It was sad really, as I rumaged through the last items on the shelves of a Hobbytown. Today was the final day. This store, while not the greatest, was only 1 mile from my house. It was very convenient when looking for a little paint, strip wood, styrene or #11 blades for my hobby knife. The next closest store is quite a distance.
I took advantage of the last day as they were offering 90% off everything. I swept up all the little brass screws, washers and nuts. There was an NWSL quartering tool I had always wanted. The price was certainly right. Picked up everything that might even come close to being useful.
We are getting closer, I think, to a day when everything is ordered on line. Hopefully, the train shows will keep coming around. I like to pick up, study, smell, taste and shake an item before I decide to buy. This is hard to get use to.
Regards,
Jonathan
I feel for you,
I have seen several small mom and pop shops go the way of the dodo bird, I am lucky (Sort of) to live just south of Los Angeles, but even still hobby shops are getting fewer and far between and the ones close by seem to cater to gas powered R/C cars, If I was still into r/c gizmo's I would be happy, but my days of crashing hundred dollar bills into the ground have passed.
NM-Jeff
yea, got 2 hobby shops that are a close. (4 streets away and 17.7 miles) The hobby town i used to go to went down, but not so hard. It had a buy one get free. It was not bad, i bought 10 freight cars and picked up 4 more last summer while they still had stuff in stock... but that was only model trains. Their RC cars and planes was what kept them in business.
The 4 streets away is Wingz Hobby shop. They've been in business longer than my dad being in 1st grade (when he moved into lakewood, ohio). My grandpa knew the original owner (father of the current owner) quite well. At wingz, they make their money from the trains, but make a good amount from planes too. The main difference i can think of is its family owned. I think some hobby shops will last longer than others, but there may be a time where everything is ordered online... waiting for an order is great... but i prefer walking home looking at a new freight car or passenger car I've been saving up for knowing i'll be running it when i get home.
I don't know whether one can 'count the LHS out'. Without question, the Internet has changed the way business is carried on in our economy. No longer is the public content to pay MSRP for anything. Along with a determination for the lowest price came the dissolution of many mom & pop stores as well as the proliferation of foreign (read: Asian) products. It seems very little is manufactured in the U.S. anymore.
The incredible increase in shipping rates, coupled with the addition of sales tax on all Internet purchases (how long did you think our politicians would let all that revenue slip through their fingers?), makes on-line shopping marginally cheaper than buying locally. I find it humorous when a buyer, at one of the train shows, says; "I can get that cheaper on the Internet." The look on their face is priceless when we figure up their 'Internet best price' + shipping. In most occasions, our price is lower AND they walk out with the item(s).
No, what is stalling the rebirth of the LHS is the state of the economy. Frankly I spend a mere fraction of what I used to spend on the hobby. With the rising cost of food, gasoline, and utilities one has to cut somewhere...that 'somewhere' is discretionary spending. This scenario should make train shopping at shows much more popular...or so it would seem.
Ray
This is sad but I have trouble relating. Unfortunately in this economy I have to bargain shop. I research what I want and then I find it for the cheapest price... Most of the time, that's online. I refuse to buy from my Hobbytown down the street anymore. The have lost my special orders countless times, the owner runs a sloppy business. His employees even admit that it's bad and are always apologizing to me. I tried to be patient but after 3 years, I'm done. The next nearest store is great, but it's a long drive. By the time I drive all the way there and back it would be cheaper to buy online (gas money). No doubt if you have a LHS that gives you great service it will be greatly missed.
-Brad
QuoteThe incredible increase in shipping rates, coupled with the addition of sales tax on all Internet purchases (how long did you think our politicians would let all that revenue slip through their fingers?), makes on-line shopping marginally cheaper than buying locally.
But as of right now you can buy online with out being taxed. And many places will give you a shipping discount for large orders. I do agree that shipping can get out of hand...You have to know where to look.
Marginally cheaper is still cheaper. Unfortunately I have to watch my pennies. I do prefer to walk out the door with something, but I'll wait if I save a few bucks. Being a college student means i don't have money to blow. :(
-Brad
You're lucky. Over here in the UK we have to pay 20% sales tax on internet shopping.
