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Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: bigjoe11a on June 27, 2012, 09:01:53 AM



Title: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on June 27, 2012, 09:01:53 AM
I wanted to add street lights to my layout. Its just that the ones I find on ebay tell me not to run then any more then 30 minutes or they will melt. If this is the case. How can other layouts I have seen can run lighting all night long.

Is there street lighting that I can run longer then 30 minutes or all night long that don't cost an arm and leg and won't melt.

Joe


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Jhanecker2 on June 27, 2012, 09:59:33 AM
The most modern street lights are lamped with LED s , many people run their lights  in series  to reduce the amount of power each lamp  consumes.  Check out the current  Walters Reference Catalog  in their lighting section  for lighting.  J2.


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Doneldon on June 27, 2012, 01:43:50 PM
bj-

Did I really call you that?

Most hobby LEDs run at 4.5 volts and about 20 ma. At that rate, you can probably run one for a couple of years for a penny. Even with dozens of street lights, structure lights, animations, etc., you won't notice an effect on your electric bill. Indeed, your motors, which consume very little current themselves currently (sorry), will actually be the big electricity consumers on your pike. Unless you're building a monster layout which will be operating many hours daily, power consumption is inconsequential. I'd bet that all of the power we use on standard home layouts in a lifetime, at least with smaller gauges, costs less than a simple diesel locomotive model. (Would someone like to do the math on that? I'm too lazy.)
                                                                                                                                                         -- D


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on June 27, 2012, 01:49:32 PM
Ok, so what you guys are saying that the more lights lights I run. The longer I can run them. The other thing I did read was that the lighting I been looking at supports 6 volts. and the power pack puts out 16 volts. will this be a problem. Sense I'm sending 16 volts threw the wires any way.

Joe


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: jward on June 27, 2012, 01:55:21 PM
here are two things to look for:

1. brass rather than plastic construction. if you can get brass to melt with your light bulbs, you've got more to worry about than just your streeet lights.

2. led's rather than bulbs. i won't buy a signal with bulbs anymore. led's consume less power, produce almost no heat, and last almost forever. ever try to change a small bulb in a streetlight or signal? i have and it is a royal pain.



Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on June 27, 2012, 02:09:27 PM
Ok, can you tell me where I can buy street lights that are brass a LED. at a good price. Thanks again

Joe


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: jward on June 27, 2012, 03:02:38 PM
look at www.walthers.com for tomar and nj international. this will give you an idea what is out there. then you can search for those items that interest you online. the walthers site will list the items at msrp.


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Doneldon on June 27, 2012, 04:29:46 PM
bj-

Good Lord! I did it again. Have I no shame?

You don't need brass if you have LEDs as they produce virtually no heat (the factor which makes them so efficient compared to other lights, even fluorescent). Brass signals, like the Tomar signals mentioned by Jeff Ward, are very expensive, more so if they reflect the circumstances on your layout, and more yet again if they actually control your trains. However, you specifically mentioned street lights.

There are some Chinese sellers on ebay who have spectacular prices on streetlights (and similar merchandise but no train control fixtures the last time I looked) and who are reliable sellers, based on my experience with them. If the idea of buying items manufactured in China bothers you, well, you are out of luck. Virtually all of the merchandise sold by diversified manufacturers (Bachmann, Athearn, Model Power, Proto, etc.), and even many specialty manufacturers, is made in China or, increasingly, Korea.

I used to joke that I couldn't recall the last time I bought something not made in China, other than milk, bread and eggs. Well, guess what? It turns out that it's cheaper to produce eggs in China and ship them here in refrigeration than to feed chickens in Arkansas. The eggs we buy in the grocery stores are domestic but commercial eggs (mostly pre-shelled or dried) come from China. Think of that the next time you have a classic American favorite like chocolate cake!
                                                                                                                                                         -- D


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on June 27, 2012, 04:40:16 PM
bj-

Good Lord! I did it again. Have I no shame?

You don't need brass if you have LEDs as they produce virtually no heat (the factor which makes them so efficient compared to other lights, even fluorescent). Brass signals, like the Tomar signals mentioned by Jeff Ward, are very expensive, more so if they reflect the circumstances on your layout, and more yet again if they actually control your trains. However, you specifically mentioned street lights.

There are some Chinese sellers on ebay who have spectacular prices on streetlights (and similar merchandise but no train control fixtures the last time I looked) and who are reliable sellers, based on my experience with them. If the idea of buying items manufactured in China bothers you, well, you are out of luck. Virtually all of the merchandise sold by diversified manufacturers (Bachmann, Athearn, Model Power, Proto, etc.), and even many specialty manufacturers, is made in China or, increasingly, Korea.

