Bachmann
I am begging you for some equipment from the 19th century. Primarly the 8-18c 4-4-0. It sadly doesn't look as if MMI will produce many of the engine. It would be most awesome if you could make this engine, and offer it in sound! Many people including my self would love to see this engine in production. I understand you already have the cute IF 4-4-0 and the horrid OF 4-4-0, but it wouldn't hurt to add one more 4-4-0 to the line of products already in use. If you're not willing to pass on the request for the 8-18c 4-4-0 how about the 8-18d 2-6-0 which could be converted in the 8-18c without much hassle.
Please Bachmann I beg you to make this engine, and I rather not be so immature about it as I was last time with 4-6-0, which I do not take credit for.
THanks
Rock On!
~Dusten
Dear Dusten,
I pass along every request.
We appreciate your interest and support.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Dusten
MMI a division of Precision Scale is modelling the 8-18c, Bachmann may not want to duplicate this model
Ken
GWN
All indications now are that MMI will NOT do the 8-18-C. They did not get enough reservations to justify the investment.
If this is the case, would Bachmann be able to sell sufficient to make it worthwhile for them? I suspect that Bachmann needs to sell more of a particular model to make a profit than does MMI They are quite different operations.
Hamish
Dusten, I think Hamish might be correct. If MMI cannot get enough intrest to produce a 8-18-C then why would Bachmann want to do this?
I wish Bach would consider making a 2-6-0 out of the IF 4-4-0 and make it with uneven driver spacing. That would give you a small mogul that was widely used all over the U.S.
Also don't overlook the 2-6-0, it backdates very well. Try a PSC wood C-16 cab or a Banta wood cab, shorten the smoke box and of course PSC flanged domes..makes a beautiful Cooke or even a D&RG class 45 1/2 mogul.
Royce
Sorry Royce, it may backdate well, but it's not my cup of tea. It doesn't look good to me. I need authentic equipment. The 8-18d 2-6-0 would be a good choice to make anyway, it can easily be made into the 8-18c 4-4-0. MMI is not getting enough interest due to the fact it cost so much, and it's not offered in sound. If MMI would make them, I would go ahead and buy two or three; but it doesn't look as if they're going to make it, and people are getting rather fed up with not knowing wheather or not if anyone is going to come out with one or not. It may be of great interest for Bachmann to go ahead and make it while people are willing to buy it. Like in music, when ever there are bands with the same name, it's the one who gets famous first who gets to keep the name. Competition is what we need anyway. MMI can announce all they want to, but in order to sell, they gotta make it!
Rock On!
~Dusten
Marketing and pricing are complex subjects - and I am no expert for any field, let only model railroads. However here goes - to make a profit broadly you can aim for low margins, i.e. keep prices down and hope to sell a lot, or aim for higher margins, have higher prices and need to sell less to make a profit. MMI seems to have been aiming at the latter, and it doesn't seem to have worked. Thus for Bachmann to make a success of it they would need to sell it at a lower price, and sell a LOT more. Can they be confident of doing so, given that they already market other 4-4-0s? (the Christmas village or other casual narrow gauge modeller may well be happy with the IF 4-4-0 even if it is a bit small for the modeller of mainstream 3 foot gauge railroads.) lI don't know the answer to that.
Of course this is a very incomplete analysis as the cost structures between the companies are probably quite different, and the quality of the final product is another factor among many. Bachmann and other manufacturers have to weigh all this up. What may seem a no-brainer to me or you may not be when a full analysis is done.
Hamish
Dusten, I don't know what you are modeling but the D&RG Baldwin Class 45 was sold to roads all over the U.S. just look at the B&O narrow gauge(BB&K) If you like mountain terrain then large boilers and small drivers is what you need. The mogul is cheap and easy to convert and sound and DCC can be added.