Good Lord...20% sales tax??? That is outrageous! In the U.S. (in the near future anyway) one would pay whatever their state sales tax is (+ any 'local' tax if it applies). In our part of Alabama that would be ~7.5 %.
Speaking of the U.K.: I was in a mega bookstore today and thoroughly looked through Railway Modeller (a U.K. publication). No, I didn't purchase a copy as it costs $10+ here. There must have been 10 or 15 small locomotives that would be perfect on a mini layout (one was called a Type 3 I think). Another 'revelation' was the number of cardstock structures available. Coupled with this (no pun intended) were the numbers of really neat little 'goods wagons'. [You have your 5-plank and your 7-plank...whatever that means).
It might be interesting to use U.K. locomotives, and rolling stock, on a mini layout to completely change the look and feel. BTW: this stuff is expensive as we are spending dollars against the pound sterling...not a good exchange rate.
Ray
I like to buy locally where ever possible but that means driving at least 10 to 15 miles . I live in a smalltown now and it has its benefits but I sometimes miss Chicago. john 2.
I like to buy from a shop in the area I work, it's a dedicated train shop, the problem is they sell Bachmann and everything else at suggested retail price, I don't mind spending a little more to get the personnel service, but most times it's 40% to 50% above on line, even with shipping. I have bought a few items I wanted right away but I feel like I am throwing money away.
NM-Jeff
Ah yes, pricing... my now defunct Hobbytown use to give me regular discounts plus I got coupons depending on how much I spent at the store. It was still a little more than a train show or online, but I was willing to pay a little more to support a local business. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough.
There is a Michael's Arts and Crafts store in my town, but those prices are much higher when it comes to building and paint supplies. Of course, trains are out of the question.
Now I will have to rely on train shows and the rare long-distance travel to the nearest available hobby store (which doesn't stock much anymore either).
I'm not a fan of ebay, but I have had to bite the bullet and get a couple of things through that method (yuck).
Regards,
Jonathan
Sad but true,I beleive visiting a hobby shop will soon become extint!Even grumpy old men like myself have learned how to use the computer,not that I wanted to!I have 2 small shops nearby,all HO or N gauge.You mention On30 they look at you like your an alien,which maybe I am.Ive been forced to computerize,first of all they have no clue what your talking about,second they dont have it,but can order it for you.Now I just made one trip here,if I order Ill make another,although not alot I just wasted gas money which can be used for shipping charges.So I now buy 99% of what I need on ebay,its all their,SOMEWHERE ya just gotta find it!I try to use a big seller that has alot of things I need,I combine shipping when I can,unless you buy from your own state theirs no tax,you find your items,pay,and its shipped to your door,usually pretty fast.You dont waste time or gas,or get annoyed cause they dont carry it.Never,ever thought Id see the day I would use a computer,but as I said your almost forced.
DWU - My comments are not a 'slam' against eBay (Lord knows I have sold a ton of things on this excellent website); but a warning that you can [frequently] do better on other sites. A case in point was an Tyco Heinz pickle reefer. I put it on eBay for $4.99 - it sold for $17!!! Furthermore, I have seen cars, such as the Bachmann track cleaning tank car, listed having a starting bid of MSRP.
Check around at the other discounters such as (but not limited to): Discount Toy Trains, Toy Train Heaven, Dallas Model Works, etc.). I think you will find that a little 'searching' will net you real savings. Another excellent place to score a bargain is a train show. Most vendors (such as myself) would prefer to sell an item - rather than schlep it from one show to another. This is not to be taken as an opportunity to submit 'low ball' or ridiculous prices...do your homework.
Regards,
Ray
the problem with losing the local hobby shops is that tghe online retailers aren't going to stock the parts or obscure items you may want for your layout. the local hobby shop, at least one that is worth patronizing, will special order it for you. i tend to spend my money at places that can and will get me what i want, and give the others a wide berth.
bear in mind that my perspective may be a bit different from most in the hobby. i lay my own track, and items like spikes can be very hard to find.the same goes with pine roadbed (anybody remember that?) which is what i prefer to lay my track on. unfortunately, nobody seems to make it anymore. and the inability to find bags of ties led me to cut down matchsticks for ties....
the big online stores will sell you the items that sell well, and leave the rest alone. ever try to find a set of number boards for an alco fa1? trainworld won't sell them to you.
my philosophy is that if a retailer will order things like that for me, i will buy alot of other items from them as well.
