I have read in several message the statement that
"If you are using E-Z Track, you will find that the turnouts are power routing, i.e. that the track which the switch is not pointing to (either straight or diverging) will not receive power, thus causing the train to stop."
example here http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,15960.0.html
and here http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,16858.0.html
Yet the E-Z Track turnouts I have do not cut off the power from the spur line track its not pointing to.
So what's the go?
- I am currently just maually using the flick switch as I won't bother with the AC operation till I make the final layout.
Are they power routing/non-routing if under AC action, not manual?
My four turnouts came with the 'First railway pack' if that makes any difference which I doubt.
The n scale turnouts are indeed power routing.
Powering them, or not, does not make a difference.
Can you post a drawing of your track plan showing the location of both your turnouts and your terminal track(s)?
Quote from: James in FL on February 02, 2012, 09:22:51 PM
Can you post a drawing of your track plan showing the location of both your turnouts and your terminal track(s)?
yes here is the current layout of the tracks(s). Both are DC with seperate contollers.
All tracks remain live regardless of where the turnouts are switched..
well I would upload the image which is only 86kb, having just spent the best part of an hour drawing it, but it won't let me, says the upload folder is full.. contact admin..
Check your track to see if there is another track leading into it that might be feeding it.
If you take the cover plate off the bottom of the turnout, you will see a copper rocker switch that has contacts that shift when the switch is operated. When the switch actuating mechanism is moved to its limits, the rock should contact one pair or the other of contact plates.
If the frog (the X-shaped metal part that the wheels pass through) remains the same polarity all the time, it would create a short circuit when the switch is lined for the opposite route.
To visualize this, study hot the rails line up in the straight and diverging routes. The frog, which would be the left rail when lined one way, becomes the right rail when the switch is lined the other way.
As per Jaime's suggestion, do you have more than one terminal track? Could you be feeding power from both routes into the switch?
Les
Quote from: Desertdweller on February 02, 2012, 11:45:50 PM
Check your track to see if there is another track leading into it that might be feeding it.
No only one track, I have each one set up as a simple dead end siding.
Taking this further I removed a turnout, connected it to a rerailer/power section, put two engines on each of the Y (with a 5" section to hold the locos) engaged power and both loco's moved regardless of where the switch was pointing.
I did this with a second turnout with the same result. - these turnouts are definatly not power routing!
So the question is
a) has Bachmann changed the turnout wiring?
b) do I have some incorrectly wired units (4 of)?
c) is there a difference between N scale units and HO, as in people are refering to HO when then they talk about a power routing feature.
I would like to upload the pic's/ diagrams etc but it still won't accept anything I try. but I think I've made it fairly clear anyway.
Quote from: Desertdweller on February 02, 2012, 11:45:50 PM
If you take the cover plate off the bottom of the turnout, you will see a copper rocker switch that has contacts that shift when the switch is operated. When the switch actuating mechanism is moved to its limits, the rock should contact one pair or the other of contact plates.
This next to do..but since all four are behaving the same, its not going to be something faulty with all of them, unless its a wiring mistake.
EZ track turnouts have to be power routing, because they use powered frogs. What happens when a loco passes through the switch, following each route? Does it stall on the frog? Does it stall on the frog in one route only?
It is difficult for me to visualize how your problem can happen, if the frog is getting power. For example, let's say your turnout is a lefthand one. When the switch is lined for through movement, if you look at the track from the points end (the points are the parts of the rail that move), the frog will be part of the lefthand rail.
For the sake of example, let's say that the lefthand rail is getting positive current flow.
Now work the switch so it is lined for the diverging route, and look at the track. The frog will now be part of the righthand rail. Since the lefthand rail is a continuous (but curved) piece, it will still be getting positive current. But, if the frog were still getting positive current, then both rails of the divergent route would be positive polarity. If the track farther away from the switch was getting negative polarity somehow, a short circuit would happen when the switch was lined and the train would not move.
If both rails were getting power of the same polarity, the train would not move either.
If the frog were not getting power at all, the situation you describe could only happen if the stub track was getting its power from somewhere else.
And if the frog was getting no power at all, then locos would stall when passing through it.
The power routing mechanism could possibly be hanging up, feeding power only when the switch was lined in one direction. If so, it would allow locos to pass on one route. It is also possible (but not likely) that the rocker contact may be 180degrees out of synch with the switch mechanism. In the case, the frog would be powered, but opposite the required polarity. If that is happening, then the loco could not get through the switch either.