We tried in vain a couple years ago for the 8-18-C only to see the IF 4-4-0 made, so I my guess is that you will never see it. Do I want one..YES!. I have purchased a Fn3 8-18-C and love it and so far it is a display model. ::)
Bachmann is now a global market so I would start looking for more generic engines like the WW1 trench engines in 4-6-0 and the 2-6-0.
Royce
Well the 8-18c was one of those locomotives that was used around the world ;D
Rock On!
~Dusten
Yes it was Dusten and it is also the iconic symbol of American railroads, thats why its called, American.
Almost every American railroad either broad gauge or narrow gauge used the 4-4-0 wheel arangement,but don't discount the small IF 4-4-0 made by Bachmann because in the beginning narrow gauge railroads were built on a budget with light engines and flimsy bridges and I guess that what is so dear to most of us,maybe not so for the train crews.
Royce ;D
Indeed, but the one currently isn't an 8-18c which was made just for that sort of budget lol. I like the little cute IF 4-4-0 that's already being made, but that ugly duckling the OF I don't like.
Rock On!
~Dusten
Quote from: Dusten Barefoot on January 06, 2012, 11:04:42 AM
Well the 8-18c was one of those locomotives that was used around the world ;D
Rock On!
~Dusten
Dusten, unfortunately, based on the history of Bachmann On30 steam locos, I think being "used around the world" is a strike against being made by Bachmann... :(
while they are described as "catalogue engines", all the Bachamnn steam engines, outside of the Porter, are based on relatively esoteric prototypes...nothing necessarily wrong with that, I just wish when they were choosing products they'd choose the more common version of a wheel arrangement ;)
(flame away)
Why can't we have the engines in On30 that Bachmann produces in large scale(Fn3)?
1. a larger side rod diesel.
2. both the 4-4-0 and a 2-6-0.
3 a larger shay and Climax.
Most people that run large scale do it in their garage so the argument of making small engines that take dead man curves does not fit in this case.
I once knew a fella that had a O scale standard gauge switching layout that was fantastic and all of it was in a 3'x6' space and his motive power was a large O scale 0-8-0.
Bachmann has made some very fine engines and in my opinion they literally saved On3 so I do not mean this as a complaint.
Royce Wilson
Ok ya'll, nice discussion on the 4-4-0; but I really made this topic to gain support for the engine, not to debate wheather or not bachmann and MMI shouldn't do it.
Rock On!
~Dusten
Dusten, as you know I fully backup your request. It never understood why Bachmann ever released the OF 4-4-0 and the minute IF 4-4-0 particularly the the context of the abundance of which the 8-18c was deployed in the US and abroad.
Not only that the 8-18c was deployed by most of the narrow gauge common cariers. As trains grew longer and heavier after the 1890's, many 8-18c (as well as many other wheel arrangements of older construction dates) were bounced off and sold e.g. to logging roads. If you research the logging roads in the south (TX, LA, MS, AL) you will see that they only rarely deployed geared locomotives like Shays because the essentially flat land didn't require these specialised engines. Instead they rather bought old 4-4-0, 2-6-0, 2-6-2 and 2-8-0 ones and ran them until they literally felt apart.
An 8-18c can thus be used to model "old style" common carriers like the Colorado roads, any other common carrier in "flat" regions and even as 1930's logging engines.
Also I would have bought 2 - 3 8-18C's from MMI despite the high price and I believe that the high price is the main reason why so few pre-orders were received. Maybe the second reason being the "unserious" way how they produce: announce a modell without any garantuee that it will ever be produced and not giving any deadline or so. So you pre--order and than you wait for YEARS without knowing if the modell will ever be produced.
Even with the long lead times the Bachmann anouncements are delivered, the ARE delivered.
Richard
Checking MMI site, they announce the arrival of the 8-18C class for November 2011.
Ken Clark
GWN
Quote from: Ken Clark on January 09, 2012, 12:29:04 PM
Checking MMI site, they announce the arrival of the 8-18C class for November 2011.
Ken Clark
GWN
I hope no one is holding their breath!
Bill in FL