I used to joke that I couldn't recall the last time I bought something not made in China, other than milk, bread and eggs. Well, guess what? It turns out that it's cheaper to produce eggs in China and ship them here in refrigeration than to feed chickens in Arkansas. The eggs we buy in the grocery stores are domestic but commercial eggs (mostly pre-shelled or dried) come from China. Think of that the next time you have a classic American favorite like chocolate cake!
                                                                                                                                                         -- D

Ok, do you know of a good seller. One that has good prices. I check the last post out and Yes. I can't a ford the prices. Maybe you can point me in the right direction. Thanks

Joe


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: richg on June 27, 2012, 05:09:59 PM
If it is not obvious, HO questions might be better in the HO forum.

I will lead you up to the below link. Look though the links yourself.

http://tinyurl.com/6uyu7e6

Rich


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Jerrys HO on June 27, 2012, 05:23:30 PM
big joe,

I don't know what Doneldon keeps doing but I won't copy him. ;D

Here is what I believe Big D was trying to tell you to look at....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T25-30-pcs-Model-street-lights-75mm-white-light-LED-12V-model-lamppost-lamp-/120919690721?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c27600de1#ht_843wt_754

LED's are the best for lighting nay plastic or wooden structure's on your layout. If you do a search on this forum there is a lot of info you can read up on.

Jerry


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on June 27, 2012, 05:24:31 PM
Thank you very much. That helps. I fount what I was looking for. I Hope. I'll have to call them and find out if it's what I'm looking for.



Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on June 27, 2012, 05:27:06 PM
big joe,

I don't know what Doneldon keeps doing but I won't copy him. ;D

Here is what I believe Big D was trying to tell you to look at....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T25-30-pcs-Model-street-lights-75mm-white-light-LED-12V-model-lamppost-lamp-/120919690721?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c27600de1#ht_843wt_754

LED's are the best for lighting nay plastic or wooden structure's on your layout. If you do a search on this forum there is a lot of info you can read up on.

Jerry

Thanks Jerry, How ever that's way too much. I'm still paying in the DCC Train set I got earlier last month. I mean $30.00 for street lights. WOW.



Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Jerrys HO on June 27, 2012, 05:34:38 PM
bj,

Quote
I fount what I was looking for. I Hope. I'll have to call them and find out if it's what I'm looking for.

I don't quite know what you are looking for but I use these for most of my structure's.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-25pc-3mm-Dia-Clear-Lens-LED-Bulb-White-light-/380432254220?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item589387850c#ht_1342wt_698

Radio Shack if there is one by you also carry an assortment of LED's

Jerry


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Doneldon on June 27, 2012, 11:01:12 PM
bj-

Oh, jeez ...

Jerry's post is a good place to start. If you read through the listing, the street lights are 3" tall, the equivalent of a roughly 22' street light. That's not for a freeway interchange, perhaps, but it should be just fine for a commercial or residential district. Also, do notice that most of the Chinese LEDs are already equipped to operate on 12 volts so you don't need to find a 4.5 volt power supply or use batteries.

You can find more items if you click on the link near the upper right corner which says see seller's other items. And, the small blue and red printing right above the picture shows the selection tree which led to the category where these lights are found. By clicking on the last item in this line you can move "up" a level and access what other sellers have in the same category (in this case HO model train scenery).

I wouldn't count on calling the seller; he's in China. Also, a dollar each for the lights is an excellent price, much cheaper than anything you'll find stateside. And he ships free! Of course, that's because the Chinese government makes it as easy and inexpensive as possible for Chinese merchants to sell to the US and the rest of the world.
                                                                                                        -- D


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on June 28, 2012, 05:35:57 PM
Ok, Guys, would any of these lamp post work.

http://stores.ebay.com/everydaygoodz/Model-Lampposts-12V-LED-/_i.html?_fsub=2697163017&_sid=603595097&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

They are all 12 volt and LED. Would I be able to run these longer then the other ones.




Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Jerrys HO on June 28, 2012, 05:57:55 PM
bj,

Gee Wiz (sorry), I see what you mean D...

Yes they will work. So you will know LED's last  almost forever compared to regular bulb's. If you are using them on a adjustable controller you can turn down the controller and they will last longer and create a mood lighting on your layout.

Jerry


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on June 28, 2012, 07:57:18 PM
bj,

Gee Wiz (sorry), I see what you mean D...