If there is no way power can get to your stub track, other than through your switch, there must be something seriously wrong with it indeed. I just can't imagine how, even with a defective switch, you could be having this problem. I know this is not helpful to you. Maybe someone else (Bachmann Customer Service?) can help you.
Les
Thanks for your detailed explination Desertdweller.
However we may be talking about two different things when we use the term power routing.
I don't have any non-working turnouts, all works as it should in regards the frog, trains move through fine etc, what I'm questoning is the 'statement/advise' that these turnouts are: "the turnouts are power routing, i.e. that the track which the switch is not pointing to (either straight or diverging) will not receive power, thus causing the train to stop."
This is not what I'm finding at all!..
The four turnouts I recieved in this kit (and the only ones I have in Bachmann E~Z track) 'DO' continue to provide power to the track they are not pointing to.
I'm not saying that's right or wrong, since different brands are wired differently, what I'm saying is it does not match the statements others have made about power routing as above.
So either my four switches are wired differently or the statement is wrong..
Can someone confirm that a N scale Bachmann #6 turnout is meant to 'NOT' supply power to the line its not pointing/switched to?
On the links provided in original post, that was the advise given, yet its not what I have found, so before I start rewiring/cutting my turnouts to get that effect I would like to confirm my turnouts are in fact incorrect. At this stage I feel the advise given may be incorrect.
Thanks
Rock,
Your EZ-track turnout is functioning in that its frog is changing polarity as the route is changed. If it wasn't doing that, then locos would not be able to go through it on both routes. At least we know that much.
When locos are set on both tracks leading from the turnout, and power is applied, do they both move in the same direction? I don't see how this could be possible, as it would require the frog to be both positive and negative at the same time. If the locos are moving in opposite directions, then you have a short circuit somewhere inside the switch, although I doubt if that would happen with all four turnouts (they would all have to share the same internal defect).
Regardless, you should be able to solve (or at least help) the situation by electrically isolating one or both tracks coming off your turnout. Do use use a Common Rail wiring system? This is a system where your tracks are divided into individually controlled sections. One rail is divided into independently controlled segments with rail gaps or insulated rail joiners. The other rail is left intact as a common return.
Cut a gap or insert an insulated rail joiner at a rail joint shortly beyond the switch. Now, you have cut off for sure power downstream of that gap. Solder a length of wire from both sides of that gap to an electrical switch. Opening or closing that electrical switch will feed or cut power to that segment of track.
I have an N-scale railroad that includes a large passenger station with double-ended platform tracks. I have EZ-track switches at each end of the tracks. Isolating the tracks this way allows me to keep trains parked on those tracks regardless of track switch position or polarity at either end. My electrical switches are Atlas Selectors, which allow me to link the controlled track to either of two control throttles.
I know I haven't solved your switch problem, but, hopefully, this suggestion will allow you to work around the problem.
Les
Quote from: Desertdweller on February 04, 2012, 02:08:59 PM
Rock,
When locos are set on both tracks leading from the turnout, and power is applied, do they both move in the same direction?
Yes.
.. and as far as I can see that is normal...for instance in a DCC setup where you use only one power block for all, you need to have power to all lines regardless of switch settings. having power routing turnouts which only provided power to one line would mean you
'had to install a common rail wiring system which would defeat the point of using E-Z for a lot of people - ie as a pull down put up train set.
Quote from: Desertdweller on February 04, 2012, 02:08:59 PM
Regardless, you should be able to solve (or at least help) the situation by electrically isolating one or both tracks coming off your turnout.
Cut a gap or insert an insulated rail joiner at a rail joint shortly beyond the switch. Now, you have cut off for sure power downstream of that gap. Solder a length of wire from both sides of that gap to an electrical switch. Opening or closing that electrical switch will feed or cut power to that segment of track.
Which is exactly what I am doing already for all my sidings.
Quote from: Desertdweller on February 04, 2012, 02:08:59 PM
I have an N-scale railroad that includes a large passenger station with double-ended platform tracks. I have EZ-track switches at each end of the tracks. Isolating the tracks this way allows me to keep trains parked on those tracks regardless of track switch position or polarity at either end. My electrical switches are Atlas Selectors, which allow me to link the controlled track to either of two control throttles.
