Dear Bachmann
Are you planning on updating your HO Thomas, Percy and James models that you made back in 2002? There not too bad, it's just that the first three HO Thomas models you made have some flaws in them.
You HO Thomas, Percy and James model's has bodies that makes them look like there TV Series looks, but there are a few flaws in the first 3.
HO Thomas' the face isn't very TV Series accurate, which can be the same for your HO Percy and James models.
HO Percy doesn't have any windows at the back of his cab and doesn't have a dummy coupling hook at his back bumper beam.
HO James' Wheels are grey instead of black and the bottom part of James' smoke box is left Red.
Let's not forget that your HO Thomas, Percy and James models are all missing front couplings.
I apologize for bashing you or anything, it's just that I think your Large Scale versions of Thomas, Percy and James look better then your HO ones. Here are some differences between Thomas, Percy and James in your HO scale models and your Large Scale ones.
HO Thomas:
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101111190430/ttte/images/2/2f/BachmannThomas.jpg)
Large Scale Thomas:
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110930223913/ttte/images/7/7a/BachmannLargeScaleThomas.jpg)
HO Percy:
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100922092631/ttte/images/0/06/BachmannPercy.jpg)
Large Scale Percy:
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110930223753/ttte/images/0/01/BachmannLargeScalePercy.jpg)
HO James:
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111021200952/ttte/images/f/fd/BachmannJames.jpg)
Large Scale James:
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110128200856/ttte/images/f/fb/BachmannlargescaleJames.png)
I don't know if this can be call a request, I would like to see a big update on your HO Thomas, Percy and James models.
Yours truly, GTPS2
I think the faces were based on promotional art.
SnowflakeTH did a similar thread about this.
Quote from: ClearwtaerMK2 on May 15, 2012, 06:53:03 AM
SnowflakeTH did a similar thread about this.
And the more people doing these kinds of threads, suggestions, etc. shows HiTs marketing that more and more people want this kind of update.
Indeed.
It's very likely that all three locos were based heavily on the '3D' promo art from the time(I have some playing cards with that kind of promo art), instead of on the promotional pictures or any screenshots of the models from the show, and I think too that it is time the three first models got an update, as well as Annie, Clarabel, and maybe the two Troublesome Trucks.
Like SnowflakeTH said before, they have the plans and means to use the large-scale model's blueprints to update the HO/OO scale locos/stock, all they(Bachmann) have to do is do it. Especially to James. I mean, that engine is massive compared to the TV series model, or even to the CG model! He just towers over Gordon, and that spot by the smokebox.. but I digress.
I agree to this notion!
Just so you all know, there are only few changes in the large scale, and mostly because it larger, making it easier too add that little more detail.
Here are the 3 I found:
- faces(granted that's a nice change to have)
- open cab, definitely not possible for ho scale
- colored front and back hooks
Unfortunately there are not enough differences to make a whole design and assembly line instructions for those 3 or 4 changes. -Tanner
You're completely missing the point. Part of an "Update" includes front couplers, and new, reliable chassis' that compare to Diesel, Donald, and Douglas.
To add, Percys HO chassis design is entirely wrong, Thomas and Percy both suffer from having their boiler bands stick out too much (which on the actual show models, lack boiler bands on Percy and are instead just painted on), Percys cab windows are entirely non-existant, James has many paint errors that everyone knows by now, inaccurate lantern designs, cheaper whistle molds (whistle molds began to get better starting with Edward), funnels lack the connecting curve to the smoke box, the lack of gap above Thomas's splasher, James' more rounded boiler which ends closer to the splashers (which isn't so on the LS model and TV series), all three engines lack front couplers as said before, and all three have poor hauling chassis' that don't compare at all to the newer Bachmann engines.
I'm sure there's a few other details I'm overlooking too.
All of the detail added to the Large Scale engines is completely possible in HO by today standards. There's a lot of differences between the Large Scale and HO range, the differences are subtle though, yet make a big difference in the overall result.
With a new chassis for the three engines, also means that the interior can be entirely redone to make maintenance on the locomotives like oiling wheels, or taking apart the engine much more user friendly. It's an opportunity I wouldn't want to see missed.
Open cabs are entirely possible for HO/OO scale, it hasn't been done for the Thomas range though. Bachmann UKs own 57xx model has one:
(http://www.modelrailforum.com/reviews/Bachmann-Pannier/DSCF2387-800.jpg)
(http://www.ehattons.com/images/products/R382_1.JPG)
Even the Hornby Duck has an open cab.
