Hi all. I have been looking at pics of railroad stations in the USA, and have seen quite a number of station platforms that are about 3 foot high, level with the passenger cars, doorways. Other platforms are almost at ground level. I am trying to find out the height of these platforms above ground. Are they level with the ties, or level with the top of the rail line. I want to model some on my layout. Many thanks. Col.
Col.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_platform_height#United_States
Jerry
This shows you can find almost anything on Wikipedia
from my experience, platform height was even with the tops of the rails.
Sig-
Having boarded many US trains from platforms below floor level on the trains themselves, I can tell you that they varied from place to place but not a whole lot. Most were just about railhead level. That made it easy for the railroads to build connections which passengers could use to reach additional tracks. Other than commuter stations, most railroads in the US had station platforms at ground level. This was even true at large terminals like LAUPT and all of the Chicago stations.
-- D
According to Chicago Union Station : A Look at its History & Operations Before Amtrak by Edward M. DeRouin , published by Pixel Publishing , 2003. Passenger platforms were seven and three fourths inches high & baggage platforms were one foot and eight inches high . This what they were built as back in 1925 , I suppose this is still the case although the concourse was rebuilt when airspace rights were sold and a highrise was built over it and both the north & south platforms. I was interested in where their height was based from . What is the average width allowed for the cars themselves ? What is the average height of the floors in passenger cars ? John II
jhan-
I've been through Chicago Union Station several times in the past ten years and the platforms are still at ground level. It would have been so easy to have built them at train height. There is no need for passengers to cross from one track to another and the tracks are all top fed so higher platforms would mean shorter ramps and stairways.
-- D
I remember riding trains where a conductor or trainman, at a stop, would get off the train and have a little stool for the use of patrons entering and exiting the car.
Isn't asking how high a platform should be the same as asking how big a dog should be?
Quote from: florynow on April 29, 2012, 08:49:31 AM
the less important the stop, the less the RR spent on the platform.
Paul-
Not so much the importance of the stop, but the number of passengers using the station. It wouldn't make sense for railroads to build large elevated platforms for one or two or three station tracks where only a few people get on and off of three or four trains a day. It would also complicate passengers' need to get to tracks other than the one right next to the station itself. However, big city stations have droves of passengers getting on and off of their trains, and they typically have concourses which enable passengers to either walk up ramps to overhead platforms or descend ramps to subterranean platforms. Climbing up and down takes quite a bit of time compared to just walking on at floor height. Yes, elevated platforms cost more to build than blacktop or concrete at ground level, but the additional cost is justified when trains can load and unload so much faster, helping trains stay on schedule and clearing the way for the next train.
Station stops at small stations were often planned for a minute or less; there would have been no way to accommodate that if you had 500 people trying to get on or off of a train but it's plenty if there is only a handful of people embarking and disembarking.
This is also why virtually all subway systems and even contemporary light rail commuter systems use elevated platforms. Commuters are looking for speed; they don't want to sit at every stop for ten minutes while 50 or 60 people board. The only way to accommodate such crowds in a small amount of time is floor level platforms. Terminal stations often get away with ground level platforms because they aren't trying to board passengers in a minute or two; they'll typically open boarding 20 or even 30 minutes before departure.
-- D
Paul-
The number of passengers is part of the equation for how important a station is, but numbers don't describe the whole story. There will also be considerations like whether a station serves only one railroad or several (permitting passengers to change lines), whether there is an express office, the size of the physical plant, the number of trains served, whether other railroad business like division offices are at the station, and, especially, whether the station provides mail service. When a station was built will also be a factor. For example, a station may have been built when a railroad first came to town but now it must serve a far larger community from a dinky station because the town grew up around it and there's no place for expansion. So there are lots of people using dated facilities but another station may have been built with expansion in mind (and cash in the bank) so there's a more sophisticated and expensive station serving fewer people. Or maybe one station is very important but it has ground level platforms (which are the most common) but a piddling commuter station in the same town has floor-level platforms. Which is the more "important" station, the one with 20 trains from three railroads a day, a major post office connection, Railway Express office, division offices for the railroad which runs the station, crew change facilities and a commisary for the diners, or the nearby subway station which serves ten times as many passengers in what is really just bus service on tracks? Numbers alone don't tell the story.
