Bachmann Online Forum

All,

I have a question for the assembled multitudes who model such things as diesels in HO.
I have an old but rather well painted and detailed Model Power Baldwin Shark nose A-B set up. Sadly these are dummies and at least 30 years old. Now I find that all you can purchase are dummies and I would like to power what I have.
Question being. Does anyone know if a Bachmann Fairbanks Morse H16-44 or similar power chassis might work on these? I need the FM or Alco style trucks for this. I could butcher up an Athearn loco of some sort but prefer to go with Bachmann if possible. Any thoughts?
Simple measurements from the trucks center to center should do it.

Cheers,
Rich R

Rich

I think an Alco FA /B chassis should fit.
I will be at the shop tomorrow and will do some comparisons.

Tim
Souderton, Pa

Hi Tim,

That's one I hadn't given much thought to.  I'm looking for a dependable drive rather than something DCC ready and all that. From what I've heard the model power drives leave a lot to be desired.
But let me know whatever you find out. The center to center on the Baldwin I have is right on at four inches.  Center of front leaf spring to center of rear leaf spring.
This is what I hate about not being close ot a local hobby shop. Nearest to me is over an hour each way.

Thanks for any info you might provide me.

Cheers,
Rich R

E-R Models makes (or made) a very good running Sharknose. There is a bunch available on Ebay right now.

msowsun,

E-R models?  I'll have to go take a run through Ebay and see what those are.

Thanks for the head's up on that however.

Cheers,
Rich R

Dear All,
The ER Sharks are N Scale, but be patient for  couple of months...
I didn't say Anything!
the Bach-man

http://cgi.ebay.com/NIB-HO-ER-Models-4106-2-RF-16-SHARKNOSE-PRR-2000_W0QQitemZ6066787675QQihZ009QQcategoryZ19138QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
doesn't look N scale to me?

Quote from: theBachman on February 02, 2007, 10:20:11 PM
Dear All,
The ER Sharks are N Scale, but be patient for  couple of months...
I didn't say Anything!
the Bach-man

Ahh, another surprise!

E-R Models Sharks are HO scale. They share the same drive as the E-R Models FP-7. They have Roco trucks, A very nice can motor and come with a DCC ready plug.

I think Roco built the Model Power Sharks and E-R Models used the Roco design in their Sharks. They just  upgraded the motor and added a DCC ready circuit board. 

http://www.tcsdcc.com/decoderpics/erm.html
(http://www.tcsdcc.com/images/ERm_1.gif)

(http://www.tcsdcc.com/images/ERm_2.gif)

Quote from: msowsun on February 03, 2007, 09:17:59 AM
E-R Models Sharks are HO scale. They share the same drive as the E-R Models FP-7. They have Roco trucks, a very nice can motor, and come with a DCC ready plug.

I think Roco built the Model Power Sharks and E-R Models used the Roco design in their Sharks. They just  upgraded the motor and added a DCC ready circuit board. 

http://www.tcsdcc.com/decoderpics/erm.html
(http://www.tcsdcc.com/images/ERm_1.gif)

(http://www.tcsdcc.com/images/ERm_2.gif)

Msowsun,

The E-R sharks are/were available in both HO and N scale. I checked and  was surprised to learn that myself.  Thanks for the information and a place to look as well.

Bach man.
Oh great! Now that I've finally started to be rid of all my old HO gear other than a few pieces that were gifts, you have to bring out one of the few things that I really liked about that scale.
Guess I'll have to learn to live with that. 
Not that you said anything about producing a Baldwin shark of course. :-)

Thanks,
Rich R

Rich

Tim here

I checked the wheelbase on some alco Fa's, and I'm sorry to say
the wheel base is 1/4" shorter than the 4" you told me.

Back to square one.

Tim
Souderton, Pa

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your time and efforts on my behalf. Really do appreciate it.
So if the FA/FB won’t work I wonder what the wheel base on an Athearn F unit is? The newer ones with the plastic side frames? I could always switch out those for some Alco ones …… if the wheelbase is correct.
Question now is, who has an Athearn F unit or  possibly a Bachmann F they would be willing to measure?   ???

