I am going to re-letter and re-painta Bachmann 2-8-0 Connie loco and tender, to a preferred specific favorite engine. I know how to remove the current lettering. What I don't know is what are the proper decals to purchase, or what brand/where to purchase them? This is my first time doing this and the ones I have found at my local hobby store are not the exact right size. The letters for the cab are too big, and the letters they have for the tender are too small. Also, the gold letters are too gold.. and not yellow enough to match the pictures below. BTW - the images below are of the engine I will be re-lettering the loco to.
Thanks for any tips you guys can give.
Chuck
(http://www.railfanusa.com/pics/mine/tourist2/110930_19.jpg)
(http://www.railfanusa.com/pics/mine/tourist2/110930_52.jpg)
(http://www.railfanusa.com/pics/mine/tourist2/110930_54.jpg)
(http://www.railfanusa.com/pics/mine/tourist2/110930_53.jpg)
Where do you find good decals??
I would love to have Pere Marquette to some of my Locomotives!
Microscale offers alphabet and number decal sets in a plethora of colors and sizes. That would be my first stop.
I'm not familiar if they would look right for you, but if you can find them, look for a set of Southern Railway steam freight decals from Champ. Unfortunately, the firm has been out of business for a couple of years now, and these may be hard to find.
The decals made by this firm were considered something of a gold standard for quite a few years. I regard it as too bad that this would be one thing that would go away; while modern model factory painting and printing is immeasurably improved over what it used to be only 10 years ago, there is still a lot for roads and sometimes certain cars that isn't offered. And just what are you supposed to do for things like unlettered Tichy kits, or if you are planning a roster of cars for a model railroad set around Deepwater, W.Va., which would feature coal trains from the Chesapeake & Ohio, the Virginian Railway, and the New York Central (yes, the NYC ran there, it was a former Kanawha & Michigan line, all of these routes still in service)--and you're going to need a huge fleet of hopper cars, all with different numbers, for the three roads, not to mention some fleets of other cars, like a string of oil cars from the WW II era? What if you're a Santa Fe or Southern Pacific modeler, and you've got to do the same thing with a bunch of refrigerator cars "loaded" with those California oranges?
you might find this entertaining: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/5805?page=1
Quote from: J3a-614 on April 29, 2012, 11:14:59 PM
I'm not familiar if they would look right for you, but if you can find them, look for a set of Southern Railway steam freight decals from Champ. Unfortunately, the firm has been out of business for a couple of years now, and these may be hard to find.
The decals made by this firm were considered something of a gold standard for quite a few years. I regard it as too bad that this would be one thing that would go away
I agree! I mourn our loss of Champ decals. For me they were always easy to work with, and the end result/appearance was always satisfactory.
I appreciate the suggestions and direction. i will do some more digging and see what I can come up with. Did a good bit of painting on the locomotive this weekend to add the white and red detailing. Pretty pleased with the the results, but have to trim the cab window areas red still and am VERY apprehensive about that. I have no idea how I'm going to pull that off without messing something up. Also have a lot of detail work to do, like replacing the bell and such, lots of finer details. :)
OH - almost forgot this question.. Most decals I am seeing in the hobby shops here where I live, in the train section, are "dry" decals. It looks like those are for buildings and maybe even freight cars. Am I correct in assuming that I am looking for "wet" decals for this type of application? Also, since I'm likely going to be ordering online, how will I know the difference and if I'm ordering the right product? Sorry for what I'm sure appear to be rookie questions.
napa-
There is no difference in the use of dry and wet decals. Either type can be used anywhere. It's all a matter of individual preference, availability and experience. Some folks like one, some the other. Most decal listings will state whether decals are true decals, stick-ons or dry transfers.
I, too, miss Champ. However, please note that they printed acres of decals before they ceased production so you can still obtain most of their catalogue items. Some hobby shops still carry them and they show up on ebay regularly. The trick with ebay, of course, is that you must find a listing for the decal set you need.
-- D
I have to disagree some with dry vs. wet being "the same". They may look the same when applied, but they are vastly different in application. I frankly never had much luch with dry transfers on anything other than a smooth flat surface. With wet decals, they can be slid off and moved around a bit to get them right where you need them before blotting and using setting solution. As for the issue with the steamer lettering, I think what you want to look for in color is "Dulux Gold", not plain Gold. Also, consider looking at decals for other scales - That small Southern on the side of the cab might be found in an N scale set, for instance.
Once again, I greatly appreciate all the advice and leads you guys are giving. That's why I posted my question here, as I knew this is where I would likely get my most direct answers. (I could have posted in another RR Modeling forum I frequent too, but prefer here). I am on the prowl for what I need and will update this thread with pictures of the locomotive - when i get get to that point. ;D
I read on another forum that Champ has been out-of-production for several years, but had a supply of decals that could be used to fill orders. Until the bad flood in Minot, ND last year destroyed their stock.
