Hi All.
I have a Bachmann 2-10-4 Santa Fe loco that won't handle the Bachmann 22" EZ Track curves. Beautiful loco. Have installed Quantum Revolution A decoder at around $100 my cost. Is it me or do others have same problem keeping the loco on 22" curves?
Sorry to be blunt but why on earth would you expect a 2-10-4 to handle curves that are bordering on toy train curves?
It's a large locomotive and requires larger radii curves. 22 inch curves are good for first and second generation B-B diesels and steam locos up to 2-8-0s, 4-6-2s and perhaps 2-8-2s but definitely NOT anything larger. Not only is negotiating 22 inch curves troublesome for longer wheel based steam but they look stupid doing so.
Quote from: rogertra on November 27, 2011, 03:36:28 AM
Sorry to be blunt but why on earth would you expect a 2-10-4 to handle curves that are bordering on toy train curves?
It's a large locomotive and requires larger radii curves. 22 inch curves are good for first and second generation B-B diesels and steam locos up to 2-8-0s, 4-6-2s and perhaps 2-8-2s but definitely NOT anything larger. Not only is negotiating 22 inch curves troublesome for longer wheel bases steam but they look stupid doing so.
+1 think more like 28" MINIMUM radius.
The BAchmann 2-10-2 operates on 22 inch radius, but grudgingly. I agree, 22 r is really too small for such a large engine. It should run on 24 inch radius, but again I agree, 26 or 28 in radius would be better. One thing I have noticed over the past several years. Whatever the manufacturer says is the minimum radius add at least two inches to be safe.
Thanks to all. Completely agree that prototypical 2-10-4 shouldn't be on 22" curve. We all have to fudge sometimes. I have limited space and just wanted to see the loco run sometimes. Bachmann suggested 22" curves as minimum and this clearly is not possible so wanted to know if it was 'me' or does evryone have the same problem. Bachmann needs to suggest realistic track arrangements. Really wish I had a bigger layout. Have retired this loco to the display case. Thanks for all of your comments.
If I may offer a suggestion---
---starting here with the late Carl Arendt's site:
http://carendt.us/index.html
What I might suggest is a second layout, a shelf, perhaps a foot wide and maybe 6 or 8 feet long, wrapped around a corner if need be. Most people would think of this as a switching layout, and that's what I have in mind--but this could represent an engine terminal, with locomotives being moved in and out for service at water tanks, coaling towers and ash pits (coal burners), lubrication sheds, even onto and off a turntable at a widened end. One could even have a portion of a roundhouse (not the full house) with a detailed stall or two visible through the windows. Ha, who needs cars on such a layout?
Alternately, could you consider a "high line," a model railroad built on a skinny shelf near ceiling level, high enough to clear doors, windows, and heads? That could give you your larger radii and a place to run the monster (or monsters--one is never enough!), along with a decently long train. . .maybe a double-tracked line, and the other train could be a classic silver streamliner behind warbonnet F-units. . .
Hmm, who says you can only have one model railroad in a house?
Have fun. . .
Quote from: Sakda50 on November 29, 2011, 03:15:36 AM
Thanks to all. Completely agree that prototypical 2-10-4 shouldn't be on 22" curve. We all have to fudge sometimes. I have limited space and just wanted to see the loco run sometimes. Bachmann suggested 22" curves as minimum and this clearly is not possible so wanted to know if it was 'me' or does evryone have the same problem. Bachmann needs to suggest realistic track arrangements. Really wish I had a bigger layout. Have retired this loco to the display case. Thanks for all of your comments.
Before I retired the engine I suggest you contact Bachmann and explain your situation. As there catalogue states that this engine will run on 22" radius track. Your engine does not have enough slack in the axel length to allow it to run on 22" track.
Ask if you can trade the engine for one that does run on 22" track. Bachmann certainly could check the engine for you.
It makes no sense for you to have to shelve the engine. You could also trade that for another engine that will run on 22" track
my little engineer is getting a 4-8-8-4 from Santa and the ad says 22in curves so hopefully it will be ok cause thats the biggest I have at the moment...planning to expand to another room but thats after Christmas
Max,
In the case of an articulated engine you have a better chance of it negotiaing a 22 r curve than a rigid wheel based engine such as a 2-10-4.
Quote from: ebtbob on November 30, 2011, 07:53:53 AM
Max,
In the case of an articulated engine you have a better chance of it negotiaing a 22 r curve than a rigid wheel based engine such as a 2-10-4.