I know I haven't solved your switch problem, but, hopefully, this suggestion will allow you to work around the problem.
Well I think you have perhaps without actualy saying it. You indicate from this comment that you have to isolate your E-Z track switchs (turnouts) so I take it that the EZ turnouts I have are correct and the statements made by others are in fact incorrect?
What I find strange is that in both those links the person being told the turnouts were power routing and cut power to the line not pointed at, didn't come back and say it didn't work that way. I almost posted there to say they were given wrong advise, but decided to start this thread instead to try and get to the bottom of it.
For instance if I do the layby siding setup as described here, http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,16858.0.html
both trains still move, so clearly the way the bachmann turnouts work is not as described by Albert in N in that thread.
They would be, using his decription actualy be "insulated frog turnouts"
Its a contradiction - someone has to be wrong, both can't be right unless we are talking about two different things.
Just a thought, do you have other turnouts connected to your spur track? Since EZ Track turnouts are power routing, any track connected to the turnout spur loses all power when the turnout is thrown closing it. If you build a "yard" onto your spur track, the entire "yard" goes dead when the spur track is closed. If that is the case, simply add a connector to the spur track and power it with another power pack in sinc with the mainline track (same polarity). That way you can switch your "yard" separately from operation of the main line. Note that this does not apply to a passing siding track arrangement, but only to dead end spur tracks. This is also true with Kato UniTrack.
Maybe Bachmann has changed something since I last bought EZ turnouts (about 3-4 years ago)?
Mr. Bachmann... if you're following this thread can you confirm Bachmann has now made available DCC friendly n scale turnouts?
Here's the literature that came packaged with mine;
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1610/img1900ft.jpg)
Quote from: Albert in N on February 04, 2012, 09:49:20 PM
Just a thought, do you have other turnouts connected to your spur track? Since EZ Track turnouts are power routing, any track connected to the turnout spur loses all power when the turnout is thrown closing it.
No, no other turnouts, plus I've tested, as mentioned a few posts above, by removing the turnouts from my track and connecting them to a single power srtip all by themselves. They provide power to both lines all the time.
Quote from: Albert in N on February 04, 2012, 09:49:20 PM
If you build a "yard" onto your spur track, the entire "yard" goes dead when the spur track is closed.
No it dosn't. This the point I'm making The statements/ experiance of others is not matching what is being sold now it would appear.
Quote from: James in FL on February 04, 2012, 11:26:43 PM
Maybe Bachmann has changed something since I last bought EZ turnouts (about 3-4 years ago)?
Yes that's what I'm thinking. It would make sense on a DCC system
Hi by the way Albert, hope you didn't mind me quoting you as a example of what has been said previously.
Quote from: James in FL on February 04, 2012, 11:26:43 PM
Mr. Bachmann... if you're following this thread can you confirm Bachmann has now made available DCC friendly n scale turnouts?
Second that from me..
Rock,
Just to be sure we are all on the same page here let me ask this.
Early on in the thread you make reference to #6 turnouts.
The old(?) turnouts are not numbered other than the wye, are you using left and right turnouts or are you using the #6 wye?(N44869)
Does the packaging you have state #6 left or #6 right?
The old(?) packaging does not have this.
Can you have a look underside the turnouts and confirm the numbers embossed to be N44861 and N44862, maybe if the turnouts are now DCC friendly Bachmann has changed the part numbers?
Looking at the products page, the #6 wye (old? N44869) states analog operation as well.
I also see new #4 turnouts N44863 left and N44864 right, but both also state analog operation.
I know, silly questions but we don't need any misinformation and we all wish to give good advice.
Like you, I am trying to figure it all out as I think all here are.
Thanks
This is developing into a pretty intreging mystery!
In the example of my station tracks, I isolated them so a loco could be controlled between the switches independently of how the switches were lined. For example, I can run the depot switcher into a platform track and turn the power off to that track with a Selector. That track will not receive power, regardless of track switch position.
Another benefit of doing this is, what if the EZ-track switches at both ends were lined for the platform track, but the yard ladders at each end were carrying opposite polarity? A short circuit would result if the track were not electrically isolated.
I have another situation in the same terminal where there is a long, stub end siding. It receives power via an EZ-track switch on the main line. A second EZ-track switch is located on this siding, leading to another stub-end siding. Using the power-routing feature, I can kill power to the second siding only using the second switch, or kill power to both sidings using the main line switch.