(http://railroad-line.com/forum/data/tommatthews/200956174010_dapol51241.jpg)
(http://www.oliviastrains.com/userfiles/image/December_2010/448/32635.jpg)
Same case with the Dapol Pug and Hornby (ex Dapol) Terrier
It's not a matter of possibility, it's just a matter of if it's something Bachmann wants to put onto their tank engines. Henry, Gordon, Edward, Spencer, Emily, Donald and Douglas already have open cabs.
The unreliable, annoying to disassemble chassis should be enough reason for Bachmann to redo the models to give the public one that is truly representative of their new products. Bachmann has it in them.
If people want these revisions to happen, then demand needs to increase, because money talks. When I mean revisions, I imagine entirely new HO/OO models of Thomas, Percy and James that are more representative of the characters, like the Large scale models are. Putting down and dismissing the possibility isn't going to help.
Look, Im as much hoping for an update to happen as you are, but looking at this from a realistic standpoint, its not going to happen. Have you notices the engines with no open cab are the short engines who need the space for their motors (i.e.: Bill and Ben, Diesel) , and then you expect them to make the motor stronger? Im sticking up for Bachmann on this one. You must realize that these updates you say are contradictory of each other. As for the paint changes, I am sticking to the fact that the updates would not be beneficial from a selling standpoint. Even if they did have an open cab, and granted, your right that Duck has an open cab, and is only slightly larger, it would raise the cost of the engine substantially because they would need people to cut the molds and buy more detailed molds. As for James, the wheels not painted black has (probably) been because people would be needed to paint the mold, or dip the mold in paint.
Most changes are not economically smart to do. Just my opinion.
-Tanner
Eh, I'm sorta sittin' on the fence between this. :-\
Quote from: SodorAdventures on May 15, 2012, 09:57:42 PM
Look, Im as much hoping for an update to happen as you are, but looking at this from a realistic standpoint, its not going to happen. Have you notices the engines with no open cab are the short engines who need the space for their motors (i.e.: Bill and Ben, Diesel) , and then you expect them to make the motor stronger? Im sticking up for Bachmann on this one. You must realize that these updates you say are contradictory of each other. As for the paint changes, I am sticking to the fact that the updates would not be beneficial from a selling standpoint. Even if they did have an open cab, and granted, your right that Duck has an open cab, and is only slightly larger, it would raise the cost of the engine substantially because they would need people to cut the molds and buy more detailed molds. As for James, the wheels not painted black has (probably) been because people would be needed to paint the mold, or dip the mold in paint.
Most changes are not economically smart to do. Just my opinion.
-Tanner
Changes Take N Play, Track Master, etc. do out of the wazoo are not economically smart? Leokimvideo has shown that there's an insane amount of different Thomas' just in the Take N Play range. Even Hornby has changed their Thomas' face a few times, and Percys mold got updated at one point to hide the ex-wind up parts.
Sure it costs cheaper to make those toys, but they've constantly done revisions so much that by now the development cost for all those revisions surely compares to the development of a Bachmann model revision.
You're saying they're contradictory, but not explaining why, yet I explain that if people are demanding newer versions of Thomas, Percy, and James, then that shows there's people demanding a product. If the market is made aware of new versions of Thomas, Percy and James, then it influences people to buy the newer versions, even those who have the current Thomas, Percy and James will surely want one that has a better hauling power and more accurate to the show!
You keep focusing on this one little cab thing, but not focus on my main points, such as a powerful efficient chassis. An open cab is such a small minor, optional point that I only brought out other examples because you said it wasn't possible to do in OO. I didn't even assume that they would have an open cab in OO, since no other non-tender engines have, until you brought up the possibility. It'd be nice, designing a mold with an open cab isn't hard to do, since some engines in the range already do (but their cabs are "closed" by a separate covering to hide the chassis). Focus on the bigger picture here, please. I'm not here to worry about cabs, I'm wanting efficient, more accurate models.
As for new motors, of course! I'm hoping for entirely new models of Thomas, Percy and James done with the Large Scale tooling tooled down, and a newly designed chassis for OO/HO track. You're pointing out the obvious. Revisions means an entirely new, revised model of Thomas, Percy and James that takes nothing from its previous versions.
