Good Evening all,
Sad news......after 52 years of tourist operations, the East Broad Top Railroad will not be running any trains this year. Nothing has been said about this meaning never again, only this year of 2012. Hopefully, anyone with more info may tack onto what I have said here. Very sad.
The official announcement can be found here: http://www.ebtrr.com/ (http://www.ebtrr.com/)
Apparently there are issues with either renewing the lease, or buying the line outright.
Len
Bob,
Sorry to hear this as I know how fond you were of the EBT. Hope everything works out for them in the next coming year.
Jerry
That is too bad.
Maybe the problem can be resolved by the Coal Company finding another operator, or by taking over the railroad operations themselves. This is not a unique situation among tourists railroads, and can usually be resolved if the owners are truly interested in keeping the line open.
For now, the most important thing is to preserve the property, power, and rolling stock so operations can be restarted without requiring a major investment or rebuilding.
From the wording of the announcement in the link, the owners are keenly aware of the historical importance of the railroad and its public relations value I think this little railroad is a national treasure.
Les
This is only hearsay, however, from what I have heard through the years, living in Central PA, it always seemed to me the owners had a somewhat inflated value in mind of what the railroad and related facilities were worth in cold hard cash. I have heard the federal government did once make a reasonable offer to buy the railroad and turn it into a national park--they were allegedly turned down--and PA got Steamtown instead, built essentially from the ground up, as not much was left in Scranton from that era. Building Steamtown from the ground up has always seemed somewhat ludicrous to many of us living in PA...though we do enjoy it...at least some of us.
As I read the announcement, my takeaway is that no purchase offer acceptable to the owners was made.
Perhaps another team will succeed in purchasing and preserving the line?
2-8-8-4,
Scroll up to the first response to my post and click on the link provided. After reading it, if you can read between the lines, then good for you because the news for 2012 is quite direct.
Sad news, indeed. What a shame. :(
A visit to Orbisonia will still be worthwile this year, even without the steam train. There will be tours offered of the yard complex, and the RTY trolleys will still be operating. FEBT continues is restoration program on several fronts. One notable new accomplishment is the stabilization of the blacksmith shop, which has been leaning badly for a number of years.
I did read the link, and it does clearly say that after lots of discussions no arrangement could be made. I have to agree with Len.
Since the EBT Preservation Association was evidently leasing the railroad with an option to buy, it seems pretty crystal clear to me that whatever offer(s) might have been made to either A. buy the railroad outright or B. continue leasing/operating the line for this year was not acceptable to the owners.
Is the East Broad Top operated mainly by volunteers, like most of the hundred or so "heritage" railways in the UK or is it run entirely by paid staff?
UK "heritage" railway raise literally millions of pounds/dollars for major projects, why can't the U.S. of A with its millions more in population and being supposedly the richest country on earth, do the same thing?
The East Broad Top is a treasure and should be treated as such.
Quote from: rogertra on May 22, 2012, 12:48:17 PM
Is the East Broad Top operated mainly by volunteers, like most of the hundred or so "heritage" railways in the UK or is it run entirely by paid staff?
UK "heritage" railway raise literally millions of pounds/dollars for major projects, why can't the U.S. of A with its millions more in population and being supposedly the richest country on earth, do the same thing?
The East Broad Top is a treasure and should be treated as such.
Are those millions of pounds in private donations or taxes? I'm presuming you mean private monies, but I want to be clear.
We Yanks in general don't have as great an appreciation for history as you Brits. Perhaps we also don't have as great a sense of public spirit. There are so many more of us than there are of you Brits that we always expect someone else to do it. History is treated as a branch of the entertainment industry here, too; try convincing someone who has no interest in trains to contribute--or someone who lives thousands of miles away in a state that won't raise taxes even for decent schools for their own children to contribute to a dinky little narrow-gauge steam railroad here in Pennsylvania.
I'm sure there are other reasons, too, but that should give you some idea to get started.
