I bought a mogul. It is a very nice engine, I am generally very pleased with it, and I'm going to talk about its positive points elsewhere.
But ....... I have to say ... compared to the regular Bachmann Soundtraxx sound (already abbreviated from the regular aftermarket Tsunami systems ) ...... "Sound Value" sound has been cut back too much in my opinion.
I've run other sound equipped Bachmann engines for a good while now and been very pleased. But, comparatively, the mogul lacks:
1. Dynamo sound. Without that, headlight operation seems odd.
2. Brake Squeal. It just sounds right on the other engines. Lack of it is very peculiar.
3. Coupler crash. Just very essential on a switching operation.
4. Function 6 - tender water fill. I don't use this much but it can stand in for injector overflow. Another nice sound not available.
I miss these sounds. Is a lot of production money being saved by these sounds not being present? I'd find that hard to believe.
PF
This locomotive is available in a "DCC Ready" version with an NMRA compliant socket. Those out there Who prefer a full Tsunami decoder with more features can purchase the "DCC Ready" of this loco and easily install one. There is a reason that these locomotives cost less and an option has been provided for those wanting more features.
Different strokes for different folks.
The real issue is people not doing their homework and making assumptions. I am seeing this quite often about DCC, including sound in the forums I belong to. Some jump right in and do very little research.
From what I see in the different ads, the specs are given for the loco most of the time.
I have some steamers with the Tsunami I installed.
I knew right from the beginning my Spectrum with on board sound did not have all the same specs.
All the documents are readily available.
When Bowser came out with on board Tsunami I emailed Bowser and was told, the decoder is the same as the ones I buy directly. Same specs.
Rich
I am VERY satisfied with my 2-6-0's and the price! I get very disatisfied with the constant carping that goes on at times. It is what it is. If one does'nt like it don't buy it! Paul >:(
Many are not aware of how many products Bachmann sells in the USA and overseas which includes a lot of stuff not used in the USA.
I posted a link a week or so ago. Go look for it.
There is a lot more than just HO non-sound/sound locos.
A company cannot afford to stagnate today. They have to change and change does not please everyone. The world and the hobby is continually evolving.
Rich
Don't need those extra sounds as I just have mine starting and going round and round
Exhaust whistle and headlight and standing at rest sounds are all I need
Like the lower price
The Spectrum line is not changing or going away.
"1. Dynamo sound. Without that, headlight operation seems odd.
2. Brake Squeal. It just sounds right on the other engines. Lack of it is very peculiar.
3. Coupler crash. Just very essential on a switching operation.
4. Function 6 - tender water fill. I don't use this much but it can stand in for injector overflow. Another nice sound not available."
All of these I can live without, also I hate the sound of the drive rod "clank" sound, it doesn't appeal to me
it's sound "value" it what you can get for a smaller price, what you're asking might increase the price more, and for sounds that really don't matter to me and for others.
Right now I would love to have DCC and sound for all of my locomotives, especially my brass, but the way the job market for a 23 year old is, I take what I can get. Most of my track was donated to me or a lucky buy I've never spent more than $200 on nickel silver track total all together and I have well over 400 feet and surplus and I am very fortunate to have such luck. All in all I miss MDC locomotive kits and the articles in model railroader that taught you how to make things in miniature from everyday objects, now model railroader seems like a girl's cosmopolitan(did I spell it right?) magazine filled with diesels and lack of creativity YUCK
I'd be grateful to have chuff and whistle in all my locomotives, everything else is just extra to me
Quote from: ryeguyisme on February 28, 2012, 01:44:08 PM
"1. Dynamo sound. Without that, headlight operation seems odd.
2. Brake Squeal. It just sounds right on the other engines. Lack of it is very peculiar.
3. Coupler crash. Just very essential on a switching operation.
4. Function 6 - tender water fill. I don't use this much but it can stand in for injector overflow. Another nice sound not available."
1) Dynamo. Agree.
2) Brake squeal. Agree.
3) Coupler crash. It's an unneeded gimmick. Why do I need to push another button just to get some sound that does nothing. If it was automatic? Might change my mind.
4) Tender filling. Undecided on this one.
5) Rod clank. Yes, of course, as it's an essential sound effect on steam locos.
6. Bell. A must have, how can you correctly operate a locomotive without a bell?
7. Whistle. A Must have. See 6 above.
8. Chuff. see above.
9. Fireman shovelling coal. Gimmick
10. Station announcements. Gimmick.
Can't think of anymore.
