Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: Dave on April 16, 2012, 03:47:05 AM



Title: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Dave on April 16, 2012, 03:47:05 AM
I have an Original 2-6-2T that was never a good runner on Track power so I have decided to convert it to R/C . My big dilema is, do I fit onboard Batteries ,or use a Trail car that has the added advantage of being able to carry a pair of SLA 12v 2.2ah batteries. Of course I then have to haul them around all the time. If anyone has done this conversion or has ideas about it I would be real pleased to know.

                       Cheers
                            Dave


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Tony Walsham on April 16, 2012, 05:35:31 AM
Hello Dave.

(Edit note:  I jumped in a bit too quickly.  I thought Dave meant the 2-6-6-2T.  Nevertheless this might prove useful anyway).

There is not a lot of room for batteries so I had to use 12 x AA size hybrid cells.  It is OK to use them for small loads but I would limit that use and use a trailcar with add on batteries in a trail car.  When you plug in the trail car batteries they automatically disconnect the on board batteries and save them for light engine duties.

This is how I did it.  http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/35/aft/119543/afv/topic/Default.aspx (http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/35/aft/119543/afv/topic/Default.aspx)



Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Kevin Strong on April 16, 2012, 11:40:56 AM
Go with Li-Ion packs. You should easily be able to fit a 14.8 volt, 2600mAh pack in the locomotive. The ones I use measure just under 3" x 3" x 3/4". I get them from www.all-battery.com.

I'm not overly familiar with the way the 2-6-2 is put together, but thought on where to put the pack would be:

1) flat across the boiler over the drivers. Depending on how the tanks are attached, you may have to cut away part of the side of the boiler so the batteries can extend into the side tanks a bit

2) Vertically inside the fuel bunker (if it's tall enough, enough room, etc.)

3) Vertically inside the cab. "Paint it black, and you won't see the batteries." It's not an ideal installation, but unless you're going to be taking close-up photos of the loco, you'll probably "never" notice it's there. It's also small enough to leave room on one or the other side to stick an engineer or fireman figure to hide it even further.

You can also buy other cell arrangements from All-Battery which may fit your particular installation better. They're more expensive, but if it means you don't have to do extensive surgery or carry an ungainly trail car behind the loco, it's worth the extra $30 or so bucks in my opinion.

Later,

K


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on April 16, 2012, 12:26:58 PM
Definitely go with the Lithium Ion Batteries.   I now use GTL 3.7 volt 5300 Mah batteries to make my battery packs. Like many of the Tenergy brand batteries the GTL Batteries also have built in protection circuits.  Google GTL 5300 Mah and you will find many sellers.  They usually ship from Hong Kong.  My last order was for 12 for $37.41 with free shipping. Can't beat it. In my Connies and Annies I never run out of power during a session. On my first order I had one bad one and they shipped me a replacement no hassle.  One of my friends uses all 12 to make a 15900 Mah pack to use with an ABBBA locomotive set to pull a passenger train.  The middle unit is a dummy which contains the receiver and batteries.  Battery holders are also readily available for those who do not like the idea of soldering batteries together to make battery packs. 

Making your own battery packs allows for many unusual configurations. 


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Kevin Strong on April 17, 2012, 12:20:58 AM
I did a search for GTL 5300, and got a bunch of links to forums claiming that the "5300 mAh" is, well, to be polite "optimistic;" that the highest "true" rating for a Li-Ion battery in that size is around 3100 mAh. Considering the price difference between 2200 and 2600 mAh batteries, I'd think that a 5300 mAh battery would be astronomical in price per cell, not half the price as the "lower capacity" cells.

What matters, though, is whether the batteries work for you. If they're cheap and run your trains as long as you need them to run, then they're worth the price. Bill's experience would indicate they certainly fall into that category for him.

I would caution about making your own battery packs with the Li-Ion batteries. Lithium batteries aren't like NiCad or NiMH batteries. They DO NOT react well to over-charging or over-discharging. You NEED some kind of PC board with each pack to monitor the cells so they don't over-charge or over-discharge. You can buy these PC boards to go with your individual cells, just follow the instructions properly on wiring them. That's why I prefer the pre-built packs. A bit more money, but a lot less hassle.