You can buy HO spikes from Proto:87. I found HO sugar pine ties on the Kappler website.
The loss of the local hobby shop cuts deeper than the reasons already given. No one has mentioned the loss of social contacts involved.
The local hobby shop is a place where local modellers meet and associate with each other. A good LHS owner (who manages his own shop) will get to know who his customers are, and what they are into modelling. He can facilitate networking among his customers. Not only does this help his customers, it helps the store by identifying and solidifying its customer base.
Sometimes, this goes even farther. Where I lived in Mississippi, the local hobby shop provided the local chapter of IPMS with a place to meet. (IPMS- International Plastic Modelers' Society: an organization devoted to building static plastic models). IPMS in turn, sponsered area model contests, at which LHS stores could market their goods.
My LHS is fifty miles away, but the owner and myself are on a first-name basis.
Les
Jward and Desertdweller,
You both bring up great points, the only time I see another modeler face to face is at the LHS, I'm not into clubs to many politics for me, one of my favorite things is when the LHS brings out boxes of forgotten items from the back room, many no longer made, also once in a while someone brings boxes full of unwanted train items to the LHS to sell, I always seem to find something good when I rumage around.
NM-Jeff
I'm sad to say I do the majority of my shopping online. If I had a hobby shop in my area that was worth a darn, I would frequent them more often. Only things I go for are anymore is building supplies and such. One of the shops did have a knowledgeable older gentleman that was very helpful, but he retired a number of years ago. While he was there, I could get about anything I needed and the shop stocked much more train related items. The shops cater more to the R/C crowd now, and the employees are mostly kids just out of high school that don't know jack about squat.
I have to agree with Thomas1911 in that most of the hobby shops, I have visited, are overwhelmingly R/C oriented. We have an excellent place in Huntsville, AL that is probably 90% R/C. Having said that, their selection of brass, wood, wire, styrene, and adhesives is second to none. At my last visit (needed some 0.016" wire) I was shown an Aeronca 7AC that cost several hundred dollars!! Now I see why hobby shops are moving from plastic models and trains to R/C. This store sells everything from cars to helicopters, to boats, and fixed-wing aircraft. Check out the RC Hobby Barn on the Internet.
Ray
It doesn't bother me so much that the hobby shops are more R/C oriented being that, now don't judge me too harshly, I do partake in those hobbies as well. I have a fondness of assembling things, whether it be trains, planes, cars, boats, and then being able to see those things operate (don't get me started on the whole RTR, ARF, RTF thing >:(). But I still don't give the shops my patronage. Its mostly the lack of knowlege that keeps me away. If it weren't for this forum and others, I'd have a real problem getting the info that I need.
"...to bargain shop. I research what I want and then I find it for the cheapest price... Most of the time, that's online.."
Been doing this forever during times of yearly taxable income, being either 80k or 10k !
doug c
I went into my LHS to buy a Micro 3d Heli for my nephew who had asked me to teach him to fly one, the kid behind the counter started telling me all about which one was best, I picked one I liked, he said their store policy was to test all R/C's before they leave the store to make sure they work, I watched as he plugged in the battery then turned it on and did a quick little hover... he set the radio down at which point I picked it up and flew the helicopter around the shop acting like it was out of control then bought it back over to the counter and landed it, I about died laughing at the look on the condescending little brats face.
Nm-Jeff
Jeff - As a 'retired' flight instructor I used to have students do that with the real fixed-wing aircraft...which is probably why our wine bill has dropped drastically since I no longer instruct. Recently I looked at an R/C model of a Fairchild 24W that was going for over $1,000 (this was custom built and had an electric motor turning the 'fan')! I guess there are others that are infected with the 'modeling' fever...that Fairchild sure was a nice ship though.
Cheers,
Ray
CNE Runner,
Those are Pretty, I've not flown one but they look as though they would be a joy to fly, as I mentioned My days of crashing $100 dollar bills into the ground have passed.
Brushless motors and new battery technology have come a long way, they make it possible to get a decent flight time from and electric powered R/C, but at the same time take a little flavor away from the experience of flying them.
One of these days if I have a chance to build a permanent outdoor railway I will look into making it R/C.
