Now that we know that there is to a be 4-4-0 and it will be very similar to the Mt. Gretna Narrow Gauge locomotive we need a photo of said locomotive. Anyone have a NG&SL Gazette and a scanner handy? I can't find it in my Gazettes but they are unfortunately incomplete. Post a photo of the engine or plans if you can. - Nevin
The engine was a 2' prototype, and very small in stature. It will be a very different engine than the one MMI is talking about producing. There are few pictures on the internet of the operation, this is probably the best one
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/odgretna.Html
Here is another clearer photo, couldn't find an online side view.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Gretna_Narrow_Gauge_Railway
Sounds perfect...... I guess the long lost info on the one spot of Rio Fanguso is surrected and indeeed the One spot looked a lot like this 4-4-0....... 8)
Try this site for another angle-http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/odgretna.Html JohnTumolo Britcarfan@aol.com
What we really need are some shots from the Train Show of the On30 version. I've heard that it's a gem, a nicely composed model. Anyone going to Detroit?
Quote from: C.P.R.R. Manager on July 27, 2007, 07:33:13 PM
What we really need are some shots from the Train Show of the On30 version. I've heard that it's a gem, a nicely composed model. Anyone going to Detroit?
Good point, That would be better than photos of the prototype. - Nevin
(http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/photos/mt_gretna.jpg)
The prototype
Harold
Wow, that is homely! Almost attractive in its way, not going to be on my layout. Happy for those of you who wanted a 4-4-0. Was hoping for a Heisler. Guess I will have to wait another year. Sure hope I'm still here. Rod
Quote from: Rod on July 27, 2007, 08:30:43 PM
Wow, that is homely! Almost attractive in its way, not going to be on my layout. Happy for those of you who wanted a 4-4-0. Was hoping for a Heisler. Guess I will have to wait another year. Sure hope I'm still here. Rod
(note: the rant below is based on the new 4-4-0 being similar to the Mt. Gretna loco...if it's not [Roseanne Rosannadanna voice]never mind [/Roseanne Rosannadanna voice] ;) )
IMHO, that looks more like something cobbled together from a too-small HO loco than something one would buy "new in a box"...
and I can't speak for anyone but myself...but that is no closer to being the kind of 4-4-0 I'd be willing to buy than it is to the Heilser you're after...
it certainly appears Bachmann has given up on the "budget 3-foot gauge" aspect of On30...I guess that's good for the Maine/industrial/and maybe logging modelers...but outside of some variations on the freight cars, there hasn't been anything new for us western types since the original Mogul freight and passenger sets...
I really hope that there are enough people happy with the new 4-4-0 to make Bachmann enough money to keep 'em in the game...I just wish they'd occasional "dance with the one that brung 'em" :'(
and that's all I have to say on the subject...I keep quiet until the next announcement
According to posts on the ON30 Conspiracy Yahoo board the prototype is in fact a Baldwin catalogue loco of a type exported to South America and other places. Gven the very short delivery time of the Mt Etna loco it would have had to be a standard design and thus similar (not necessarily identical) to other locos.
A small Baldwin inside frame 4-4-0 is at
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/8579/1.htm (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/8579/1.htm)
This loco is s a 30 inch gauge loco that operated in Brazil. Granted the tender, domes and other details are different from the Mt gretna loco, but it does show a family resemblence.
I look forward to the model photo. If it is indeed sufficiently generic to represent actual 30 inch gauge locos (as well as the MT Gretna loco) I congratulate Bachmann!
Hamish K
While the Mt. Gretna locomotive was significant in a way, that probably will not be the prototype. The Baldwin catalog had a locomotive very similar to the Brazilian locomotive Hamish referenced. Excepting the outsized headlamp, the Brazilian locomotive is quite close in actual looks to the 1:20.3 4-4-0.
The Mt. Gretna locomotive was built in seven days by Samuel Valclain himself with a hand picked crew to meet the deadline to open the Mt. Gretna Railway on July Fourth. The master himself did the design from on hand parts and other pieces. The locomotive was exceptionally poweful for its size.
I've read comments from a few folks who have seen the real Bachmann loco, and they agree that it's nicely proportioned. And small. I think they indicated that the modern version looks more like this, with the drivers a little closer together.
(http://narrowmind.railfan.net/440FUY74.jpg)
Hopefully some photos will leak out of Detroit soon, and we'll find out for sure. That's the advantage of having announcements closer to the release date -- By the time the announcement is made, there's a pilot model to answer all of these questions.
Well guys,
if I cast am eye on the Pictures already to be found here: To me it´s a nice looking Lokie... Can´t see anything ugly on her...
She will get some work to do on my Layout, but anyway:
I´m not wishing to pester Bach-Man that much, but shouldn´t we have some more geared Engines, let´s say a bigger Shay (more modern) and the Heisler we all would like to see one day.... Don´t let this go to others...
Kind regards, Tom ;)
Good Morning All,
Just a little bit of patience here. On another thread, the B Man said pix will posted as soon as possible after the samples are home from the show. I would think this week will answer all your questions......
Actually it is ironic. I said that Bachmann had taken On30 to a new level when they introduced real narrow gauge equipment.
I even had a website talking about On30 having moved beyond "a conspiracy of old men putting big cabs on HO mechanisms and driving them around the smallest possible radius". Dang-it, Bachmann has dragged On30 back into the abyss.