Champ made an excellent product that was my favorite brand.
Never had much success with dry transfers. They tend to fall apart when being applied, are difficult to put on straight, and come off when handled. Maybe it is just me. A lot of folks like them.
Les
Quote from: Desertdweller on May 01, 2012, 02:51:42 PM
I read on another forum that Champ has been out-of-production for several years, but had a supply of decals that could be used to fill orders. Until the bad flood in Minot, ND last year destroyed their stock.
Champ made an excellent product that was my favorite brand.
Never had much success with dry transfers. They tend to fall apart when being applied, are difficult to put on straight, and come off when handled. Maybe it is just me. A lot of folks like them.
Les
I'll agree that dry transfers are harder to apply as there's no second chance like there is with decals.
However, if you don't spray your transfers or decals with a fixative, like Dullcote, then they will eventually come off when handled. Always spray your decals and transfers with something like Dullcote.
Quote from: ebtnut on May 01, 2012, 12:53:36 PM
I have to disagree some with dry vs. wet being "the same".
ebt-
There are more meanings to
use than gluing part A to part B. Think "yuze" versus "yoose." Thus, you can use (yuze) paint to color a wall or consult the internet to learn about the use (yoose) of a paint brush. My post doesn't say that the mechanics of applying wet and dry transfer decals are the same; it says that you can use either kind of decal anywhere you need a decal.
-- D
Did some looking up of decal numbers to help you find what you may want. All of these are Champion Decal numbers ("wet" or "water-slide" decals):
EH-32--Steam, freight, all dulux gold, with large numbers, road name, and SR herald--this is the set you would normally want for this job.
EH-232--Steam, passenger, bronze gold, "Crescent Limited," other lettering for green locomotives; for passenger power, you will also need the set below:
EH-232S--Steam, "Crescent Limited" bronze gold, stripes set, to go with the lettering set above.
EH-232D--Steam, passenger, dulux gold, "Crescent Limited," other lettering for green locomotives; for passenger power, you will also need the set below:
EH-232SD--Steam, "Crescent Limited" dulux gold, stripes set, to go with the lettering set above.
"Dulux gold" or "dulux yellow" is a common gold or yellow paint color, used by a lot of railroads for steam locomotives and passenger cars. "Bronze gold" is as its name suggests, a darker, metallic-looking color, and simulates the gold leaf style paint used before such finishes got too expensive.
A site I think you will like:
http://southern.railfan.net/
Some selected links from above:
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam_ex/steam_ex.html
This engine was once offered by Bachmann:
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/482/sou1452.html
Have fun.
Thanks a TON J3a-614, that's great stuff and a huge help.
I have visited that site before. I won't stray too far off topic here.. but since you provided the links to "Southern Steam", the #630 is a cool engine to me and I like it because it is a "Southern Steamer".
BUT.. what you hit on that you are unaware of is that the engine that has a VERY SPECIAL place with me is the Southern #4501 (which is also at the same Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum with the #630) that you see on that "Southern Steam" page you linked to. That engine to me is my childhood, my grandfather, and why I love trains today... and why I want to pass that love on to my son. And, the #4501, which is a Light Mikado 2-8-2, is currently well into restoration and due to be back in service later this year (fingers-crossed). I can say that I will be there when she is under steam again, with my son and daughter.
Anyway.. sorry to stray off topic.. BUT YOU STARTED IT. ;D
No. 4501 was my introduction to the modern main line steam excursion era. I rode behind her on her first visit to Washington, DC (fall of '64, I believe). Somewhere I still have some slides from that time. She was still around when I got out of the Navy in 1971, and I worked the trips with the local NRHS chapter out of Alexandria, VA. Even got a brief cab ride once. No. 630 and sister 722 also visited here (along with all of the SR steam stable at one time or another). Hopefully, we will see 4501 here again as NS ramps up the new program.
I have done pro painting and decaling for many years. Champ always had some of the best decals. I do not get along wqith dry transfers and only use tghem as a last resort--sometimes applying them to decal paper and making water-slide type from them.
The yellow lettering on the loco in ypour pix is called "Dulux Gold" by DuPont. It is a yellow gold. "Bronze Gold" refers to the metallic gold color.
wet decals need a glossy surface. I like the Micro Scale system--follow Micro Scale's instructions--gloss finish, blue label solution, let dry, then red solution, gloss, then flat or satin finish. gj
"Wet decals need a glossy surface. I like the Micro Scale system--follow Micro Scale's instructions--gloss finish, blue label solution, let dry, then red solution, gloss, then flat or satin finish."--Glen K
I would second this advice, and can tell you why.