Cheers,
Rich R

ooooo!!!!!!!!   some new bachmann baldwins??!!!  i wouldnt mind that a bit!!!!     err...i mean....what baldwins??  where? who??     ;)

Do what i did.....I made a bachmann plus F chassis into a powered boxcar (trimmed leafsprings and brake actuators off the trucks and flat black them...then shove it into a boxcar shell...yea boxcar with a fuel tank i know) to push the MPower Santa Fe(dummy....loads of them on ebay...) Sharknose around.....Lights on the Dummy work of course so all i have to do is dcc the powered boxcar 8o)......Seems everyone on ebay has boxes of those old MP dummy sharknoses.....they must have found a lost ship from china or japan full of dummy locos....

The reason those MP sharknoses are so plentiful, MP sold their old stock off at bargain basement prices....$2 each for the a and b units [on their website]. I got a few to use as yard dummies, I've been seeing them coming up for sale on EBAY for as much as $20 each.....AND SELLING!!!!!  good deal for some people I guess.
     I make it a point to check MP and other train manufacturers websites for just such deals, right now they're {MP} selling BUDD coaches for $3 each and a set of old time coaches for $9....those too are on EBAY right now, go check them out you might find a deal on something.

                    JM

Yea i saw thier sales last week or so but did not know if it was cool to mention them(MP) on Bachmanns forum due to legal issues over the EZ track ect.

Jim

Hi James,

While I could almost live with that idea I’ve already stuffed an old GP-35 power unit
into the Baldwin B unit. It fits …..sort of. But it looks like a bucket of smashed crabs! :o
I’ll keep trying to find something close to what is required and I’m not afraid to change the trucks out for the proper ones either. I’d be happier simply changing the side frames but ……. There is a solution I’m certain if I just keep looking. I could make my own frame if need be. Time will tell.
Thanks for all the help everyone. Any measurements on an EMD “F” unit? Leaf springs center to center?

Cheers,
Rich

Bachmann F unit chassis(a and b) center to center is 4 and 3/32nds
Athearn chassis is 4 and 1/32nd
MP shark chassis runs around 3 and 29/32nds (the frames move fore and aft a bit in this chassis so it may varry)

I took these measurments with a steel 32nd rule with the chassis on straight track.

Jim

I tried the Athearn plastic truck flywheeled F unit frame and it will work but you will need to chop off the front of the frame or mill it down in thickness where the Shark shell tapers and has the shoulder inside on the nose.

I was going to do this and then glue the sideframes from the shark to the athearn chassis BUT the wheelbase (axle spacing) is way off on the f unit trucks,from under the shark truck the f unit wheelset(too close together) would be set in each way from the trucks bearing molds >:(

Sorry this is all returning to me as i slept and forgot it all.... ???

Thats why i just powered a boxcar....and the Bachmann f unit chassis slid into the Bachmann boxcar shell just perfect after trimming a few vertical stiffining ribs away and the coupler pockets finnish perfect to the shell ends....all i needed was a few strips of 1/16th inch thick balsa glued to the frame top to raise the boxcar shell to the right height.

I can get you pics if needed .

It was also great fun to see my 5 year old sons confusion when dad removed the Loco and let the boxcar pull the cars....boy did he get quiet and puzzled for a sec.... :'(

Hi Jim,

I’m aware of the issues with the frame and the wheel bearing spacing. I was planning on using Athearn side frames from an ALCO if possible and just toss the ROCO ones.
But from what you say it would seem that powering the “B” unit would be a no brainer then? Meaning no milling involved as with the “A” unit.
You’ve given me some good ideas and I’ll work on those and see what happens.
Thanks for all your help. I’ll let everyone know what happens and possibly post some pictures.
As for the powered boxcar, doesn’t someone on the board use something like that as their sig file?  ;D

Cheers,
Rich R

Powering the b unit should be easy....other than the chassis mounting fashioned into its shell its just a empty boxcar 8o)...if you need Bachmann F chassis (A or B) measurments let me know...

Odd,

I removed the trucks (powered) from an old Athearn Century diesel and tried to replace the EMD trucks on a newer Athearn GP-35. No fit! Wheel base is the same, mounting is the same and for all intents and purposes it should fit.  There is an age difference here as the Alco trucks are cast metal and no flywheel drive and the EMD has plastic side frames and dual flywheels.
So I learned that not all powered trucks were created equal and certainly not the drive systems.
Looks like I’m going to go back to searching out an entire powered frame WITH suitable trucks or I can wait to see what develops in the Bachmann pipeline ………. FM baby trainmaster?
Still I’d really like to build something myself rather than go out and buy it. (build being a relative term in this instance)

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Cheers,
Rich R

Thanks for your time and efforts on my behalf. Really do appreciate it.
So if the FA/FB won’t work I wonder what the wheel base on an Athearn F unit is? The newer ones with the plastic side frames? I could always switch out those for some Alco ones …… if the wheelbase is correct.
Question now is, who has an Athearn F unit or  possibly a Bachmann F they would be willing to measure?   