Later,

K


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Dave on April 17, 2012, 02:51:21 AM
Tony, Kevin, Bill,
                    Many thanks for your feedback about Batteries and their capacities. I think I will go with the onboard Batteries and probably Ni-mh as Li-ion batteries cost a fortune here in NZ. The biggest Ni-mh batteries I can get here are 2500mah and they are $7.50 each. I will be using a Revo RX and sound card from "My Loco" so that will fairly much fill up the available space in the Loco. I can get all the Batteries in the Side Tanks and the Elect boards in the cab with the charging jacks and switches.
                   
              Cheers from sunny Waikino
                       Dave


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on April 17, 2012, 09:12:32 AM

 The GTL Li-Ion Batteries like the Tenergy Li-ion Batteries have built in protection circuits right in each cell.  These circuits protect from both overcharge and under charge. There is no need for the extra PC board Kevin mentioned unless you buy individual cells without the built in protection circuit.  The newer cells with built in protection circuits have been around for about four years now and have proven to be very reliable.   I do not recommend the unprotected cells and the add on board Kevin mentioned due to the added complexity and bulkiness. 

 In the packs my friend built with the 5300 MaH cells he does get twice the running time over the Tenergy 2600 Mah packs.  So far both of my new 5300 mah pack are doing very well and I have not been able to run them down during a session. 

Soldering the packs together is really fairly straight forward, but an extremely hot iron is best so you can get in and get out without damaging the internal protection circuit.  I make one in about 15 minutes.  As I said if you are faint of heart in the soldering department there are now battery boxes or holders available in the 18650 size that will hold four individual 3.7 volt cells.  Just pop in four cells add a connector of your choice and you are in business.  Just make darn sure you buy the cells with the built in protection circuit or PCB as they are often called.

Lithium Battery technology is changing rapidly, when I first started I had to live with 900 mah and the added circuit board, but at the time it was well WOW!


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: willis on April 18, 2012, 09:01:46 AM
hi Bill,  do you have a link to your battery seller?
i searched those batteries, got an e-bay listing, i then contacted the seller (japan or hong cong) he said there was no pcb in these batteries.
not sure of the manufacturer of his batteries, they were the only 5300s listed.
thanks, willis.


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on April 18, 2012, 09:36:13 AM
Hi Willis,

We have used two different sellers,both are Ebay, this was the first:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12x-18650-GTL-Li-ion-5300mAh-3-7V-Rechargeable-Battery-LED-Torch-H408-/230719954001?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item35b7fb1c51

And this is the latest:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12x-18650-GTL-Li-ion-5300mAh-3-7V-Rechargeable-Battery-LED-Torch-/160717846089?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item256b87b649

Neither says they have the PCB included, but all the batteries we received so far do have the PCB.   I can only say this for the GTL brand and no others.  I'm not really sure the sellers know the difference.

Bill


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: willis on April 18, 2012, 03:32:14 PM
hi Bill,  the second listing was the one that i sent the email to.
how to tell if the cell has the PCB on/in it?
thanks, willis.


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Kevin Strong on April 18, 2012, 07:59:04 PM
Bill, can you post a photo of the cells you receive and your packs? What I'm seeing in the photos online is just the standard cell. The 1-cell PC boards I'm familiar with are little square affairs that attach to the end and get shrink-wrapped to the cell; not placed inside the cell itself.

Later,

K


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on April 18, 2012, 09:25:02 PM
Kevin, I will  post photos, but probably not til next week due to a camera problem I am having.  The GTL cells are the newer type with the PCB built into the casing while the Tenergy brand cells have the little board encased in the covering on the negative end.

The new GTL batteries clearly state on the covering that they are both overcharge and undercharge protected.  I will try to get a closeup of that writing as well.  My tests with the GTL batteries show that they stop charging at 4.3 volts which is virtually the same as the Tenergy batteries.  I have yet to test the undercharge protection, because I have never run them down during a session and always recharge before a new session. 