True Bob but it will still look stupid doing it, as all large engines do on 22 inch curves. Just because it can, doesn't mean it should. :)
Many years ago (1974) I had an AHM/Rivarossi Big Boy that really did go around 18" curves very reliably. I had a relatively large layout with 24" curves, but one of my friends had a little 4x8 with 18" and we just had to try it out. As long as there was enough clearance on the outside of the curve, it was able to pull a silly train that stretched all the way around the oval to just a couple of inches from the coupler of its caboose! Maybe 20-22 cars? The overhang was pretty ridiculous, though, and I'm pretty sure we couldn't run it on the inner loop if there was any equipment on the outer loop.
He preferred diesels to steam, so he had kitbashed a DDA40x Centential out of an Athearn DD35 and some GP40 shells. It looked almost as ridiculous as the 4-8-8-4.
Roger,
While I agree with you about the appearance, remember the way things look varies greatly from person to person, so what is stupid to you or me is not necessarily the same for everyone.
Also, from working in a train store, I have seen statements for experienced modelers, using words such as stupid, turn people away from our wonderful hobby. I find it much more helpful to show someone that with large engines on small railroads, overhang may create the need to have more distance between parallel tracks to avoid sideswiping thus eliminating some potential track that might be used otherwise. Conversation like that will create dialog with the newbie and help him or her immensely.
Quote from: florynow on December 02, 2011, 06:02:24 PM
Branch lines and short lines with small steam engines are so much better suited to the limited space of model railoads than trying to run Big Boys and such in cramped quarters. Small equipment and a small amount of it on-track makes the layout look bigger too.
But. It's an attitude that seems to get grown into over time. It took me a long time to disconnect from huge thundering mainline stuff and get into teakettle engines on weedgrown track.
I do have a 2-10-2, 4-8-2 and (4) 2-8-2's, but I only run them at the club on 36" min r. and use 4-4-0's and 4-6-0's mostly at home, along with a couple of 2-8-0's and 2-10-0's.
PF
I have been resisting commenting on this thread, but here goes.
If the locomotive will make the circuit without problems, then it comes down to appearance and preference. And as long as I have been in (and out) of model railroading, I have yet to meet two members of the hobby that totally agreed on this subject. Soooooo, why not just leave it up to the individual.
Respectfully,
Will
Quote from: florynow on December 02, 2011, 06:38:08 PM
Of course, Will, model railroading is fun, that's what The Magazine has said for 50 years or more now. But at some point most peoples' ideas and visions refine and some things that used to seem OK aren't any more.
If you want your railroad to look realistic, minimize the equipment count and size, and maximize curves and switch number. If you don't care, who else cares? Do whatever you like, it's your railroad. I do put my 2-10-2 on my home layout with less than one scale mile of track once in a while just to see it roll and to blow the whistle between its trips to the club where it pulls 30 car freights over the 6 scale mile mainline with 36" radius curves.
One other thing some one told me. If you look at large equipment running on sharp curves at eye level, you don't see the overhanging so much. I have one 22" curve and the 2-10-2 runs over it OK and at eye level it sort of looks OK. But the 4-4-0's and 4-6-0's look so much better there, to me at least.
PF
No problem. If that's what you want to do(take your larger locos to a club layout), fine. Not everyone has access to a club layout and not everyone has a large layout with 36" curves. But some may want to run a larger locomotive on what they have available to them. I, too, am fortunate enough to have several options.
But, I would be the last person to tell someone not do it, unless they will damage their equipment. And even then, it's their equipment and their money.
I've witnessed a guy deliberately crash an RC model plane, just to video the crash. I don't have that kind of money, but it was his plane and his money.
My 2-8-4 Berk handles the 22 radius no problem
Quote from: ebtbob on December 01, 2011, 08:26:43 AM
Roger,
While I agree with you about the appearance, remember the way things look varies greatly from person to person, so what is stupid to you or me is not necessarily the same for everyone.
Also, from working in a train store, I have seen statements for experienced modelers, using words such as stupid, turn people away from our wonderful hobby. I find it much more helpful to show someone that with large engines on small railroads, overhang may create the need to have more distance between parallel tracks to avoid sideswiping thus eliminating some potential track that might be used otherwise. Conversation like that will create dialog with the newbie and help him or her immensely.
Perhaps "stupid" was the wrong choice of words. It was the loco I was referring to of course, not the person running it.
