board is not about spell checking or grammar. Yes, it can be annoying to have to try to figure out what someone is trying to communicate but that's all part of the fun. Try not to let it bug you.
-- D
Minnesota
Squirting some white glue into the hole the BB's were loaded through, then shaking the car to spread the glue around will keep the BB's from shifting once it sets up.
Len
Quote from: CNE Runner on January 13, 2013, 11:19:50 AM
I probably should have been more explicit in my earlier post. I insert pennies (as a retired psychologist I am not rich enough for nickels) into the tanks of tank car kits. I try to arrange these over the trucks (with an equal number over each truck until the car weight comes up to, or near, NMRA standards for that length of car). As far as I know (and according to my experience) RTR tank cars do not come apart (referring to the tank components themselves); or would be seriously damaged if one tried.
Ray
PS: After reading though the posts on this topic, and others, you all are aware that Mr. Bach Man provides a spell checker? Just a thought.
i am not sure what you guys are doing, but i've never had a tank car in HO or N scales that the body didn't come apart. some need more patience than others. what i have found regarding weights is that pennies stacked on edge will fit inside the tank body. glue them together in a stack then place in the tank and glue to the bottom part. i believe 5 equal one ounce.
jonathon,
I like what you did with your old Pennsy box car. There was nothing wrong with it that a little work could not cure. It is, and always was, a nice-looking car.
I would have some equipment that would be of that time period, but I changed over to N-scale in 1978. For me, it was a good move. I could not build HO railroads that could support the type of operation I am interested in with the limited space I had available at the time.
Where I live, lead is not banned. In the narrow confines of N-scale cars, I have found there is not enough contact surface to make practical use of tape-type weights. I wind up gluing on flat weights.
What works better for me is to use fishing sinkers. I like to use the lead egg-type sinkers. These can be easily flattened in a vise to provide a flat gluing surface. They are available in 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1-oz. weights. I find the 1/4 and 1/2 oz. sizes most useful for N-scale.
Les
Les, I do the same thing, flatten bullet or worm weights to give them a good gluing surface.
At first I tried flattening them in the vice, but found this too cumbersome, so instead I use the little anvil that is part of my Craftsman vice and take a hammer and pound the weight flat. Bc the lead is soft, I don't have to hit it too many times or with too much force. I have gotten good enough that they look pretty symmetrical when I am done.
I was perplexed on how to add weight to one of those Jackson open cars that run on my pike finally I pryed the roof off and glued several of my wifes old (before we were married) refrigerator magnet cards cut up until the car came close to NMRA standards. Now with the roof glued back down you can't see them and the and the car runs better than ever. Just thought I'd throw in this idea.
I knew of a guy who poured plaster of paris and bbs into a tank car through the dome. Car weighed a ton!
Sometimes you can turn over the underframe and look for voids. I once used very thin solder glued into the center sill of a flat car.
By the way the pennies you guys are using cost the government two cents to make.
I use two types of weighting on my cars. A simple one is to go to a local gun shop or outdoor store, and buy a bag of fine buck or lead shot, which if you're not familiar, are basically small lead beads, find the smallest size available. This is good for cars with only small spaces for weight or hopper pockets. I put the shot into the open spaces and put few drop of a thick glue/water mix on them, and let them dry. In hopper cars, if the car is not quite up to the NMRA weights at this point, I pour some into the hopper pockets and glue them in. I then weather the instide of the car, and cover over the lead shot with fine coal or ballast and glue it on top. A hint when doing this, real hopper cars have a tendency of having a few tons of coal left over in the car if the material does no readily dump out. Through transit, the leftover material will vibrate down into the pockets, which looks just like the coal that covers the weights in my cars. *Warning*: You are dealing with lead here, use the necessary precautions.
Another way in which I weight cars is by gluing stainless steel nuts into the inside of cars that are enclosed (Boxcars, Covered Hoppers). I attach them either by 5 minute epoxy (recommended) or super glue. This is not a requirement, just an interesting little note, I use nuts because I get them for free, so I can't beat the price, and of the type I use, they are AAR (Association of American Railroads) signalling electronic nuts, which I get a basically unlimited supply of, as old signal relays and other parts are trashed. I found these to be exactly 1/4 ounce each, so they easy to figure out how many you need per car.
Thanks for the idea Joe323.
I have done something similar Woody using Common finishing nails; like 4s. For a hopper car, I have glued 4 nails underneath in the center beam. I cut the head of the nail off if it interferes with my laying them flat and on top of one another in the center beam. Once I dry fit to see how many I can fit, I take them out, put a little 2 part Epoxy in the center beam, lay 1 layer of nails, then add some more Epoxy and another layer of nails. I do this until I can't lay any more nails down. I have not measured on my scale how much weight it adds, but you can feel it and the car runs better.
As far as wheel weights go... They make stick-on wheel weights for auto's that is segmented at either 1/4 or 1/2 oz. and has a peel off tape already in place... See any auto parts store.