First of all, I am delighted that Bachmann has spared me the labor of hunting down an 80's production model at a train show and then finding a suitable locomotive to repower it with(the E60 model had an unreliable pancake motor). Now of course come the ineveitable questions:
HO AMTRAK E60CP LOCOMOTIVE â€" DCC EQUIPPED, FLYWHEEL, 8-Wheel Drive, E-Z Mate® Couplers
65502 4 AMTRAK PHASE II #971 SEPT 6 100.00
65503 1 AMTRAK PHASE III #974 SEPT 6 100.00
1. The despription said "8-wheel drive". The E60 had 12 wheels, not eight! Was this just a typo?
2. Is Bachmann reusing the mold from the 80's production? In other words, will this attempt have more detail?
3. As for the phase III...as Amtrak rebuilt the E60CP's into E60MA's, they were given the phase III paint scheme, and renumbered into the 600 series. Yet why is Bachmann's numbered #974? It should be #600. On the same note, the E60MA's had several cosmetic changes done to them during the rebuilding, such as the moving of the numberboards. Was this done on the Bachmann model?
4. Why is there no New Jersey Transit version? Bachmann does the F40PH in NJ Transit, so licensing shouldn't be an issue.
5. Will the pantographs be metal or plastic?
6. When will we be able to see pictures?
Thank you for making this model!!! ;D
Dear CRQ,
1) Twelve wheel drive
2) More detail
3) Number boards not changed. When I did the artwork, I found pictures of each number and scheme I did, but the Phase may be a typo...
4) Don't know
5) Metal
6) When samples return to Philly
You're welcome!
the Bach-man
Hello,
i hope, the engines will made in the way like the E33 or the HHP8.
All other (cheaper) construction will be a joke .....
I'd imagine they're going to re-use the E-33 chassis for the E-60. Apart from the trucks and the battery box, very little would need to be changed. I certainly hope that's what they're going to do, because the E-33 runs great!
Well, they could do a correct model if the roadnumber were #975 for the Phase III version:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=30532&nseq=1
This is the only 900-series E60 (whether E60CH or E60CP) that I've ever seen photos of in Phase III paint - a slide was sold on eBay a few months back showing the opposite end with the pantographs more clearly. Note that one pan has been replaced with the red Brecknell-Willis design that has since become standard for Amtrak, so presumably this unit was a test bed for that style. By the way, the 975 was an E60CH, one of 19 built with head-end power instead of the steam generators that the first 7 E60CP units (i.e. 950-956) carried.
I also want to point out that for several years, the 1983/1984-rebuilt E60MAs wore Phase III with their headlights and numberboards still in their original position on the nose. It wasn't until roughly 1987-1989 that these were relocated due to water leaking in through the rubber gaskets, getting dangerously close to the electronics behind the control stands! If you search the RailPictures site, you'll find a number of photos showing E60MAs with nose numberboards in the mid-1980s.
Personally, I'd prefer to get an RTR model with high numberboards, in Phase III paint and numbered in the 600 series. If doing the relocated numberboards isn't practical, I'd just be content to see a correct model,
period, such as the 975 in Phase III paint or a 600-series unit in Phase III with low numberboards.
By the way, if Phase III is in fact being done, I have data that describes the exact dimenions of the red/white/blue stripes and the lettering. I'd be interested in sharing this, as I'd hate to see a repeat of the oversized-lettering fiasco like on the Amfleet cars.
QuoteI'd imagine they're going to re-use the E-33 chassis for the E-60. Apart from the trucks and the battery box, very little would need to be changed. I certainly hope that's what they're going to do, because the E-33 runs great!
The E-33's frame is shorter than on the E60, so that doesn't exactly leave much to be shared between the two units. The
design of the chassis might be similar, which would be perfectly fine by me.
Astroshane has some great points that need to be addressed! Mr. Bachmann???
Bachmann has continued to fail (IMO)when it creates Amtrak equipment besides the HHP-8 and the Acela which are fabulous models. Kudos to Bachmann for those two successful models! Besides that, I really do not understand Bachmann sometimes. Research is the key when creating a model. The correct paint and numbering the model receives is very important to the customers like me. The closer to the real thing(IMO) a model is the more money I will not mind spending on it.
We still need the Amtrak California and Pacific Surfliner Cars in HO scale, too. Along with the FL9, P30CH, SDP40F, ROHR Turbo, Talgo Fins and decals for Amtrak Cascades and Las Vegas Talgos, and some more phase V locomotives. That is a whole other topic though.
Mr. Bachmann, can you please address the good points that astroshane pointed out?
Sean D.