It is a national treasure. It is also a mining company's private property.
It appears to me that the company is aware of the historical significance and public appeal of the EBT. While the company owes nothing to the public, it makes sense from a PR and community support standpoint for this railroad to remain in operation. No doubt there are individuals and business who's livelihood is linked to the operation of the railroad, even as a tourist attraction. It looks like it would be in everyone's interest to keep this thing going.
If I understand the situation correctly, the mining company owns the railroad in its entirety. The railroad was operated by a separate group contracted by the mining company to do so. For whatever reason, that arrangement is no longer agreeable to the owner. It also looks like the operator made an offer to buy the railroad that was unsatisfactory to the owner.
If that is the case, the owner can either renegotiate the contract with the operator, or look for another operator. Or, he can operate the property himself with his own employees.
Or, he can attempt to sell the property to another buyer who can meet the asking price. None of these options are new in the tourist train industry.
The final option would be to simply abandon the railroad and concentrate on mining.
The rolling stock and locomotives, parts supply, shop equipment, etc. could be sold to another narrow-gauge operation. Or, the equipment could be donated to a non-profit museum and a tax deduction taken. In no case can I see the equipment cut up for scrap.
Les
Quote from: Desertdweller on May 22, 2012, 03:12:44 PM
Or, he can attempt to sell the property to another buyer who can meet the asking price. None of these options are new in the tourist train industry.
I wonder whether the private individuals who own the Durango & Silverton and two (?) other tourist railroads would be interested?
Tell you what, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's what ends up happening.
Let's clear a few things up here. The EBT is owned by the Kovalchick family. It was acquired by Nick in 1956 along with all of the mining properties when the whole operation was shut down by Rockhill Coal Co. Nick reopened a short stretch of the line in 1960 at the request of the town of Orbisonia which was celebrating its bicentennial. Nick died in the 1970's and son Joe took over and continued running the tourist operation, which he did until executing the lease deal with the EBTPA three years ago. In those 50 plus years a lot of the assests of the old mining company were sold off, such as most all the former company houses in Robertsdale and Woodvale. The company still owns most of the land, and has leased some for strip mining. There is paid staff (some are seasonal) to operate the tourist service. The operations are also supported to some extent by volunteers from the trolley museum and FEBT. FEBT is embarked on a number of preservation projects, including the machine shop building, the blacksmith shop, restoration of a hopper car and (in progress) one of the combine cars, along with the former Robertsdale Post Office and EBT depot. Other volunteers under the auspices of the Broad Top Coal Miner's Museum have been clearing right-of-way between Robertsdale and Woodvale with a possible view to running some kind of trips on that end of the line.
Sorry to hear that East Broad Top may not run this year. Am I correct in saying that EBT is a narrow gauge railroad (track less then 4 ft. 8.5 in. apart)?
I have always wanted to get up to EBT area. Let's hope that EBT opens again and runs trains.
Maybe I can make it to Jim Thorpe PA sometime in the next two years, and see the regional railroad that operates over there, the Reading & Northern RR.
Lee F.
Just as a matter of information...........the UK has a national lottery.........some of those funds are earmarked for heritage preservation. I'm sure the rest of the money comes from other sources. Steam in the UK is becoming very popular. They just don't only restore but actually build new. I'll be going over there in the next year our 2 and am already making a list of which lines I want to visit. There are some great narrow gauge lines.
Kevin
it should be noted that part of what makes the ebt unique is that the parts of the railroad not operated exist intact for the most part. there are lines of cars in mount union sitting there since the day the railroad shut down. the kovalchiks are scrap dealers, but for some reason they never scrapped the railroad or its equipment. there are literally hundreds of hopper cars rusting away in the weeds along the line.
Quote from: phillyreading on May 22, 2012, 05:49:35 PM
Am I correct in saying that EBT is a narrow gauge railroad (track less then 4 ft. 8.5 in. apart)?