Why dont you not waste the money and just find an E-R models shark? why swap the chassis? it wont work. im sure you love your old sharks, you have fond memorys, but its not worth it.... :-\

besides with all the money you've wasted so far, you could have a new A unit shark  ;D

Quote from: jschmid on February 06, 2007, 01:43:23 AM
besides with all the money you've wasted so far, you could have a new A unit shark  ;D

Actually I have no fond memories of these old Baldwins at all. They were simply something I bought years ago and used to learn how to paint and decal. That’s why they are dummies, never moved, no need for power.
I am also the one who gave away a lot of free HO rolling stock and powered locomotives to several people here over the past month or so.
It’s more a matter of finding the old sharks (the dummies) that nobody would want and thinking why can’t these be powered?
It’s not that I want a powered one; it’s more that I have been going through all this ancient stuff and wondering. Hasn’t cost me anything so far that I hadn’t already spent almost 40 years ago.
Would I spend less than US $50.00 if I could power both the A and B? Yup! But that’s about all I’d spend right now as I’m not into HO any longer. I don’t count my time and labour so it’s something to do really.
I really appreciate all the time and information you all have been giving me with this.

But! If Bachmann decides to build a new Spectrum Baldwin ……… all bets would be off of course.

Cheers,
Rich R

Shark Update.

Just finished removing and replacing the powered trucks from an old Athearn Century series, no flywheels and metal side frames and fit them into an older yet Athearn GP7/9. They do fit and it does work. While at it I did install a far better motor of unknown parentage. The drive shafts and universals were easy enough if you simply swap out different pieces it will all fit properly.
The ROCO E-R Model Power dummy shells also fit over this setup with some careful machining. (of the frame, not the shell)So now I have one unit powered and it’s simply a question of tuning the motor and the gear sets to their best level of performance.
Why bother? Simply because I can get just about any part I want from either Athearn or NWSL.
Next step is to hard wire everything and replace the strobe light that Athearn included. Makes the inside of the cab light up like a bonfire and very little light comes out through the headlight. Once again, another easy fix.

I shall continue to mess with this setup and see if I can locate a more modern drive system that will fit. I’ve ordered a few more dummies so let’s see where I can go with this. I’ll let you know. Remember this was all stuff I was going to toss out so the cost to me has been ..... priceless.

Thanks everyone for their very valuable input and assistance.

Thanks,
Rich R

i know this an old thread, but recently model power has been selling powered alco pa units, with a CP Rail body for $16,  i got 3 and they work very nicely, the baldwin sharknose a unit  bodies fit the pa chassis nicely,  i put 2 sharknose bodies on the pa chassis, they have huge can motors and 8 wheel pick up, and except for some slight motor noise [which i think will quiet down after some running time] they work and pull great.
  just thought id let rich know in case he was still looking for something to power up those dummies.......of course when bachmann comes out with their new baldwins, those mp's might be back as decoration huh??  lol

Quote from: LD303 on March 28, 2007, 09:50:34 PM
i know this an old thread, but recently model power has been selling powered alco pa units, with a CP Rail body for $16,  i got 3 and they work very nicely, the baldwin sharknose a unit  bodies fit the pa chassis nicely,  i put 2 sharknose bodies on the pa chassis, they have huge can motors and 8 wheel pick up, and except for some slight motor noise [which i think will quiet down after some running time] they work and pull great.
  just thought id let rich know in case he was still looking for something to power up those dummies.......of course when bachmann comes out with their new baldwins, those mp's might be back as decoration huh??  lol

Thanks for the head's up on those. I've been striping paint from old shells and trying to line up the decal sets I want. Boy things sure have changed over the years! Decals that once were common are now hard to locate. DL&W anyone? Microscale is out right now but they will produce more. Emailed them today and got two responses with in an hour.
I have an other "idea" about sending a Bachmann FM 16-44 around the world. But that's for anther thread isn't it. DCC or DC that is the question!

Thanks again,
Rich R