NM-Jeff
I guess I have a different view. I routinely pay more at a LHS, since I get a lot of valuable information from the staff. (Almost) nobody on the Internet is going to spend two hours with me talking about DCC stuff or the differences between Shinohara and Atlas switches, so I can figure out which one to buy. Even if I can find that, it takes a lot longer. It's worth the 10-15% premium for that. (And I also have a personal code of ethics about this: if I spent their two hours, I'm buying it from them unless there's some reason I can't.)
I'm price sensitive just like everyone else. If my LHS has to buy a Spectrum 4-6-0 for 20% more than I can buy it online, and I haven't availed myself of specific services about it, I'm sure as heck going to buy it online. (Or, in my case, a different, not-local HS near one of my traveling offices.) No kidding, my non-LHS in a big western city (I live on the east coast) sells the same item for 20% less than my LHS has to buy it.
I have two LHS - one is the full-service one that I spend most of the money with, because they stock (or will order) what I need/want, and because they have the staff who can help me. The other gets essentially none of my business despite being marginally closer, because, well, they don't stock what I want and don't have the staff to help. I don't even consider driving there - it's so much easier to just click, if I'm not going to get service. At least as far as I am concerned, one of these LHS is very much at risk, the other is not.
Blwfish,
10% to 15% I could live with but my Local store is much higher above Internet prices then that, They make a lot their money from first timers or gift givers which is fine, I wish they would give a frequent buyer discount but they don't I have mentioned it.
I do buy most to all of my track (except "G") from them and scenery items which is a Great deal since my thing is making small table top layouts for people/kids.
NM-Jeff
Remember the LHS pays the shipping cost.
I lost my local hobby shop eleven years ago,since then i have had to drive eighty two miles(each way) to the nearest shop,needless to say i don,t get there often and when i do, i find it is cheaper by far to buy on line from America,pay freight and wait three weeks for the items to arrive.I too,like to feel,smell, hold and closely look at the items,but can,t always do that,taking a risk of buying items on the internet can be reduced by precautions that generally works.BUT at the end of the day,a closing shop makes it hard to meet other modellers,get expert advise,first hand knowledge of others,keeping the money of transactions local,keeping local people in a job and in my case,i feel isolated from the hobby,(except for finding information in books or on the internet)unless i can get to an exhibition some where. >:( >:( >:(
This thread seems to have 'touched a nerve' as it seems to be self-perpetuating. After reading the insightful posts, I have to admit that I am ready to patronize a LHS. As RAM mentioned, the LHS "pays the shipping costs"...and in today's world that ain't chump change (its going up again after the holidays). [You do realize that you pay the shipping costs...only it is spread across the entire order; bringing your share 'way down.]
NM: The days of renting an aircraft for $100/hour are long gone in most parts of the country (thank you FAA and insurance companies). Most primary instruction is conducted in either Piper Cherokees or Cessna Skyhawks. In either case they approach (or exceed based on the market) $200/hour. I used to do tailwheel instruction in an Aeronca 7AC Champion (65 hp) and the FBO charged $85/hour for just the aircraft! That must put all the money we spend on model railroading in perspective. [BTW: this is a good argument to use with your significant other when you need a new model railroad thing-a-ma-bob.]
Enjoy,
Ray
> LHS pays the shipping cost
But there's also another thing: the distributor pays the shipping if the order is large enough. The LHS that I work with does usually have a big enough order with the bigger distributors (certainly Walthers) to avoid a shipping bill. Of course, I think we pay it no matter what, it's just hidden better in some places than others.
Quote from: 2foot6 on December 01, 2011, 06:26:07 AM
I lost my local hobby shop eleven years ago,since then i have had to drive eighty two miles(each way) to the nearest shop,needless to say i don,t get there often and when i do, i find it is cheaper by far to buy on line from America,pay freight and wait three weeks for the items to arrive.I too,like to feel,smell, hold and closely look at the items,but can,t always do that,taking a risk of buying items on the internet can be reduced by precautions that generally works.