And yes, they're already painting most of the mold on James. They do it for Edward, Henry, Gordon, etc. There's nothing that makes James some sort of special "complicated" engine that can't be painted accurately.
If you want an update too, then why are you trying to bring out reasons for it to NOT happen? If you
want them, then show support for this. If you don't want them to, give Bachmann plenty more reasons to consider not giving us revisions.
To add, HiT has been pushing for CGI to be in the HO/OO range, and what would be a better way to start it off than by redoing Thomas, Percy and James to be in their CGI designs?
There are no plans to update these items.
That's.....sad. :(
not really because thay r just toys ::)
but im selling all my ho engines and getting the g gauge 1s coz my garden is big and im making brendam docks with cranky and tidmouth sheds and a very long express line 4 the engines
Quote from: Yardmaster on May 16, 2012, 08:28:35 AM
There are no plans to update these items.
Thanks for the info! It would be nice if someday that could change.
Quote from: Yardmaster on May 16, 2012, 08:28:35 AM
There are no plans to update these items.
No plans at this time or none at all?
Quote from: gwr duck on May 16, 2012, 09:05:36 AM
not really because thay r just toys ::)
but im selling all my ho engines and getting the g gauge 1s coz my garden is big and im making brendam docks with cranky and tidmouth sheds and a very long express line 4 the engines
A Tidmouth sheds hasn't been manufactured for the G scale range, so I assume you are getting a real one. The trackmaster Cranky would probably work. Just warning you, this range is very expensive.
Quote from: ClearwtaerMK2 on May 16, 2012, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: Yardmaster on May 16, 2012, 08:28:35 AM
There are no plans to update these items.
No plans at this time or none at all?
I'd assume no plans means HiTs Marketing has not brought it up to Bachmann to make any revisions, thus it has not been on their minds beyond the occasional time they hear it from us on the forum.
I imagine most products we want Bachmann hasn't considered unless HiT has brought it to the table as well.
This means they're probably at least planning on other engines for now, which right now the most likely candidates seem to be Oliver, or Arry & Bert
Quote from: Sparks on May 16, 2012, 04:41:37 PM
I'd assume no plans means HiTs Marketing has not brought it up to Bachmann to make any revisions, thus it has not been on their minds beyond the occasional time they hear it from us on the forum.
I imagine most products we want Bachmann hasn't considered unless HiT has brought it to the table as well.
This means they're probably at least planning on other engines for now, which right now the most likely candidates seem to be Oliver, or Arry & Bert
I spoke to Mr. Harrington, The General Manager, at Bachmann via email for a short interview about how they make their new products for a school project back in January. I thought then i might ask some questions about the Thomas range. here is part of the email with questions about the T&F range:
Q: What goes into deciding on a new Thomas and Friends product? Does HiT Entertainment decide or do you decide on which character(s) to make?
A: We decide. We get input from our customers and have product meetings to decide new characters. They have only asked us to make one product - Tidmouth Sheds.
Q: Say you want to come out with the character Oliver, for the Thomas range, does HiT have to send you images of Oliver so you know the proportions of him and what details to put on said character?
A: Hit gives us tons of information and must approve the design and final model. There are several steps for this approval process.
So HiT has no input of what bachmann has to make, we do. HiT only approves the model.
Quote from: Yardmaster on May 16, 2012, 08:28:35 AM
There are no plans to update these items.
Ok, thanks for the updates!
Yeah Bachmann, I think keepinng away from these update for now is a smart idea. Just my opinion.
:) I think this thread can run down now, as we have seen our answer.
Quote from: Anthony P2 on May 16, 2012, 06:27:33 PM
Quote from: Sparks on May 16, 2012, 04:41:37 PM
I'd assume no plans means HiTs Marketing has not brought it up to Bachmann to make any revisions, thus it has not been on their minds beyond the occasional time they hear it from us on the forum.
I imagine most products we want Bachmann hasn't considered unless HiT has brought it to the table as well.
This means they're probably at least planning on other engines for now, which right now the most likely candidates seem to be Oliver, or Arry & Bert
I spoke to Mr. Harrington, The General Manager, at Bachmann via email for a short interview about how they make their new products for a school project back in January. I thought then i might ask some questions about the Thomas range. here is part of the email with questions about the T&F range:
Q: What goes into deciding on a new Thomas and Friends product? Does HiT Entertainment decide or do you decide on which character(s) to make?