Angry passengers cause the train was late? ::)
It sure does get ridiculous don't it...........I got a loco that you can even hear the engine compartment door open and close! But who doesn't appreciate the sound of the engineer opening his thremos of coffee and pouring it to drink a little coffee. I even got a pullman hollering what the next stop is. I can't remember what function buttons to push, only like was said in previous posts, the horn/whistle, and the bell are the ones most important to me, 1&2. But on other functions, not on sound decoders, but the mars and ditch lights on the motor decoders, but now I got them to work on auto for whatever period of time I choose. Some of the whistle sounds I've heard are terrible and can do without. Sometimes I like to silence everything and just like to watch and listen to the wheels on the tracks. Another reason I like Digitrax sound decoders, if I don't like a particular default sound I can change it by downloading the sounds from their download page and choose what I want with Digitrax PR3, I can erase a default complete engine sound and download a different one. Not only that I can mix and match sounds. Not only that, I've been told I can go to a train yard, and digitally download any sound I want and load them in my puter, upoad them and then download them to the loco using the PR3 program. Jim
I'm quite satisfied with the sound and the price of these locomotives. It would be nice if it had a steam release but I would'nt be willing to pay more than twenty five dollars or so to get that added. I am hopeful that a new release of the 2-8-0 (hopefuly in Southern black) with Sound Value And, perhaps, the 4-6-0 as well will be forthcoming in the future. The low price has made it possible for me to buy three of these loco's, two with sound. I am happy that Bachmann has chosen to provide an affordable alternative for those of us who can't afford to buy the higher priced full featured sound units. Keep the faith Bachmann, I can hardly wait.
Paul
I applaud Bachmann for this move
Prices were getting ridiculous for the average modeler
I know from other sites there are those that buy 3 EM1s etc but for the average RR modeler the new Sound Values are great
Quote from: beampaul7 on February 28, 2012, 10:22:21 PM
I'm quite satisfied with the sound and the price of these locomotives. It would be nice if it had a steam release but I would'nt be willing to pay more than twenty five dollars or so to get that added. I am hopeful that a new release of the 2-8-0 (hopefuly in Southern black) with Sound Value And, perhaps, the 4-6-0 as well will be forthcoming in the future. The low price has made it possible for me to buy three of these loco's, two with sound. I am happy that Bachmann has chosen to provide an affordable alternative for those of us who can't afford to buy the higher priced full featured sound units. Keep the faith Bachmann, I can hardly wait.
Paul
The Sound Value steam locos do feature steam release.
Thanks for the heads up Yardmaster, my electronic ears don't pick up these things
Paul :-[
Quote from: beampaul7 on February 28, 2012, 10:22:21 PM
I'm quite satisfied with the sound and the price of these locomotives. It would be nice if it had a steam release but I would'nt be willing to pay more than twenty five dollars or so to get that added. I am hopeful that a new release of the 2-8-0 (hopefuly in Southern black) with Sound Value And, perhaps, the 4-6-0 as well will be forthcoming in the future. The low price has made it possible for me to buy three of these loco's, two with sound. I am happy that Bachmann has chosen to provide an affordable alternative for those of us who can't afford to buy the higher priced full featured sound units. Keep the faith Bachmann, I can hardly wait.
Paul The 2-6-0 Mogul has the steam release...at least mine does.
The new 2-6-0 DCC ready does not have the speakers installed. It does however have the tender ready for sound with the holes in the floor of the tender. It is very easy to install the speaker in the tender as is the decoder.
Quote from: Pacific Northern on March 05, 2012, 01:55:26 PM
The new 2-6-0 DCC ready does not have the speakers installed. It does however have the tender ready for sound with the holes in the floor of the tender. It is very easy to install the speaker in the tender as is the decoder.
Anyone reading this message, copy this message to your PC in a Word document and/or save the page to your PC as a HTML document. Also, save this page link to your Browser. This speaker thing for the 2-6-0 has been posted at least in the recent past.
Rich
Quote from: florynow on March 03, 2012, 10:43:41 PM
Coupler crash ...... a must-have for switching. How many of you guys actually switch? If you do, you'd think, gotta have it. And another switching sound no one has ever thought of, that I really want .... air hose "pop". You used to hear it every day in yards. Would be great .... a lot better one to have than the water-fill sound.
Mr. Bach Man ...... the DCC-only no-sound mogul, that you can plug the Tsunami in yourself to get sound ............ does it come with a speaker already installed? Or do we have to put the speaker in ourselves.
PF
I ran my Great Eastern Railway to a timetable and used CC&WB for freight car forwarding and except for bridge traffic, every single freight car that originated or terminated on the GER was switched at least twice in every single operating evening.
The LAST thing I and my operators needed was yet another button to push just to simulate coupler crash. Try doing that 20 or 30 time and even more times if you are a yardmaster switching some 90 plus freight cars in a three hour operating session and see how boring/annoying that quickly becomes.