-- D
Something else to keep in mind is the era when the station was built. Stations built in the 19th and early 20th centuries were designed with open platform cars in mind, which didn't have "Dutch"doors and drop-down steps. When the great train stations were being constructed, especially those with massive passenger loads (think Penn Station and Grand Central station) the combination of newer car designs and elevated platforms came together.
In today's world, all public transit systems have to be handicapped accessible, meaning that elevated platforms are almost mandatory. For commuter rail operations, at old stations with low platforms, they usually keep a portable elevator unit on hand to lift passengers up to door level.
BTW, I was by the ex-Southern station in Manassas, VA this past weekend and the platform there is about 4 inches higher than the railheads. Both Amtrak and VRE use this station daily.
I never heard of them, but maybe some cars have them. Drop-down steps. The cars that I have ridden in had fixed steps, with a steel plate that drops down for high level platforms. It didn't matter if it was full doors or Dutch doors. I think high level platforms tracks are only used for passenger trains. Other train bypass those platforms.
the platforms in the pittsburgh subway have both high and low level platforms. when the subway first opened, pittsburgh still had a large fleet of pcc trolleys which used the subway. these couldn't use the high level platforms so provisions were made for them.
it should be noted that high level platforms are now the standard, as wheelchair access to the trains is so much quicker and easier from a high level platform.
In today's world, all public transit systems have to be handicapped accessible, meaning that elevated platforms are almost mandatory. For commuter rail operations, at old stations with low platforms, they usually keep a portable elevator unit on hand to lift passengers up to door level.
I would think that would be needed on all railways these days not just commuter lines. Amtrak for example has handicapped accessable cars.
Quote from: Joe323 on May 03, 2012, 11:53:12 AM
I would think that would be needed on all railways these days not just commuter lines. Amtrak for example has handicapped accessable cars.
Joe-
Many of the AMTRAK cars have very low entries, like the old
El Capitan high-level
cars on the Santa Fe, with handicap preference seating on the lower level.
--D
Quote from: Doneldon on May 03, 2012, 01:38:19 PM
Quote from: Joe323 on May 03, 2012, 11:53:12 AM
I would think that would be needed on all railways these days not just commuter lines. Amtrak for example has handicapped accessable cars.
Many of the AMTRAK cars have very low entries, like the old El Capitan high-level
cars on the Santa Fe, with handicap preference seating on the lower level.
--D
That's a fact. The sleepers on the Capitol Limited, the Empire Builder, the Coast Starlight, and the California Zephyr are all bilevel cars with very low entries, and "platforms" in Washington, Chicago, Seattle, Emeryville, Sacramento, and Denver are correspondingly low. I guess the coaches are the same, but on those trains I've only traveled in sleeper. ::)
I believe the heights of the platforms were kept low at the time of the building of the Chicago Union Station in the 1920's because of the consideration of the possible variations of passenger car construction. Considering the cost of raising the heights of the roofs covering the passenger platforms that were required when double deck cars came into use that may not have been a bad idea. John II.
Paul-
I've never seen freight platforms that were anything other than car floor height. It's one thing to have people walk up and down a few stairs; freight would obviously need to be carried which is dangerous and time consuming, and therefore expensive. I don't think I've ever seen boards used to bridge the gap between a freight car and a platform, or between freight cars, but I'm sure it happens. Usually there are steel bridges and I suppose those are nearly a requirement today since just about everything is moved on pallets by fork lifts.
-- D
Baggage platforms would have been heighted to allow for the carts that the baggage was placed on to load the cars. I agree that boards would not currently be safe to use if you are driving forklifts to load box cars by driving the forklifts into the cars . Some box cars are built to be unloaded from the side with all door sides with cargo palletized or on removable racks . Most cars on multiple parallel tracks would have boxcar doors aligned to allow loading multiple cars by bridging the gap with removable plates. John II.