A: We decide. We get input from our customers and have product meetings to decide new characters. They have only asked us to make one product - Tidmouth Sheds.
Q: Say you want to come out with the character Oliver, for the Thomas range, does HiT have to send you images of Oliver so you know the proportions of him and what details to put on said character?
A: Hit gives us tons of information and must approve the design and final model. There are several steps for this approval process.
So HiT has no input of what bachmann has to make, we do. HiT only approves the model.
Um, we are a very small percent of bachmanns team of designers, so we just help them from what we say about what comes out.
Quote from: Anthony P2 on May 16, 2012, 06:27:33 PM
Quote from: Sparks on May 16, 2012, 04:41:37 PM
I'd assume no plans means HiTs Marketing has not brought it up to Bachmann to make any revisions, thus it has not been on their minds beyond the occasional time they hear it from us on the forum.
I imagine most products we want Bachmann hasn't considered unless HiT has brought it to the table as well.
This means they're probably at least planning on other engines for now, which right now the most likely candidates seem to be Oliver, or Arry & Bert
I spoke to Mr. Harrington, The General Manager, at Bachmann via email for a short interview about how they make their new products for a school project back in January. I thought then i might ask some questions about the Thomas range. here is part of the email with questions about the T&F range:
Q: What goes into deciding on a new Thomas and Friends product? Does HiT Entertainment decide or do you decide on which character(s) to make?
A: We decide. We get input from our customers and have product meetings to decide new characters. They have only asked us to make one product - Tidmouth Sheds.
Q: Say you want to come out with the character Oliver, for the Thomas range, does HiT have to send you images of Oliver so you know the proportions of him and what details to put on said character?
A: Hit gives us tons of information and must approve the design and final model. There are several steps for this approval process.
So HiT has no input of what bachmann has to make, we do. HiT only approves the model.
That's interesting. It makes sense since we're (as in anyone who pays attention to the Bachmann Thomas range, from SIF, to here, to Youtube, etc.) the only people demanding specific products. Nice find!
Quote from: SodorAdventures on May 16, 2012, 06:30:17 PM
Um, we are a very small percent of bachmanns team of designers, so we just help them from what we say about what comes out.
not really. how about all the other Thomas fans beyond this message board. We, (like Sparks said) the message board, SiF, youtube, do get a word in to what should be next in the Thomas range, because we pay attention to the range more than little kids do. Bachmann is the one that turns to us and say "which one's next?" This makes Bachmann a great company because they listen to the consumers. high demand for a specific engine ( be it in regular product range or Thomas) makes the consumer coming back for more. happy customers = profit for Bachmann.
Now at least we know what we say here really matters. thanks for that.
Quote from: Calebtrain on May 16, 2012, 04:30:42 PM
Quote from: gwr duck on May 16, 2012, 09:05:36 AM
not really because thay r just toys ::)
but im selling all my ho engines and getting the g gauge 1s coz my garden is big and im making brendam docks with cranky and tidmouth sheds and a very long express line 4 the engines
A Tidmouth sheds hasn't been manufactured for the G scale range, so I assume you are getting a real one. The trackmaster Cranky would probably work. Just warning you, this range is very expensive.
yes i am building tidmouth my self and cranky is gonna be made by my uncle who makes model kits with metel
and i have no worrys about cost as my family r paid well ;) ive already got 6 annie and clarabels and 8 tar milk 10 coal wagons
How can you actually afford some large scale stuff?
Quote from: Anthony P2 on May 16, 2012, 10:32:44 PM
Quote from: SodorAdventures on May 16, 2012, 06:30:17 PM
Um, we are a very small percent of bachmanns team of designers, so we just help them from what we say about what comes out.
not really. how about all the other Thomas fans beyond this message board. We, (like Sparks said) the message board, SiF, youtube, do get a word in to what should be next in the Thomas range, because we pay attention to the range more than little kids do. Bachmann is the one that turns to us and say "which one's next?" This makes Bachmann a great company because they listen to the consumers. high demand for a specific engine ( be it in regular product range or Thomas) makes the consumer coming back for more. happy customers = profit for Bachmann.