I ran 2-10-2s and 4-8-2s on the old GER and ran them around 24" curves. However, those curves were hidden and lead to the hidden staging yard. The big steam only ran between the hidden staging and the first modelled yard at Granville Junction. There, the "big" steam came off and was replaced by 2-8-2s and 2-8-0s as I didn't want the larger steam to run through my 28" curve at the end of the peninsula as they would look odd (Better choice?) doing so. So it is possible, even in a limited way, to operate big steam on small curves and not have them look odd doing so. Even if in a rather limited way.
My apologies if my poor choice of words offended anyone.
I am fortunate that I now have space in the new 10ft x 30ft model railway room in the basement that my mainline curves can be a generous 40 to 50 plus inch minimum radii so my 2-10-2s and 4-8-2s will be able to run anywhere on the main and in full view all the time.
Quote from: florynow on December 02, 2011, 09:34:01 PM
I've been looking at real railroads and models for a long time and have a very focused view. But then ............. way back before I did .......... I'm not sure if I didn't have more fun when details didn't matter much.
PF
Bravo to you for having the courage to admit that in public. :)
My 4-8-2 runs on 20 and 22 no problem
Here it is entering a 22
Looks OK to me but that is me
(http://bandb3536.com/meo/farmtrain.jpg)
uncbob-
Looks great to me to. Nice scenery also.
Jerry
You guys have all been great. Really admire your work. I consider myself competent but often have days where I feel like amateur would be an improvement! I was an original member of the SBRHS Santa Fe 3751 resoration project and got started in this recently with the purchase of a BLI 3751. Blown away with the technology since I was a kid and got hooked. Really like the Bachmann products. Good runners always at a reasonable price. Plus up until 2010 I was working in Shanghai and Bachmann had the only retail outlets in China and doing well. Hats off. Back on topic: I have a 4x8 layout and I suppose it's about getting those few seconds of joy seeing the loco running on those few feet of track that don't bend it ridiculously out of shape that makes it worth it.
Quote from: Sakda50 on December 04, 2011, 03:16:11 AM
You guys have all been great. Really admire your work. I consider myself competent but often have days where I feel like amateur would be an improvement! I was an original member of the SBRHS Santa Fe 3751 resoration project and got started in this recently with the purchase of a BLI 3751. Blown away with the technology since I was a kid and got hooked. Really like the Bachmann products. Good runners always at a reasonable price. Plus up until 2010 I was working in Shanghai and Bachmann had the only retail outlets in China and doing well. Hats off. Back on topic: I have a 4x8 layout and I suppose it's about getting those few seconds of joy seeing the loco running on those few feet of track that don't bend it ridiculously out of shape that makes it worth it.
If you have a 4x8 layout how are you using 22 radius ?
Your rails must be right on the edge of the layout
Hi uncbob,
Trying to figure out how to upload images. I had two tracks on my 4x8. The outside main was with 22" curves and the inside local was a sort of dogbone twin reversing loop arrangement. Any advice on how to upload images?
Sakda50-
You need to use a photobucket account for pics. and youtube account for videos.
They are free to sign up for and easy to use.
Jerry
Sakda50,
You need a photo sharing account, like photobucket.com or flickr.com.
Once you have an account, and have uploaded your images into it, you can copy and paste the image links onto your post.
This is necessary to prevent overloading the memory on the forum.
Regards,
Jonathan
Quote from: Sakda50 on December 05, 2011, 04:59:00 AM
Hi uncbob,
Trying to figure out how to upload images. I had two tracks on my 4x8. The outside main was with 22" curves and the inside local was a sort of dogbone twin reversing loop arrangement. Any advice on how to upload images?
My original 4x8 had 2 tracks
A 20 and a 18
The 20 was near the edge of the platform
A 22 would have been right on the edge
You sure it was a 22 and not a 20
uncbob-
I have 22r on 4x8 with ( I'd have to go measure) about an inch and a half to spare both sides. Yes it is tight but there is room even for scenery.
Jerry
Jerry-
I think your spacing for the 22" curves is accutate. The 22"
is the centerline radius. If it's another 3/4" or so to the edge
of the roadbed there would be something over an inch left
on both sides.
-- D
To All,
Thanks again for your help. I was in Shanghai, China in 2008 when I started the project. The only track available was from the local Bachmann shop and put the layout together with 22" and 18" EZ Track. As mentioned from several posts the 22" curves did leave about an 1-1/2" to the edge of the layout and was quite OK considering the space. Only regret was that the EZ Track was quite noisy despite being laid out on a 1/2" styrofoam base. You guys have had some great posts and loved the "maybe was more fun when not so serious" [my paraphrase] comment. I can think of so many times knocking off thinking it didn't come like I was thinking only to get up the next morning and saying "that's not so bad!!' Great hobby.