I haven't lost an LHS, but I sympathize with this situation. I live in the very center of a major metropolitan area (job and also social convenience). The hobby shops are all in the suburbs. I don't have a car (because I don't need one on a daily basis, and it would be ridiculously expensive to keep one when I don't need it on a daily basis), and public transit is time-consuming and inconvienient. Pretty much the only time I get to visit a hobby shop is when I travel to visit family. And then, if I'm looking for something really specific, the shop or shops almost never have it (with the exception of replacement couplers).
Just this past holiday weekend I got to visit a fairly new shop that I think is great: A bright, spacious facility; a large selection of stock in N, HO, O, and G; two operating layouts (HO and O); and a huge selection of books and videos. I actually complimented the manager and assured him I'll be back (I will, too). But there was nothing in stock that I needed, and I wasn't in a position to "impulse buy" just for the sake of supporting the store. I felt guilty for not buying anything. But it's the same old song, when I want something specific, I can usually find it on line. I miss the shop (no longer there; the owner retired and the people who bought the shop were clueless) where trains were bought for me when I was a kid and where I continued to buy trains well into my thirties.
J-J:
LHSs will often special order things and maybe even give a discount. One
near me will order from Walther's and charge me the midpoint between
the MSRP and the shop's wholesale price.
-- D
Quote from: Doneldon on December 03, 2011, 12:49:00 AM
J-J:
LHSs will often special order things and maybe even give a discount. One
near me will order from Walther's and charge me the midpoint between
the MSRP and the shop's wholesale price.
-- D
I don't doubt it for a minute, Don, but for me, access is the issue. I can't ask a store owner to order something for me when I can only get to the shop every couple of months or so. At least, I don't feel that I can, because I do feel that when I can only visit a shop every couple of months or so, I really can't establish a relationship such as the one I had with the shop that I mentioned where my parents and grandparents had bought trains for me, and where I eventually bought trains for myself until the owner sold the shop and retired. My feeling there is that I might as well order whatever it is that I want myself on line, if I can find it. :-\
J-J:
Perhaps you can send your order through your LHS a week or two before
you expect to be able to go there. My experience is that most dealers
want to be helpful.
-- Doneldon
Quote from: Doneldon on December 04, 2011, 02:52:49 AM
J-J:
Perhaps you can send your order through your LHS a week or two before
you expect to be able to go there. My experience is that most dealers
want to be helpful.
-- Doneldon
That might work, but, here again, I don't feel comfortable asking a merchant to do that for me if I don't really have a "relationship" with him--which I don't feel I can establish when I can't get to the shop on what I would consider a regular basis--which might be frequently enough that the store folks recognize me when I walk in the door. So I'm kind of caught in a vicious circle here. I'll do what I can.
I am sure that your LHS will be more than happy to order thing for you, even if they have never seen you.
To CNE runner,your comments were not taken as a slam in any way.Ive found that as you say do your homework their are some pretty good buys on ebay.I also attend the train shows in my area,which are dwindling,Ive noticed at least to me attendince is down and sellers and even overall quality on items for sale,again the internet and ebay have made their mark but I really think the economy has an awfull lot to do with it.
Quote from: DWU on December 09, 2011, 10:15:21 AM
To CNE runner,your comments were not taken as a slam in any way.Ive found that as you say do your homework their are some pretty good buys on ebay.I also attend the train shows in my area,which are dwindling,Ive noticed at least to me attendince is down and sellers and even overall quality on items for sale,again the internet and ebay have made their mark but I really think the economy has an awfull lot to do with it.
I'm attending one tomorrow for the first time in years. I'm transportation-challenged, but this weekend there is a Greenberg show at the fairly new convention center in Lancaster, Pa. I'm taking the train from Philadelphia up and back. I've always found train shows to be a bit of a crap shoot--sometimes lots of stuff that I need/want or interests me, sometimes hardly anything at all. It will be interesting to see what this one is like. At least, I'll be having dinner with my dad before I return home tomorrow evening.
To Johnson bar Dinner with dad! Trains wll always be around,Dad wont,enjoy him while you can,learned this lesson the hard way!
Quote from: DWU on December 30, 2011, 10:33:38 AM
To Johnson bar Dinner with dad! Trains wll always be around,Dad wont,enjoy him while you can,learned this lesson the hard way!
Oh, I know. We lost Mother unexpectedly. Spent almost a week with the Old Man over Christmas. I expect I'll have him a while yet. Grandma lived to be 90. ;) :)