Yes they will work. So you will know LED's last  almost forever compared to regular bulb's. If you are using them on a adjustable controller you can turn down the controller and they will last longer and create a mood lighting on your layout.

Jerry

Well my question was can I run these longer than 30 minutes at a time. As long as they will work. and Thanks Guys.


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Jerrys HO on June 28, 2012, 08:30:09 PM
bj,

I have left mine on for almost a day while I was working on my layout.

Jerry


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on June 28, 2012, 08:51:59 PM
bj,

I have left mine on for almost a day while I was working on my layout.

Jerry

Thanks Jerry for your help. That's what I wanted to know.

Joe


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Doneldon on June 28, 2012, 09:26:10 PM
bj-

Nothing limits how long you can run these. LEDs produce virtually no heat so they won't damage anything except maybe ice. They are rated for 10,000 hour life so, at say four hours  day, they'll last seven years. Or ... two hours at a time two or three times a week, 40 years. Since the latter is much more like how often we run our trains, your LEDs are, effectively, a once in a lifetime purchase. Just think of the times you won't have to change bulbs!
                                                         -- D


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on June 28, 2012, 09:48:19 PM
bj-

Nothing limits how long you can run these. LEDs produce virtually no heat so they won't damage anything except maybe ice. They are rated for 10,000 hour life so, at say four hours  day, they'll last seven years. Or ... two hours at a time two or three times a week, 40 years. Since the latter is much more like how often we run our trains, your LEDs are, effectively, a once in a lifetime purchase. Just think of the times you won't have to change bulbs!
                                                         -- D


Thanks, How ever the problem started when all the street lights I was looking at says right in the description on ebay.com that you can't run them any longer then 30 minutes. As Jerry helped me to fix this problem. Thanks Jerry.



Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: railsider on June 29, 2012, 09:56:23 PM
I have LED nightlights that have glowed for years in the hallway of my house.
I have picked up several strings of LED tree lights (after-season half-price sales!) that I plan to use as interior city structure lighting. The orange LED strings, sold at Halloween, are especially good as building lights.

We're probably all waiting for LED-based streetlamps to become standard items. At 2-4 volts DC each, they could come in sets of 4 to 6 to run from a 12VDC wall-wart supply. The drawback for LED lighting is that (A) you have to run them on DC, and (B) they have to be polarized. You can't just hook 'em up to the 16VAC "Accessory" terminals and forget about them. But the advantages outweigh that: power consumption approximately zilch, once you invest in a wall-wart and plug system; replacement bulbs totally unnecessary, ever (that is, lifetime longer than the operator's!).

I would not be surprised to see longer strings of LED streetlamps, with wall-wart power supplies on the order of, say, 32VDC (a common electronic-equipment voltage) and about a dozen or 15 lamps in a string. Also, because of the incredibly low current, a single power supply should be able to run several such strings in parallel. They would need to have polarized plugs-and-jacks. but that should not be hard to do. I toss all this out there hoping that some manufacturer will pick it up, develop it and put it on the market for us all. Yes, of course I would be willing to volunteer to test them out!

Railsider


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: jward on June 30, 2012, 09:44:47 AM
led'ssre light emitting diodes. diodes by definition only pass current in one direction. non led diodes are commonly used to rectify ac to dc. i don't think running led's on ac would be a problem as long as the peak inverse voltage ratin is not exceeded. for most of the smaller led's i've seen spec sheets on, piv rating is usually around 35-50 volts.

some precautions with led's:

always use a dropping resistor with them. the resistor limits the forward current to the led and serves as protection to the led. even if you hook up several leds in series, you still want to use a resistor to limit current to the series.

led's have a minimum forward voltage.

once that threshold is reached the led turns on. if the threshold voltage is not reached, the led remains dark. miniscule increases in voltage to an led in the "on" state result in HUGE increases in the current through the diode. hooking up an led rated at say 1.5 volts to even a 2 volt power supply without a limiting resistor will cause the led to die with a beautiful white flash, no matter what colour the led is. NEVER test an led by placing its leads directly across the terminals of a power supply.

if your power supply is dc, and you have a resistor attatched to the led, it should ONLY light in one polarity. turning the led around should cause it to remain dark. thus if you wire your streetlights and they don't work, try swapping the leads around. on ac, it should light regardless. the led will be doing its job of passing current in one half of the ac cycle, and blocking it during the other. in the usa, this happens 60 times per second so you shouldn't notice a flicker.

in theory, if you run dcc you should be able to power them off the track power since they draw so little current. in practice, you'd only want to do that with a full dcc system. most starter systems have much lower current ratings, as low as one amp with ez command. it would only take maybe a half dozen leds or strings in parallel to use up 10% of that.