Glad I have moved on
S Scale rules
Harold
Quote from: hminky on July 28, 2007, 07:38:23 AM
Dang-it, Bachmann has dragged On30 back into the abyss.
Glad I have moved on
S Scale rules
Harold
That may be a bit of an over-reaction here. You haven't even seen the model yet. - Nevin
Quote from: hminky on July 27, 2007, 08:24:41 PM
(http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/photos/mt_gretna.jpg)
The prototype
Harold
I kind of like these ugly ducklings. I guess I will budget for one next year.... Will look good with the morning trian consist of Baggage-Combine-Coach...
I was actually expecting a 4-4-0 but I figured that Bachmnn would shrink the large scale version, but I guess people would have ended up begging for a mogul version of it aswell. But I like this version better, it will be just perfect. :) :) Hope there will be parts along to make her a wood burner.....
Ollie
Hal, being one of those "old men putting large cabs on HO mechs" I say Rubbish. ??? The new 4-4-0 is a great little engine that will be great to run and to modify (yep, the Old Man will be messing with it for sure). All I can say is the On30 community is a lot better off with the offerings from Bach. since the first 2-6-0 was introduced. I also believe another mfg. is coming out with a larger 4-4-0 in On30 so why should Bach. compete?
Have fun with your S scale trains.
Allen NYT
Try looking at the banner page for the Texas Outlaws on Yahoo. They have a pic of the show samples next to the 2-8-0.
To my eyes, it is not like the Mt Gretna nor the Brazilian.
-John
From the several On30 Yahoo groups. I LIKE it. ;D
Ken
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1384/931753271_15eb7685cb_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1396/931753417_ea2c09301b_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1300/931753541_dd8179e7a1_o.jpg
Making them so you don't have to click
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1384/931753271_15eb7685cb_o.jpg)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1396/931753417_ea2c09301b_o.jpg)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1300/931753541_dd8179e7a1_o.jpg)
Harold
Well, I feel a little better now that I've seen some pictures of the new 4-4-0. It is certainly an odd little critter and appears to be more of a hybrid of Mt. Gretna and the Brazillian.
What concerns me more is that it will may difficult to impossible to elegantly bring the couplers up to On3 height, which is what I'm using for a standard for my On30 stuff.
Rusty
Thanks for the photos. I like the looks of it....
I think it is a great choice of prototype and will fit in very nicely with early logging scenes, especially after you pile on a bunch of appropriate junk.
From an email I got from Micro Mark:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1414/987838836_3b5fb09641_o.gif)
Ken
When I saw the 4-4-0 I got the Mt. Gretna drawing in the Steam Loco Encyclopedia and compared it with a diagram I have of Oeste de Minas #1. Both locos have a lot in common... they are just about the same width and height and have the same driver diameter (can't say much about cylinder size). OdeM #1 is about 3 - 4 feet longer (engine only). For the Mt. Gretna engine to match up with OdeM #1 means she's BIG as 2-footers go!!!!
The B'mann 4-4-0 might be "pint-pot-sized" but it is MUCH better than a "Big Cab on HO mech" loco (it has the proper mechanical proportions, for starters). And remember, early American NG locos where in many cases scaled down versions of their SG counterparts, it was only much later in the Narrow Gauge Movement the NG locos began getting their own proportions (the 2-8-0 is a good example). For the "typical" trains found on many North American narrow gauge lines (2 to 4 cars) I believe that she'll be more than amply sufficient...
Cheers Nicholas
Sao Paulo, Brazil
I must admit that the engine looks better than the first photos. It would be nice to have a photo of the pre-production sample with a Bachmann coach behind it in order to see if the proportions are ok.
So far I still have the feeling that the 4-4-0 is ways too small to put in front of the passenger cars.
Bachmann?????
Nicolus
Did a similar comparsion of MT Grenta engine and EFOM # 22
Plans for both in NG&SLG. Will live with tapered boiler, but will
be seriously looking at building a set? of outside frames for
conversion.
With 17 OF 4-4-0s, 6 IF 4-4-0s operated by the EFOM at one time or another, may need to aquire more then one.
The IF 4-6-0s of the EFOM are another project to get done one day!.
Along with 2 Rio Turbio 2-10-2s, Canadianized for my Northern Division.
Ken Clark
Calgary Ab
GWN
Beware of the Gazette's plans!!! According to a friend of mine who lives in Rio and at one time was in charge of restorations in Sao Joao del Rei the Gazette drawings of #22 are filled with errors (he should know what he's talking about - when he quit working for RFFSA he took all the mechanical drawings made for the restoration project home with him!!! ;D). Anyway the loco to compare the 4-4-0 to is #1 - after all, she's a "shrunken-down" 8-18-C.
I would buy the "1920's" version... closing one eye I could imagine it rattling 6-8 empty steel drop-bottom gons and a baggage/caboose car on its way from Sao Joao north along the bank of the Rio das Mortes to the Fazenda do Pombal manganese pit (there used to be a lengthy spur into the pit, only #1-4 and the 20-series 4-4-0s could go up it on account of light rail and curvature)... ::)
Don't worry about the size of passenger equipment compared to the 4-4-0 - if you look at the Hilton book about American NG RRs you'll see several cases of the motive power being dwarfed by the passenger equipment!!!!
Cheers Nicholas
Sao Paulo, Brazil