I am not "into" DCC control systems. But if a turnout has a powered frog, it has to be power-routing to prevent a short circuit. AC systems, although they rapidly reverse polarity constantly, are still subject to the physics of polarity and can short out. And if both rails are receiving the same polarity at the same time, the train isn't going to move.
Referring to James' post, I am unfamiliar with EZ-track turnouts other than the standard N-scale ones. Do your #6 turnouts have powered frogs? If they do not, then they may or may not be power-routing. If the frog is not powered, it most likely would not be metal. If the turnout did not have a powered frog, and was not power-routing, it would explain the situation you are describing. An example of an unpowered frog, non power-routing turnout would be an Atlas Snap-switch. The turnouts have plastic frogs, and send power to both routes regardless of how they are lined. They can do this because, without power going into the frog, there is no polarity problem when the frog goes "from being part of the right-hand rail to being part of the left-hand rail". The downside to these is that locos can stall out on the unpowered frog, and additional wiring is needed to isolate divergent routes beyond the switch.
Please keep us informed on your progress.
Les
James, thanks for the N switch diagram with instructions. The added terminal track to the top track of the crossover relates to what my thoughts were. Bachmann's instructions were pretty clear to me about power routing switches and agree with that I observed on my own prior layouts and current modest layout.
I love power routing switches (also called turnouts) since it eliminates the need for insulated rail joiners and extra wiring for most applications. If something else works better for you, go for it. Right now, I need to run my trains and have fun.
James
I only have the four EZ turnouts that came with the Bachmann 'N Scale First Railroad Track Pack' http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=3409
It only says;
'two remote turnouts - left'
'two remote turnouts - right'
no numbers are given, however as far as I can tell they are items #44861 & #44862 http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=220 & http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=221
I note the webpage says "All analog turnouts (non-DCC) require AC accessory power supply for operation"
The turnouts I have as you can see by looking at the webpage are NOT Wye. I mentioned the No#6 to avoid confusion with the No#4 units
Looking under the turnouts I see 'K110625' stamped on the alum plate on each one. On the actual plastic under all the patent No's I see 'N Turnout Right N4861-00B01" & 'N Turnout Left N4861-00B02" (which would seem to indicate they are indeed the #44861 & #44862 units)
I have a retail pkt #44862 turnout and a retail pkt#44864 #4 turnout plus another 4 turnouts of the current type in a second "First starter kit" (cheapest way to buy them with more track) about to be posted from the US, so I am fairly keen to see it they behave differently, however they won't get here for a couple of weeks. - I'm half tempted to go and buy a retail packet one now just to see, but at the $30+ the hobby shops charge here It'll just annoy me if I do.
What we need is either;
Bachmann to clear up why we seem to have two apparently identical turnouts different behaving differently: have they changed the wiring? or does the starter kit for some reason have ones with different wiring?
or someone with a #44861 or #44862 turnout to confirm those numbers are the same and they are still power routing as previously
Finally in relation to Dessertdweller's comment's..
Theres no plastic parts/frogs (if you look at the links to the turnouts above you can see) and when I remove the plate underneath I can't see much of the actual power transfer connections, they seem to be moulded into the unit itself. I'd have to destroy the turnout by removing the track from the EZ base to see what they have done. As far as I can tell the only moving part is the mechanisation for moving the actual switch points, but as stated I can't see clearly whats going on.
My 6 wheel shunters don't like crossing the turnouts at a slow speed and stall if they don't have enough carry through motion.
Our turnouts appear to be one and the same.
We are on the same page comparing apples to apples.
Thank you for confirming this.
The saga continues.
The question remains, why do our turnouts behave differently?
Here are a few pics of the internals.
These are both right hand (N4861), however, take note of the way they are wired differently from the factory.
This does not affect power routing but the points positions between the two are opposite. Note the position of the spring lever and the relation of the pinion gear to the rack on each.
What I see is an inconsistency in wiring, perhaps due to a production assembly method revision.
Either way, the turnouts function as they should and route power as expected.
You are going to have to remove a bottom plate off one of your turnouts and have a look see.
Something inside must be different between what you have and what I have.
Anybody have any pics to show anything that's different than what I have?
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6228/img1102nz.jpg)
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/3462/img1097gbl.jpg)
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1854/kamlmw.jpg)
One and same in name only it would appear though
Here's the picture of the ones I've got, as you can see they are quite different, not only is the switching electonics different, the cuts in the plastic with their copper leads/bus bars are also different..