Yes, it is--3-ft. gauge. Until now, anyway, it was the last operating line of that type east of Colorado.
As Jeff said, there are many cars rusting away. To me, it looks like a lot of them could not be repaired economically. Sad to see them in that condition. They are there for anyone to climb all over them. The easy access makes EBT appealing. Easy to pilfer, too.
After seeing what goes into a passenger coach restoration at Strasburg, it seems to me that EBT probably does not have the money nor volunteers to do the work.
To Bob, What is your opinion about EBT returning to operations?
Thanks a million!
Jack
Jack,
I can only hope that next year will bring a return to service. I fear that haggling over money will doom the railroad. There are several rumors out there which I will not be a part of and hope that thinking people involved with the ownership and operation of the railroad will be successful in moving into 2013 with an operations plan. BUT.....like ebtnut said, the trolley group is still there and the FEBT continues to work on the buildings, so get out there and see what is going on.
Is it a private, for profit company that ran the steam or was it non-profit society?
my understanding is that the railroad is owned by a private company. in this case it was the scrapper that bought the line when it shut down with the intention of scrapping it. the railroad was operated by a non profit group with the owner's permission.
There was some comparison earlier between how railroad/railway heritage organisations work in the UK and US. From what I read of it at their website, I think the Wiscasset, Waterville & Farmington Railway Museum http://www.wwfry.org/aboutus/museum.html is very close to the typical UK preserved railway/heritage organisation. One difference would be that while the WWF claims to be wholly volunteer run, most UK RRs, depending on size, would have some paid full-time or seasonal staff, particularly at the very top end of management and on the engineering side.
The local papers said it shut down due to safety issues, and they also said there is someone trying to buy it, but they haven't come up with the funds to purchase it outright, and they have til the end of the year to do so, if not, it's hard to tell what will happen to EBT. Personally, I think the current owners have no idea how to run a railroad. The lack of repairs from the time they have owned it until now is disturbing.
The EBT owner has been operating the railroad for 49 of the last 52 years. They have put hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of $$ into keeping the EBT up and running. All that money has come out of their pockets, so routine maintenance sometimes took a back seat to keeping the trains going. One recent problem has been the new FRA maintenance rules for steam locos. Mike No. 14 is technically operable, but the FRA would not give the EBT a waiver for emergency use in case No. 15 broke down, so 14 has to go through the whole Form 4 shopping. Note that I fully support the FRA rules, having witnessed the boiler failure of No. 1278 on the Gettysburg RR back in the 1990's. Nos. 12 and 17, the other two locos that had been used in the past, both need significant work to run again. Friends of the EBT has been doing great work on restoring the shop buildings, including the recent leveling of the blacksmith shop (with money support from the owner). There are private negotiations that have been under way between the owner and the recent lessor which we are not privy to. We will have to wait and see what happens.
A somewhat parallel example is the Oahu Railway on Oahu. When I was stationed at Wheeler field in the sixties, the remains of three-foot track swere still apparent across the taxiway, and there was a locomotive on display in Haliewa. The remnants that were operating were in Honolulu, mostly for the canneries and the docks; the cars were moved about by what looked like an old GE 44-tonner that had been "diminunized" to three feet betwixt the fences.
What I didn't know at the time was that on the Big Island, there was another narrow-gauge railroad, and I missed out on that one.
Rich C.
Good Morning All,
EWK mentioned the Oahu Railroad in Hawaii. If anyone is interested, there is a four book set, soft back, called the Hawaiian Railway Album, written by Gale E. Treiber. It has WWII photographes by Victor Norton, Jr.
Considering the fact that the railroads that existed on an island, there was an amazing assortmant of equipment.
The set is a worthy addition to your railroad book collection. It is available thru The Railroad Press, PO Box 444, Hanover, Pa 17331-0444
Roger that, Bob. Will get there with the boys! They like the trolley ride and the smaller stuff.
Found this in the Trains.com, Steam & Preservation forum.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/208137.aspx
Rich