The only sounds we found that were a must? We found that chuff on steam and prime mover effects on diesels and bells and whistle or horns as appropriate were more that adequate as we used the correct signals and bell as required and then with the volume turned down so that the audio was barely audible from four feet away.
Of course, YMMV
The CSX/NS lines are about a mile and a half from my house
I can hear the engines the horns and the cars real well
PF
I am sorry but I have to do it again. YOU are starting to get boring with your whining.
IF you don't like it shut up and change it. Quit ruining it for the rest of us that are content with the sounds it come's with. We all did not have the thrills of working on these engines as you say you have.
If you can not help anybody on here go find another forum to cry on.
Like I said I am sorry, but it is annoying
Jerry
P.S.
My apologies to the Bachmann,Yardmaster and Administrator for my reply.
BPaul, Jerry and PaulF-
It seems to me that everyone on this board has the right to express him/herself whether that's to crow about how much they like a product or how disappointed s/he is in it. And I'm unaware of any requirement that we all have to agree. So let's not ruin it for everyone else by carping endlessly or attacking one another.
It seems to me that Jerry's suggestion that Paul F stop his "boring" "whining" and thereby not ruin it for others might be an equally apt suggestion to Jerry himself! You don't have to read Paul F's posts or respond to them. Why not let him express himself. If he's all wet or out of sync with everyone else, which I doubt, you only draw attention to his posts by getting worked up about them. BPaul, I guess I must be your "virtually" because Paul F has never insulted me. And I'm pretty sure I'm not a population of one. Paul F, please understand that sometimes it's more eloquent and convincing to clearly state your position once and then let it stand without trying to defend it.
Let's face it' We all have different ideas and interests. Some of us believe that steam engines are the only real engines; others think they are antiquated and no match for a modern 12-wheel diesel. Some of us want to cope with switching problems in out model railroading, others want to operate by T+T like the big railroads, still others are content to just watch their trains run around in circles (okay, ovals, but you get my point). Some folks like to see gleaming passenger streamliners, other folks prefer funky, decrepit narrow gauge trains. The point is, we are all to different and we need to respect those differences and others' rights to express their interests and opinions.
I am purposefully avoiding singling any of you out because I don't want to do what you've been doing. Let's try to be a little more patient, understanding and supportive of one another. That will make this board a much better resource for all of us. Bickering won't.
-- D
Quote from: florynow on March 10, 2012, 07:51:30 PM
Why nearly inaudilbe at 4', Roger? That's way too soft to be realistic to my ear. I might live with that if a day sleeper lived in the apartment next door. But one does not. So I myself turn my engine sounds up, at least the whistle, which in real life could be heard a good bit further away than 360'. Because, 4' is not quite 360 scale feet away. I do believe that you can hear an engine that close very well.
And I still vote for coupler crash. If you don't like it, don't use it. Don't decide for others that they don't need it just because you don't.
I've never heard of brakes that don't squeal, and steam engine headlights that don't run on turbogenerators. I miss the sounds, but others apparently don't. The end.
PF
Flory
Four feet because there are four people running four or more sound equipped locomotives on a model railroad in a 12 x 16 foot room. All you need to hear is your locomotive, not someone else's 12 feet away.
The reason I don't think coupler crash is worth it, for me, is that it's yet another button to push that adds nothing to the operation of the railway. Besides, when I used to switch using say 110 ton RS-2, and I coupled up to another locomotive, steam or diesel, freight car or passenger car, from the cab of my diesel I rarely heard the coupler pin drop, let alone the couplers "crash". If I heard the couplers "crash" then I was going to fast when I coupled up. However, I should not be going too fast because you come to a complete STOP 10 feet before coupling and then inch back. If I hit too hard then the man on the ground screwed up his signals to me and failed to signal me to stop or I wasn't paying attention. Really bad in both cases as that's how you kill people.
You stop 10 feet from the joint for two main reasons: -
1) Safety. Don't want to crush anyone.
2) So that the man on the ground can make sure the coupler knuckles are open and aligned so you can make the joint. Real couplers are not self centring like the ones on our toys.
IIRC, in other posts, you said that you volunteer at a steam railway, then you should know all about crashing couplers and items (1) and (2) above as they are all basic safety rules that you learn in the first few days on the job.
The only time couplers crash is when you kick cars and they roll down the yard at around 4 MPH and "crash" into each other or when cars are humped and roll into the bowl tracks on top of standing cars. That's when you hear the "crash". Definitely not when you couple up the loco or couple cars onto a train. Mind you, if you couple a cut of cars to another cut of cars there may be sound as the cars bounce back and forward after the joint is made. But, that sound doesn't come from the locomotive, that comes from the cars. As I've written before, so that's why I don't see the need, for me, for the coupler "crash".