Dear Sean,
The loco is a Standard Line model, and there is no second tool to move the number boards. The artwork was done from photos.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Quote from: the Bach-man on July 30, 2007, 11:24:13 PM
Dear Sean,
The loco is a Standard Line model, and there is no second tool to move the number boards. The artwork was done from photos.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
In that case, Mr. Bach-man, I'll just have to take your word for it - and hope that the Amtrak striping and lettering are indeed represented properly. I still have my doubts about the announced #974 in Phase III, as I've never seen a photo of this unit in that paint scheme, and even if it did exist, it's anything but typical. Maybe that is just a typo like you said and should actually read Phase II - but it would be nice to know for sure what was intended, instead of all this guessing.
Like I said, my advice and prototype information are here, but hey, I can't
force you to make sure your models are as accurate as they can be...just because it's Standard Line doesn't mean it can't be prototypically correct.
I wonder if Bachmann has any plans to paint the E60s in New Jersey Transit? wil the new metal pantographs be available seperately? I know the only other source of faively pantographs is through sommerfeldt, and its an expensive import, especially since i want to retrofit my current E60s and my Metroliner EMU cars.
To be honest, i'm kinda angry bachmann announced them now. just two weeks ago i aquired the American GK kits, a company who only made the E60s before going under back in the 70s/80s. they were undecorated dummys, but they had the chassis that could be upgraded with PPW parts now on order. I could have jsut waited a few months and go a powered, DCC equipped model that only had to be repainted and detailed as planned, and it would all be at most, $200. the powering parts alone cost about that much ( although i did order powering parts for some other models in that order, such as a more modern motor for my Metroliners), and it cost me about $80 between the two dummy engines. And i don't even have DCC for them!
I'm still buying a phase II E60CP to replace my old bachmann E60, so now i will have all versions.
The only thing i'm worried about is that my American GK E60s are noticabley bigger then the bachmanns i have from the 70s. I hope they match when they arrive. Right now i'm building an NJT E60CH and an E60MA.
right now, my E60CH is closest to completion.
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6346/73007004zc9.jpg)
I'm working on my E60MA to, but i need some more parts before i do more painting and decaling. so far i've filled in the nose
(http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/6037/e60ch958ande60ma610workcn5.jpg)
hello,
so all joy of the model will gone at me, when it will be a standart model.
So perhaps it is better, to do further works on a american GK model.
It is not cheap to re-power the engine, but when you put in a sd75genesis drive unit, it is a very smooth runner. Then some additional things like cab interior, lighting, sommerfeld panthos, i will be a good loco, and for the age of the model well detailed.
Thats true, i'll probably have a better running loco. the only thing is that there would have been DCC. i would compromise. wiring up these drives for DCC has proven to be a headache, as i have found in my Athearn BB kits. I'm happy bachmann has included decoders in their line, even it is only standard. It makes DCC a possiblity for beginners. Bachamnn seems to attract everyone i know who starts out in the hobby.
I just wish they had sound decoders for the E60s and E33s, or atleast their HHP8, since electric sounds are so hard to come by. the only one out there is the GG1 sound for american prototypes, and while an AEM7/ALP44 can be had if you take specific sounds from european equivalents in loksound, there is no where to cram a speaker in there, ESPECIALLY if you modify your units to the AC version, or make your ALP44s more realistic, which removes the boxes that were meant to hold decoders.
I plan on eventually coming up with E60 sound effects that would be downloadable to a Digitrax SoundFX decoder. I have the horn sounds already, but getting the decoder to properly simulate the way electric traction motors whine as speed increases may require some complicated computer programming.
With regards to AEM-7s, I haven't proven this yet (because my AEM-7s aren't at the forefront of my roster) but I took some measurements and believe that it will be possible to fit a Digitrax SDH104-series sound decoder in place of the original light board, with a 14x24mm mini oval speaker from Tony's Train Exchange where there is space at one end. Alternatively, the same might be possible using one of the new DH165 decoders with an SFX004 sound board added onto it.
Quote from: astroshane on August 02, 2007, 12:00:43 AM
I plan on eventually coming up with E60 sound effects that would be downloadable to a Digitrax SoundFX decoder. I have the horn sounds already, but getting the decoder to properly simulate the way electric traction motors whine as speed increases may require some complicated computer programming.
With regards to AEM-7s, I haven't proven this yet (because my AEM-7s aren't at the forefront of my roster) but I took some measurements and believe that it will be possible to fit a Digitrax SDH104-series sound decoder in place of the original light board, with a 14x24mm mini oval speaker from Tony's Train Exchange where there is space at one end. Alternatively, the same might be possible using one of the new DH165 decoders with an SFX004 sound board added onto it.
I think the horn sounds would help out alot. I know some people who are good at computer programming, but i don't know if they could work on this.
as far as the AEM7s go, the PC board on the AEM7 is extra wide, so it might be weird to fit a DH165 or similar in there, but it might work. I know the OBB 144 fans and traction motors are a match, all you need to do is switch out the european sounds with a K5LA, a more american bell, and some other equipment.