The decal is on a film, and that film is (a) glossy in itself, and (b) will snuggle down better on a glossy surface. The reason for this is that a "flat finish" surface is rough, with a lot of little peaks, valleys, and holes. Some of these are almost microscopic in size, but they are deep enough, and the decal film is thick and stiff enough (not to you when handling it, but to those little peaks an low areas), that the film can't settle down into all those little low spots. The result is a bunch of little bubbles under the decal, which will be visible as a frosted look. A glossy surface doesn't have all those low spots, so the decal can lay flat on it.
Even with a glossy finish, you can still have things that cause white spots on the decal, such as where the film might form a "tent" over a rivet. That's where those decal setting solutions come in, softening the film even more so it can snuggle down around the rivets and other raised details.
After you've got the decals down and dry--and don't move the model until they are dry--it's a good idea to shoot the thing with some more gloss finish to seal the decal and get a consistent surface finish. After that, some flat or satin finish will cut the shine down to something more typical of railroad equipment.
I can personally say that with care, the decals can look painted on.
My only warning it to be careful if you are using clear finishes out of a spray can. The combination of expanding propellant and moisture in the air can cause the finish to condense some of the moisture into the clear coating, and give you a milky finish. I've had it work out to make a black car roof look like it was weathered, but it wasn't what I wanted it to do at the time, and it's certainly not what I wanted it to do on the sides of the car!
While on the subject of Southern Railway steam, we have some more on the overhaul of the 4501, courtesy of a discussion on Railway Preservation News:
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33024
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33217
Have fun.
Quote from: J3a-614 on May 02, 2012, 07:42:25 PM
My only warning it to be careful if you are using clear finishes out of a spray can. The combination of expanding propellant and moisture in the air can cause the finish to condense some of the moisture into the clear coating, and give you a milky finish. I've had it work out to make a black car roof look like it was weathered, but it wasn't what I wanted it to do at the time, and it's certainly not what I wanted it to do on the sides of the car!
The solution to this is quite simple, spray again and the milkiness will disappear. :)
I've ordered some of the Champ decals from eBay. Hopefully they'll be here in a few days. Gonna start removing the current decals today or tomorrow. Always nervous about doing something for the very first time. :-\
While you're waiting for the decals, and for while you're waiting for them to dry, here's something to while away the time:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,20132.0.html
This is in the list above, and I think you'll find it interesting enough to have special attention:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoR7mcsVxtU&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLB37E1F027F216C4D
This should help with some of the waiting, in the meantime, as per Jonathan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDJ_Mz8ftqI
Her is an update of my (first) re-lettering project. I don't have any proper weathering products at the moment, so that will come later. Once I found the proper Champs decals I needed, they were partial, used sets. So, there are a few decals missing from the loco right now. For instance, the "Southern" from one side of the cab, and the "630" from the same side of the Tender. I will hunt the same set of deals down and complete the job.
The decals were not a perfect match, and in some places I had to improvise with some lettering.. but I got as close as I could. Turned out pretty good if you compare with the original pics on the first page in this post.
There are some other exact details between the Bachmann engine and the actual engine that I need to correct, like the bell placement, ditch lights (correct name?) and some other stuff like that. Will be attending to those details as I go.
Please give me your thoughts.. I know it isn't perfect. But hey, I'm a rookie, :)
Here is a link to my page of photo's - which shows progress, from original HO logo==co to how she looks now:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102700810654735985344/Southern630HOTrainCustom
But here are a few to see here:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--x5x7hx5298/T8ojL4mXnLI/AAAAAAAAD04/t3aGQDkb0Xs/s800/DSC01892.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QClSXb4P8hs/T8ojNISyeBI/AAAAAAAAD1A/wAsXy_0smDA/s800/DSC01893.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mv0RyabRFa0/T8ojDRPC8lI/AAAAAAAAD0o/2Os7-c2MfO4/s800/DSC01890.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OlnejUJOYPU/T8ojNcDcchI/AAAAAAAAD1E/B4GaLLjjYBQ/s800/DSC01894.JPG)
"Please give me your thoughts.. I know it isn't perfect. But hey, I'm a rookie,"
I think you're doing fine; it's only too bad you wound up with partial sets! !!@#$%^&***@@!!!!
Hope you found the work easy, if a bit time consuming. That's really the secret of things like this--give yourself the gifts of patience and time.
Atlas Tool Company actually says this in the instructions for some of their structure kits, like the station model that's been around for 50 years or more. The instructions actually tell you, "Take your time and get your money's worth." And that is so, so true. . .
Again, congratulations on learning this new skill, and doing so well on the first try.
I appreciate your comments - and suggestions. Very good suggestion. I am an artist by trade, who's turned into a professional Graphic Designer and Video Producer/Editor.. so I understand the concept of patience, and can see how that trait must transfer over to this hobby if you're going to truly enjoy it. And the simple process of re-lettering a locomotive takes a lot more patience than one could imagine going into it the first time.. ESPECIALLY the smallest decals on the front headlight number boards. Good night. :o
Looking forward to getting some more decal sets in to complete the task, the final details parts and then get it weathered up nice.