Yep, and I think someday if there's enough fan demand, we might get those revisions. It seems to be an increasing item people want. It would be great to have Thomas, Percy, and James up to the modern standards of Bachmann models, rather than something that underachieves. The Large Scale James is pretty just as accurate as the Tomix James is to the TV series, but with the CGI face. I'd love to have that full accuracy in OO, and it seems like a lot of fans are willing to pay for new models too. Bringing them up to modern standards would benefit modelers in the long run. :) It's one of the reasons I don't want to buy a new Percy or James; their chassis' are weak, have no front coupler, and have other inaccuracies I don't have the tools to fix.
Quote from: ClearwtaerMK2 on May 17, 2012, 08:22:27 PM
How can you actually afford some large scale stuff?
He said he sold his HO stuff.
Quote from: Sparks on May 17, 2012, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: Anthony P2 on May 16, 2012, 10:32:44 PM
Quote from: SodorAdventures on May 16, 2012, 06:30:17 PM
Um, we are a very small percent of bachmanns team of designers, so we just help them from what we say about what comes out.
not really. how about all the other Thomas fans beyond this message board. We, (like Sparks said) the message board, SiF, youtube, do get a word in to what should be next in the Thomas range, because we pay attention to the range more than little kids do. Bachmann is the one that turns to us and say "which one's next?" This makes Bachmann a great company because they listen to the consumers. high demand for a specific engine ( be it in regular product range or Thomas) makes the consumer coming back for more. happy customers = profit for Bachmann.
Yep, and I think someday if there's enough fan demand, we might get those revisions. It seems to be an increasing item people want. It would be great to have Thomas, Percy, and James up to the modern standards of Bachmann models, rather than something that underachieves. The Large Scale James is pretty just as accurate as the Tomix James is to the TV series, but with the CGI face. I'd love to have that full accuracy in OO, and it seems like a lot of fans are willing to pay for new models too. Bringing them up to modern standards would benefit modelers in the long run. :) It's one of the reasons I don't want to buy a new Percy or James; their chassis' are weak, have no front coupler, and have other inaccuracies I don't have the tools to fix.
I'm willing! :)
Quote from: Sparks on May 16, 2012, 04:41:37 PM
Quote from: ClearwtaerMK2 on May 16, 2012, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: Yardmaster on May 16, 2012, 08:28:35 AM
There are no plans to update these items.
No plans at this time or none at all?
I'd assume no plans means HiTs Marketing has not brought it up to Bachmann to make any revisions, thus it has not been on their minds beyond the occasional time they hear it from us on the forum.
I imagine most products we want Bachmann hasn't considered unless HiT has brought it to the table as well.
This means they're probably at least planning on other engines for now, which right now the most likely candidates seem to be Oliver, or Arry & Bert
I guess I'll just redesign those three my self.
delete
How do I get into contact with Mr Harrington if I want to ask a few questions?
Quote from: hornbyfan on May 19, 2012, 03:22:02 PM
How do I get into contact with Mr Harrington if I want to ask a few questions?
I don't feel safe giving out his email, plus i don't think Mr. Harrington would like me giving it out to people. sorry.
That's all right.
But how did you get it in the first place?
I almost started buying bachmann HO thomas today.
that was until I noticed Thomas, Percy & James do not have front coupler.
They are the 3 main ones.
Please update with front couplers and new faces then i will buy. :P
it might be a while be for they update them. :P sorry
The hook and loop couplers can be bought separately, and easily added to the front of the locomotive. If you don't have a spare Hornby Thomas face (most don't), you can mold one out of clay. Besides, the face technically is based on some promo art for the franchise. While I agree it is not a face I love, I think, from what it's based on, is decent. Think of it this way, not everyone smiles the same way each time, call this a variation. :)
I'll probably just stick with the trackmaster version. ::)
I don't want another project.
Quote from: trainboy_4 on November 27, 2012, 08:42:13 AM
I'll probably just stick with the trackmaster version. ::)
I don't want another project.
I hate to say it, but even the 2012 trackmaster models are better then some of bachmann's :-\
and before anyone has a go at me, I know the major differences in companies and whatnot ::)
Then I don't understand what you mean. Better in terms of selection, quality? If you make a claim like that provide some details.
By what possible measure? The TrackMaster models are poorly scaled leaving the majority of the engines too squat and too long, they make a horrific noise as they screech around the rails, they have incorrect wheel arrangements to allow for ridculously tight curves and they break down very quickly!
They are toys. Good for their purpose but not in the same league as the BACHMANN models. Do you think otherwise, if so why?
I thought this thread was dead! ( no rhyming intended)s