In fact there's very little that yours and mine share under the cover. I see almost no common parts.
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8638/turmoutunder2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/turmoutunder2.jpg/)
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4458/turmouttop2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/turmouttop2.jpg/)
and another close up of the electrical selector switch
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/8748/turmoutundercloseup.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/turmoutundercloseup.jpg/)
Rock,
Wow! I wish mine looked that way inside! I can see all sorts of improvements! Bachmann apparently put attention to the weak points of the original design.
The most obvious change is the replacement of the sometimes troublesome rocker switch with a slide switch with its own printed circuit. But maybe even better is the fact that everything inside is screwed down: the pivot for the throw rod, the slide switch, the main printed circuit board, and the electrical connections to the rails.
On the earlier design, even the tightness of the screws holding the bottom cover plate on can have a major effect on the operation of the unit. Too much or too little tightness on the rocker contacts and it won't work.
And with the throw rod actuator just riding on a peg, it could get out of synch. I'm really blown away by this.
Les
The nut has been cracked.
Wow indeed! :o
However, this opens a whole other can of worms for the consumer.
If Mr. Bachmann would be so kind as to answer...
Is it safe to assume these turnouts were indeed manufactured to be all routes live or is this fluke and thereby a QC issue with the printed circuit?
When were the all routes live turnouts released?
Are these new turnouts exclusive to the "N scale First Railroad Track Pack" or are they available as separate single items?
Why would such a significant change have not been made a public announcement? The DCC users would have welcomed this information with open arms.
How will the consumer know which type turnouts they are purchasing without first physically opening the bottom?
Will Bachmann continue to manufacturer the power routing turnouts, or has production come to an end with these?
Inquiring minds want to know...help us out here Mr. B, would you please clear this up for us?
Thanks
yes indeed it does open a can of worms which only Mr B will be able to answer
DO we now have two types of turnouts? and how does one tell them apart when buying.
I too wonder if the ones I got in the Track Pack are meant to be the same/different to the retail skin packs.
Ironically the 'older'? power routing type are better for DC which is what I would have preferred and I have got the 'new'? live units.
However I will use them with a DCC setup when I get it setup, so its not that big an issue for me.
The wiring on the new turnout definitely is not for power routing. It looks more like the set up used in the HO version of the turnout. From what I can see, it looks like a design change to make them more friendly for the future DCC decoderized version of the turnouts. The (Non-DCC) notations on all the turnouts now would lead me to believe that there will be DCC controled versions coming in the near future. In DCC, you don't need power routing and it can actually be an annoyance.
I called my LHS today and spoke with a not so knowledgeable clerk. He stated the new turnouts are now packaged in yellow as opposed to the old blue packaging; however he "guessed" the item number was unchanged. I asked how long they had been out; his reply was "just recently".
Also said the 10in. straights were also in new yellow packaging as well.
A good excuse for me to check them out in person this upcoming weekend, and for a conversation with the owner for more information.
Dear All,
I will check this out with Mr. Riley when he returns from Nuremberg.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
I went to my LHS today and got to see for myself the new yellow packaged turnouts.
The owner let me open the blister pack and fondle the turnout.
She said this is at least the third revision of these turnouts and the external difference between the first two is the length of the point rails.
What I observed...
The part number is unchanged; the packaging now has yellow bordering instead of blue.
The packaging on the new yellow still states "not recommended for DCC".
They still have the same literature enclosed, which I posted, stating they are power routing.
The frog is not live but can be converted by moving one of the wires to join the other.
I did not buy the turnout so I have copied Rock pic.
To power the frog, connect the wires to the outbound most boss on top of the existing one
circled.
If you try this, please report back and let us know how the turnout behaves.
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9866/50531392.png)
Thanks, James!
Les
i have l/h and r/h switches, one routes the power one does not . they look quite different . i spoke to my hobby shop man and his answer was the one that switches is older stock , same part number a little bit confusing
Quote from: James in FL on February 10, 2012, 03:38:20 PM
To power the frog, connect the wires to the outbound most boss on top of the existing one
circled.
If you try this, please report back and let us know how the turnout behaves.
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9866/50531392.png)
Which I have done and yes joining the two wires together powers the frog, which changes polarity when the points are changed.
Works much better with the small shunters.