I also hope to post pictures of the 4 cell battery holders as well, but I have not received them yet.  I am anxious to try the holders to see how they work out. 

My tests with four cells made into a pack show the GTL cells comparable with the Tenergy packs I have built as far as protection goes. They never get even warm when charging.

Bill


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on April 22, 2012, 04:55:04 PM
I will post battery information tomorrow. 

Dave,  Since Bachmann did not make a G Scale 2-6-2T, please let us know what loco you are actually referring to?? 2-6-6-2T??  or different brand??   

Bill


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Dave on April 22, 2012, 06:04:40 PM
Hi Bill,
       Bachmann made a 2-6-2T Loco under the Spectrum Label approx 10years ago.
   Its No is 81598 and had the " Coal Creek" Lettering on the side Tanks. It is Modeled after the Baldwin Loco supplied to the Lynton and Barnstaple Railway in UK.
     It never has been a good runner as the gearbox is a bit on the high ratio scale and the back to backs on the drivers are way over gauge and as for as I can see, after dismantling the drive unit, it cannot be remedied without some major surgery. I will send you a photo ,as I have no idea how to post one on the Forum.
     On a similar note, The 11.1v Li-po, 2200mah is a bit of a fizzer. It only ran my Annie for 1hr yesterday and then gave up. Time to re-evaluate that situation as well.

                       Cheers
                           Dave


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on April 22, 2012, 06:55:55 PM
Dave,

The 81598 is a 2-4-2T rather than a 2-6-2T.  I have one too.  The Lyn was spectrum, but the coal creek 2-4-2T's were not Spectrum.  I have no experience with the Li-Po batteries and only recommend Lithium -Ion.  Using a Tenergy 2600 Mah 14.8 Volt pack in an Annie I got about six hours on flat and level track pulling 5 Jackson & Sharp passenger cars at about 30 to 40% throttle and did not deplete the battery.

(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh291/sharronbillc/Battery%20Pictures/815982-4-2TCoalCreekLumberco2.jpg)

Here is the list of what I have on them:

91196    Sou    762    2011    ~ Loco    2-4-2T Southern Lynton & Barnstable
91197    None    None    2011    ~ Loco    2-4-2T Unlettered Black
81598    CCL Co    1995    ~ Loco    2-4-2T, Coal Creek Lumber Co.
81304    Southern    762    1994    ~ Loco    2-4-2T, Lynton & Barnstaple
81599    None    None    1995    ~ Loco    2-4-2T, painted, unlettered

The 81304 AKA the Lyn was the first Spectrum locomotive Bachmann introduced back in 1994. People went nuts over it and they sold for high dollar even later on, on Ebay. I have never had one so I don't know how they run, but I never heard bad things about them.

The 81598 and 99 were the same only in looks, not Spectrum but to me very nice.
Bachmann did not consider them a great success and started dumping them around 1999 or 2000, you could get them for $50.  Their main problem was the electrical pickup which makes them a great candidate for battery power.   I had to keep mine squeaky clean to run on track power, and it still runs fine. 

91196 &97 were reintroduced last year as Standard line rather than Spectrum, supposedly to keep the cost down.  I haven't heard a thing about them. check out the catalog for pics.


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Dave on April 22, 2012, 07:08:49 PM
Your dead right there Bill, I was out in the shed working on it and suddenly realised I had made a major boo boo on the wheel arrangement. Must be cos we are upside down on the planet. Anyway, I just fixed the Back to Back problem. The Nylon gears that form part of the axle had a bit of Flashing on them. A quick bit of surgery with the file and now its all good.
                                Cheers

                                     Dave


Title: Re: Battery power for 2-6-2T
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on April 22, 2012, 07:53:47 PM
Since I had several personal message requests  and alot of interest I went and posted my experience with Lithium Ion batteries as a separate post.  Here is the link.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,20410.0.html