Still a tiny speaker might not make the best sounds. You'd think for a full hooded locomotive, there would be space in there. Sometimes i wonder if a good trade off would be to remove the rear cab interior, since no crew is in it, and you never really look into the cab anyway.
whenever you do get E60 sounds, let me know!
My E60MA project is moving along. I still need some major detail parts, but right now, enough is together to look nice.
(http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/2186/thee60maandsomeothers04pk5.jpg)
Quote from: astroshane on August 02, 2007, 12:00:43 AM
I plan on eventually coming up with E60 sound effects that would be downloadable to a Digitrax SoundFX decoder. I have the horn sounds already, but getting the decoder to properly simulate the way electric traction motors whine as speed increases may require some complicated computer programming.
Could the QSI GG-1 electrical traction motors sounds be used?
Quote from: tren on August 12, 2007, 09:48:45 AM
Quote from: astroshane on August 02, 2007, 12:00:43 AM
I plan on eventually coming up with E60 sound effects that would be downloadable to a Digitrax SoundFX decoder. I have the horn sounds already, but getting the decoder to properly simulate the way electric traction motors whine as speed increases may require some complicated computer programming.
Could the QSI GG-1 electrical traction motors sounds be used?
No, it can't. Keep in mind that the GG1 was built in the the mid 1930s, some of them with westinghouse (not GE) parts.
the E60CP on the other hand was built in the 1970s, with much more modern motors and drives, far beyond what was carried by the GG1.
the only sound you can take from the GG1 is it's cooling fan sound (and generic train noises like wheel flange squeak).
Listen to this NJ Transit E60CH (it says CP, its wrong) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdTibIVZJzE
the fans would work if you made them quieter. On the real GG1, these fans were that loud, but on a modern engine such as this they made them quieter.
Now listen to the E60MA (its the second train in the video)-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWGqfTwNf_o&mode=related&search=
That is some shriek, its like a jet plane! I'm betting there are other traction motor sounds, and a good place to start looking for electric sounds is Loksound. Despite the E60CP being all american, the components may be used in other electric such as those in europe, or atleast, a better standin sound can be had.
Keep in mind that most E60s had PO1235 horns, which astroshane has (speaking of which, can you send me these sounds? would it be possible to put them on a Loksound decoder?). I'm modeling 610 just because it has the more common K5LA horn instead.
I'll need to look through the sounds to see what has a good shriek like that.
QSI's sounds aren't very good anyway in my opinion. They all seem kind of muddled and dull, and there's not a whole lot of variety between engine types (granted, the GG1 is an obvious exception to that, but I still don't like the way it sounds). Although they've introduced a downloadable capability to their latest systems, so you can replace the sounds with a different set, the actual sound sets are still proprietary and uneditable.
I'm not that interested in LokSound at this point because although the Digitrax decoders have a long way to go in terms of add-on sounds becoming available, my belief is that they'll be more flexible for sound programming in the long run, and they make it cheaper to add sound to a whole fleet. They also work with ordinary 8-ohm speakers, so you don't have to worry about finding a 100-ohm type that fits and will work with LokSound.
The P01235 recording I have was made by a friend who owns at least one of those horns, so I can't just send it to you, but there may be something usable on his website (http://trainweb.org/mdamtrak199/horns.html). He also has in-cab audio from an E60MA late in its life, and that will serve as a guide for when I start assembling my sound set. But I don't expect to get around to that for many months yet...I still have to do F40PH and P40/P42 sound sets, essentially from the ground up, to simulate the way those engines sound depending on whether they're supplying HEP or not.
Well, pictures of the new E60 have been posted. Naturally:
A. It still says 8-Wheel drive. Is Bachmann convinced that it uses a A-1-A!?
B. They're labeled E60CP. This is incorrect, both are E60CH. does it matter? Of course it does!The CP's pulled far different cars then the CH's.
C. #974...I'll need to see a picture before I accept that this is anything like the prototype.
None of these should be particulary expensive changes to make, especially #1. Bachmann did such a wonderful job on the Acela and HHP-8..why is the E60 being ruined by stupid mistikes?
On the other hand, the tooling appaers correct, and overall it looks nice. Now if Bachmann would just do an E44 or E60C...
I'm sure most people can live with the problems. i dont' see a big deal with it.
It's just irritating that Bachmann messed up on these minor details, especially ones that can so easily be corrected. However, the tooling appears completely correct, and that's the important part. Everything else can be fixed.
as far as the labeling goes, its probably better they made "CH" models anyway, since they already sell the Amfleets to go with it. besides, they don't look that much different in the end anyway from the CPs. The CH can also have more stuff done with it.