As for squealing brakes and turbogenerators you have a point but as I have the sound turned down, you really lose the effect, unless you want the sound cranked and bring down the wrath of the other operators in the room. :)
Besides, brakes on diesels usually only squeal when you apply them too hard but honestly, it's been 40 years since I ran a diesel or steam locomotive and can't really recall them squealing. What I do recall is flange squeal and grinding sounds going through switches and around tight curves as well as the groaning of the ties under the weight of locomotive. However, that's not brake squeal.
You've emphasised your priorities and I have explained and expressed mine.
However, as always, YMMV.
Doneldon
I have to disagree with you, as Paul's comment's could affect someone's opinion on purchasing one of these great loco's with the "sound value " option. I personally am very fond of my S4 and would highly recommend these "sound value" loco's to anyone wanting one.
Let's say I was a newbie and was contemplating on buying a new "sound value" loco and did a search on this subject. If I read this being a newbie I would have second thoughts on purchasing one. Wow it does not have coupler crash or air hose pop off maybe I should look at other brands that might have this feature. Not realizing that when they find this feature they will be paying more for it.
Yardmaster even quoted that there is a DCC ready version to add what you like.
QuoteIt seems to me that Jerry's suggestion that Paul F stop his "boring" "whining" and thereby not ruin it for others might be an equally apt suggestion to Jerry himself! You don't have to read Paul F's posts or respond to them.
I read just about every post here and find valuable information. I like Paul's steam knowledge and find them interesting as he does have a good understanding about the steam era. That is why I do read his posts.
QuoteWhy nearly inaudilbe at 4', Roger? That's way too soft to be realistic to my ear. I might live with that if a day sleeper lived in the apartment next door. But one does not. So I myself turn my engine sounds up, at least the whistle, which in real life could be heard a good bit further away than 360'. Because, 4' is not quite 360 scale feet away. I do believe that you can hear an engine that close very well.
And I still vote for coupler crash. If you don't like it, don't use it. Don't decide for others that they don't need it just because you don't.
I've never heard of brakes that don't squeal, and steam engine headlights that don't run on turbogenerators. I miss the sounds, but others apparently don't. The end.
Doneldon this is just one quote by Paul do you agree with this? I hope not.
Jerry
Quote from: Jerrys HO on March 11, 2012, 03:46:39 AM
Doneldon this is just one quote by Paul do you agree with this? I hope not.
Jerry
Jerry-
It doesn't matter if I agree, which is precisely my point. We need to
respect one another's opinions, practices and preferences.
-- D
Quote from: florynow on March 11, 2012, 01:28:55 PM
Besides simulating bad coupling work often found on shortlines, what I use the coupler crash mostly for, roger, is to simulate taking out of slack........... a sound that is not known by younger railroaders.
OK, that makes sense. :-)
Quote from: florynow on March 11, 2012, 01:28:55 PM
Being the old head that you appear to be, it seems like you would appreciate that. I've gotten used to doing that and I miss that option when it is not there. I'm not bored by the sound and wish it was there.
Old more than anything. :-) But now I see where you're coming from.
Just for a different viewpoint, I'm half deaf at 23, which makes me an Audiophile of sorts. The sound value is going to be really good for the bargain shopper like me it has everything I like, I couldn't ask for more, if it was too quiet I don't like the thought of following the engine with my ear pressed to the tender :o
slack unknown to modern railroaders? are you kidding?
slack was and still is a major problem for the real railroads. every time a train tops a hill, the slack runs in and kicks you in the ....... then when you hit the bottom and start up the next hill it runs out and causes your speed to drop. on the former pennsy main, helpers are often used to keepp the slack bunched up in the train, to avoid breaking a coupler knuckles going over the many hills on the line.
how much slack is in a train? when we were putting our train together at shelocta, the train would be moving about 5mph before the last car started moving. from my personal observations, there is about 1/2 carlength of slack in a 100 car train.
just because diesels can start a train without taking slack first, doesn't mean we don't still have to deal with it.
The problem with this thread is that apples are being compared to oranges. Sound Value locos are a less expensive alternative to Spectrum sound locos that have the features that are not present in the sound value products. A DCC Ready version is available for those who want those features and it is quite easy to install the full Tsunami and speaker. This discussion is basically an exercise in unnecessary rhetoric.
Now that was a clear concise logical answer
I wanted to sat obvious but then it should have been
Yard master, my Dad was born in 1901 and used to say that some people would kick if you hung them with a new rope. :D ;) :o ::) lol
Yardmaster
I was surprised that after your last comments that this thread was not locked.
You certainly explained this is a lower-cost unit and that there is a unit that does not have the sound unit installed allowing the user to install what ever type of sound decoder they want.
There is nothing more anyone can do.
Good idea. Case closed!