Getting back to the original subject of points being power routing or not, I just recently got a EZ Single Crossover Turnout - Right #44876, which came in a blue edged retail pack and it also is not power routing and remains live in all positions ( I also connected the frogs on it to make them live with the same setup as the new? turnouts.
This doesn't follow the yellow edge advise given and even says along one edge " This turnout is electronically gapped for DCC- friendly operation."
Talk about confusing..Bachmann should have make a much clearer and defined distinction between the old and new types.
As it stands there's no way of telling what one is getting when one orders a turnout if the numbers are the exact same..
Rock, thanks again for confirming what I assumed.
If the turnouts are out of the blister pack then a quick look at the underside would indicate which turnouts are which. The exposed red wires would tell you they can be converted to whichever way suits you, while no exposed wires would indicate strictly power routing type.
Ordering the turnouts, sight unseen, may pose a problem. A modification to the item number would be helpful here.
The back of the new blister pack has the verbiage and a diagram showing how to power the frog, however the literature enclosed may be confusing by stating the turnouts are power routing.
I do not use DCC.
Why Bachmann would include "not recommended for DCC" on the new turnout packaging is a mystery to me, seeing as the frog is unpowered and all routes are live from the factory.
It's a moot point with me anyway.
It would appear to me that when using these new turnouts in all routes live mode, on DC as a crossover, that they would require insulated joiners between them... no?
As far as the crossovers go...
I don't have any so I am unable to comment on whether or not these have been revised as well. Can anybody comment as to whether there is an old (power routing) version and a new (convertible) version? The version Rock has can be converted, have they always been that way?
This has been a good thread and lots of good information (facts) passed along here.
I've learned something and thanks to all participating.
Quote from: James in FL on February 13, 2012, 01:20:27 PM
So we now know that the new turnouts come from the factory as "all routes live" but can be converted to "power routing"
No - incorrect. I didn't say they switched the power to different lines (power routing), I said when you power the frog, the frog changes polarity as you select between the lines - as it would have to do to not cause a short. The lines remain live all the time.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Quote from: James in FL on February 13, 2012, 01:20:27 PM
Why Bachmann would include "not recommended for DCC" on the new turnout packaging is a mystery to me, seeing as the frog is unpowered and all routes are live from the factory.
Which is exactly what I have been wondering as well since always live turnouts are required for DCC if you are using the EZ track as - well as easy track, rather then permanent track with bus bars.
Quote from: James in FL on February 13, 2012, 01:20:27 PM
It would appear to me that when using these new turnouts in all routes live mode, on DC as a crossover, that they would require insulated joiners between them... no?
Yes. However that would not be possible with the crossover since the two switchers are joined, in which case one would have to cut one rail between them with a Dremel.
Quote from: James in FL on February 13, 2012, 01:20:27 PM
This has been a good thread and lots of good information (facts) passed along here.
I've learned something and thanks to all participating.
Yes and we seem to have turned the whole understanding of turnouts around in the process..
So what advise do we now give people who ask things like
"
Where should I position the terminal/re-railer track in relation to my turnouts to keep the trains from stopping and do I need more than one terminal/re-railer track?"
& "For a passing siding I assume that I need to have power independently going to the siding so the main line and siding need not be "hot" simultaneously"
Obviously the advise given previously will now be incorrect - its going to get more difficult to answer such questions as first the type/version of the turnout (with the exact same numbers) will have to worked out etc
Oh Mr B what have you done?
Perhaps you should have brought out two different numbered versions and even perhaps sold them alongside each other as DCC live turnout & DC power routing turnout.
QuotePosted by: Rockdweller Posted on: Today at 05:52:01 PM
Insert Quote
Quote from: James in FL on Today at 12:20:27 PM
No - incorrect. I didn't say they switched the power to different lines (power routing), I said when you power the frog, the frog changes polarity as you select between the lines - as it would have to do to not cause a short. The lines remain live all the time.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Thanks for setting the record straight yet again.
I have deleted this text from my previous post as it is inaccurate;
Quote
Looks like another trip to the LHS to re-read the enclosed literature. My hobby dollars are no longer even in my budget. I hate to buy a new turnout knowing that I will never use it. The use of the EZ track I still have left makes a test 8 nothing more. I have given the rest to a newbie just starting in the hobby at Christmas time.
It served me well for years, but I have found I have outgrown it.