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Doneldon on June 30, 2012, 02:44:53 PM
Jeff-

The LED street lights he's looking at have integral resistors so all he has to do is connect to a suitable power supply.

                                                                                                                                                                 -- D


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Jim Banner on July 04, 2012, 09:51:12 PM
Just one more source of LED lamp posts that won't break the bank:
http://stores.ebay.com/everydaygoodz/Model-Lampposts-12V-LED-/_i.html?_fsub=2697163017&_sid=603595097&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322 (http://stores.ebay.com/everydaygoodz/Model-Lampposts-12V-LED-/_i.html?_fsub=2697163017&_sid=603595097&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322)

I have not dealt personally with this fellow but he has an excellent rating on eBay and has excellent prices on Led street lights, both in 12 volt and 6 volt versions.  At less than a dollar each, you would be hard put to build your own for the same price.  He also has some upscale lamp posts near the top of the same page.  Out of my price range, but these feature screw in LED's and the whole lamp post plugs into a socket hidden in the table top.

I don't know what Doneldon's problem is but your initials remind me of one of my favourite actors, Mike Farrell, and the character he played in M*A*S*H - B.J. Hunnicut.  I don't think we ever found out what B.J. stood for, but someone once suggested 'Beau Jest.'

Jim


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on July 05, 2012, 03:08:46 AM
Just one more source of LED lamp posts that won't break the bank:
http://stores.ebay.com/everydaygoodz/Model-Lampposts-12V-LED-/_i.html?_fsub=2697163017&_sid=603595097&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322 (http://stores.ebay.com/everydaygoodz/Model-Lampposts-12V-LED-/_i.html?_fsub=2697163017&_sid=603595097&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322)

I have not dealt personally with this fellow but he has an excellent rating on eBay and has excellent prices on Led street lights, both in 12 volt and 6 volt versions.  At less than a dollar each, you would be hard put to build your own for the same price.  He also has some upscale lamp posts near the top of the same page.  Out of my price range, but these feature screw in LED's and the whole lamp post plugs into a socket hidden in the table top.

I don't know what Doneldon's problem is but your initials remind me of one of my favourite actors, Mike Farrell, and the character he played in M*A*S*H - B.J. Hunnicut.  I don't think we ever found out what B.J. stood for, but someone once suggested 'Beau Jest.'

Jim

Hi! Jim and thank you. The link you posted is the ebay seller I did buy 12 lamp posts from. So thanks for the info and as for BJ. If you remember BJ didn't stand for any thing other then just BJ.


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on September 11, 2012, 10:54:23 PM
I wanted to see if any one mite be able to help on this again. I been trying to come up with an idea on how to mount this lights.

Here's the link of the street lights I got.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L005-10pcs-12V-LED-Scale-Model-Trains-Lampposts-Posts-HO-/300665265304?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item46010bdc98 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/L005-10pcs-12V-LED-Scale-Model-Trains-Lampposts-Posts-HO-/300665265304?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item46010bdc98)

The problem is when I drill a hole. The hole will have to be big enough for the wire and resistor to go threw. Well that means that the street light will not fit in this hole. So now what do I do. Remember that I'm using Styrofoam for my layout.

Joe




Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Doneldon on September 12, 2012, 04:40:50 AM
joe-

Glue a tube to the bottom of your lamppost. Run the wires through it, leaving them long enough that the resistor can remain below the bottom of the tube. This will make your tube much smaller in diameter and make it easy to mount the lights to the surface of your layout. You can use a little tacky glue to hold things in place but it will allow you to easily pull the light out should you need to do so.
                                                                                                                      -- D


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on September 12, 2012, 05:13:06 AM
Any idea on what kind of a tube to use. What size and so on. I mite have to research this.

Thanks
Joe


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: Doneldon on September 13, 2012, 01:29:05 AM
joe-

An eighth inch tube should be big enough to easily accept the wires, strong
enough to support the lights and small enough to be easy to mount.
                                                                                                     -- D


Title: Re: Lighting for HO Scale layouts
Post by: bigjoe11a on September 13, 2012, 02:56:49 AM
joe-

An eighth inch tube should be big enough to easily accept the wires, strong
enough to support the lights and small enough to be easy to mount.
                                                                                                     -- D


COOL. Thanks Don