James I don't think I'm setting any record straight, your understanding of the EZ turnouts is based on the 'old?' turnouts and in that regards you are 100% correct.
the problem - as we have now discovered lies with Bachmann themselves for changing the rules and not telling us the users.. I feel it was a mistake on their part to use the same part number, and not change it. They do so when they change a Locomotive to say DCC from analog as it would make a huge shenanigan for stock inventory's, why not for track parts as well?
As for my use of E~Z track. I have a ten year old who is not ready for a fixed layout and has not yet got the modeling skills needed to create his own parts etc, so the E~Z track is much better for him because of its much easier to setup and holds it shape better without being fastened to anything.. I will make him (read me) a fixed layout at some date in the future, but at 10yrs old its not urgent and in a year or so he will have a better idea of what he would like.
I do have some retail turnout packs coming and can photo them from both sides, so please don't feel the need to buy a new turnout. However at the current rate of travel of my January 24th order which still has not arrived, I don't know when I will see them as they are in my 7th Feb order.
update 15th Feb parts for the later order are here (priority mail by mistake) so pics will be coming..
Ok here's the crossover packet which is defiantly a DCC ready item and its 'Blue'
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1420/dscf0317b.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/dscf0317b.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
and here's the underside showing the same wires for live frogs as found on the turnouts
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1245/dscf0319a.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/dscf0319a.jpg/)
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Here's the new? turnout packets with the 'Yellow' showing both the 44862 (type #6) and 44864 (type #4)
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7716/dscf0320z.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/dscf0320z.jpg/)
and here is the back (both are identical on the back)
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/6567/backofturnoutpktcleaned.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/backofturnoutpktcleaned.jpg/)
and here is a close up of the instruction about making live frogs and using them live only on DC
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/92/closeupofturnoutbacksml.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/closeupofturnoutbacksml.jpg/)
So I'm still trying to work out what is signified by the Yellow- like why are the crossovers Blue, yet work the same as the "new" Yellow turnouts.
Anyway I think we have established the turnouts are not power routing anymore.
I don't think the crossovers were ever power routing. There really isn't a need for them to be. The only power they would route would be to the short segment of track that is the actual crossover and I believe that is issolated in the middle so that you may run different power supplies on either of the double track loops. That is at least the way the HO crossovers are made.
Thanks skipgear for the input,
Not having had any E~Z crossovers previously I can't comment. Are you suggesting that Bachmann has just upgraded the turnouts to match what the crossovers have always done?
That said - your comment "I believe that is isolated in the middle so that you may run different power supplies on either of the double track loops." doesn't make sense, as the crossover's I have here do not isolate one track from the other. ie both double track loops use the same power supply.
HO may be different?
Just been looking through the new catalog for 2012 and every single piece of n scale E-Z track is now on a Yellow edged card, whilst every piece of HO E~Z track is on a Blue edged card, so it would likely appear the colours are meant to highlight the different Scale rather then anything to do with DCC etc.
I also note that in addition to the existing two #6 turnouts under discussion in this thread -
"REMOTE TURNOUT - LEFT - Item No. 44861 & REMOTE TURNOUT - RIGHT - Item No. 44862 / Suggested price: $26.00 (1/card)"
there are two new #6 turnouts (left & right) that don't have pic's yet and are described just as
"#6 TURNOUT – LEFT - Item No. 44859 & #6 TURNOUT – RIGHT - Item No. 44860 / Suggested price: $52.00 (1/card)"
I wonder what these are?
I have been setting up my layout and not being electrically smart but learning as I move along,I. have also found I have two left hand turnouts (part numbers 44861) where the older blue packaged one is definitely power routing and the new one in yellow packaging is not,even though the small instruction sheet inside the package states it is. I recently ordered another hoping to use it to be able to store locos on track with the power routing feature but received the newer version which is live either way the switch is directed. Very confusing indeed and one has to wonder why Bachmann has yet to reply to this issue.
Can the NEW yellow packaged turnout that are always live be converted to power routing? Maybe disconnect the red wire that is also used to power the frog if needed? Any help would be great as all my turnouts are set and secured .
I have both power routing and non power routing turnouts. The difference is what holds the points together. The power routing have a metal bar to hold the points and the non power routing have a plastic bar holding the points together. This is a change that Bachmann made several years ago.
How much longer is that guy going to be in Nuremburg? I thought he'd be back by now. Seems odd there's still no response from the "makers".