Good evening everyone!!
Okay, a 0-4-0 is a four wheel switcher.
A 0-6-0 is a six wheel switcher.
A 0-8-0 is a eight wheel switcher.
And there are others, ad infinitum.
The following are names given to different wheel arrangements of steam locomotives over the years. I can guess where Hudson, Mountain, Niagra, Northern, Santa Fe, and Texas came from. I also understand why a 4-6-0 was called a ten wheeler.
But where or how did the names Atlantic, Baltic, Berkshire, Consolidation, Decapod, Greenbriar, Kanawha, Mastodon, Mikado, Mogul, Mohawk, Pacific, and Prarie originate? And did I miss any (nick) names?
I have been told, ( but am not sure), that the Mikado was first made in Japan, hence that name. Also, I am guessing that the 2-6-2 type was first used on the prairies, hence that name?
Most steam types were long gone ( except for those on static display, or saved for museum/preservation use ) by the time I was born in 1958 (dating myself here, LOL)
Thanks for any information all of the steam gurus can help me with.
Bob
But where or how did the names Atlantic, Baltic, Berkshire, Consolidation, Decapod, Greenbriar, Kanawha, Mastodon, Mikado, Mogul, Mohawk, Pacific, and Prarie originate? And did I miss any (nick) names?
Berkshire - the B&M developed the type to go over the Berkshire Mountains in western Mass.
Consolidation - first appeared on a railroad that grew from a consolidation of several NE railroads.
Decapod - ten feet (ten drivers)
Greenbriar - named for the C&O resort in West Virginia. No C&O locomotive would be called anything that came from the damyankees.
Kanawaha - from the Kanawaha River in west Virginia that the C&O mainline followed. Same reason as Greenbriar.
Mikado - first built FOR a Japanese railroad. In WWII there was an attempt to call them MacArthurs. Went the way of freedom fries today.
Mohawk - Mohawk River valley in New York.
Pacific - bigger than Atlantic.
Gene
Thanks, SteamGene. I appreciate the information.
I understand about the Pacific being larger than the Atlantic,( larger ocean, and larger wheel type), but I wonder why the locomotives were named that? I know that Atlantic and Pacific types were used nation wide, and not just on the Atlantic or Pacific coasts.I just continue to wonder how those names were arrived at. Thanks again for the other name information. Also, one other question, if I may: I read somewhere in the past, that the Kanawha type was spelled that way, and not Kanawaha. It may have been an early typo by the writer of the early article, and I plead my ignorance at said spelling. And I apologize if I have "upset" you by asking about the spelling of Kanawaha. Thanks again for all of the information, and I wish you a pleasant evening.
Bob
Hudson was first used by NYC along the Hudson river, Mountain because it was used in the mountains, northern was first used on the N.P. Santa first used on the Santa Fe. 2-10-4 first used on the T & P. 4-8-0s on most railroads that used them were known as twelve wheelers. Now for those railroads that wanted to put their own names on locomtive types. a lot of Santa men call the 2-10-4s Santa Fe type, as guess because they also had 10 drivers.
Thanks Ram for taking the time to reply. have a pleasant evening.
Bob
Over here in UK we also have our share of locomotive nick-names, some of which may be familiar -
Atlantic - a 4-4-2 wheel-arrangement, for no obvious reason.
Baltic - a 4-6-4 side-tank express train locomotive.
Pacific - the same as yours....
Saddle-tank - any small tank locomotive with the water tanks draped over the boiler.
Prairie - usually a side tank 2-6-2 here in UK, but not called that anywhere else, as far as I can determine.
Many of our old steamers are actually named after the Chief Mechanical Engineer of the road - Collett, Bulleid, Gresley,Johnson and so on or the first or most famous name of the class leader locomotive.
What we don't have are Hudson, mikado and all the place-name locomotives, quite simply becasue we either don't have that style of locomotive, or we don't recognise or associate the places with a locomotive type. We don't call 4-6-0 locos ten-wheelers, either.
tac
www.ovgrs.org
You are correct. The correct spelling is Kanawha.
Tom M
Also, one other question, if I may: I read somewhere in the past, that the Kanawha type was spelled that way, and not Kanawaha. It may have been an early typo by the writer of the early article, and I plead my ignorance at said spelling. And I apologize if I have "upset" you by asking about the spelling of Kanawaha.
Tac,
A Hudson and a Baltic are both 4-6-4s. In the U.S. only the Milwaukee Road, which actually had the plan first, called them Baltics. The NYC called them Hudsons and apparently produced them before the Road did.
I think I remember that the 4-4-2 got its name because the first railroad that used it had "Atlantic" in its name and the same is true for the Pacific. But what roads, I don't know. The 4-4-0 went by American Standard because there were so many of them, and that got shortened to "American."
The Big Boy was slatted to have a different name, but apparently some worker looked at it and said "That's a Big Boy," and his offhand remark stuck.
Gene
Some 4-8-4s were called Dixies and I believe some others were labelled Confederations. The original "legend" in re: the Big Boys is that when the first one was under construction someone wrote "Big Boy" on one of the front cylinder sets, and the name stuck.
Dear Mr Gene - you wrote - 'A Hudson and a Baltic are both 4-6-4s'.
Yes, thank you, I know that, but I live in the UK where we do not have Hudsons. The name 'Baltic' was only applied to TANK locomotives, as we never had a 4-6-4 locomotive with a tender in UK.
There is no reason why the Atlantic type loco should be so named here in UK. None of the lines that had this type of loco had any connection with the Atlantic.
The same goes for the Pacific, and we have a large number of them still in steam...in fact, the UK has more preserved, active and operational steam locomotives of all types than any other country in the world. ;D
tac
www.ovgrs.org
Dear Mr Gene - you wrote - 'A Hudson and a Baltic are both 4-6-4s'.
Yes, thank you, I know that, but I live in the UK where we do not have Hudsons. The name 'Baltic' was only applied to TANK locomotives, as we never had a 4-6-4 locomotive with a tender in UK.
There is no reason why the Atlantic type loco should be so named here in UK. None of the lines that had this type of loco had any connection with the Atlantic.
The same goes for the Pacific, and we have a large number of them still in steam...in fact, the UK has more preserved, active and operational steam locomotives of all types than any other country in the world. ;D
tac
www.ovgrs.org
Don't forget that a 4-4-0 is an American.
Good evening everyone !!
Tac: Thank you for the explanations you furnished on why steam locomotives are named the way they are in Great Britain. One other question I have: In Great Britain, wasn't there also a tank locomotive called a Pannier (spelling?) ?
Tom M: Thank you for the affirmation on how to spell Kanawha.
Virginian: You stated that some 4-8-4s' were called Dixies, and some other 4-8-4s' were labelled Confederations. Were these names for the 4-8-4s' on the same railroad, or from different railroads?
Thankyou to SteamGene, Tac, Tom M, Virginian, and woody Elmore for all of your gracious replies.
Hope everyone has a pleasant evening.
Bob
Bob,
The Northern, iirc, first appered on either the Great Northern or the Northern Pacific. However, in the railroads of the Confederacy, "Northern" was not an acceptable name. Each road found its own name: Greenbriar, Confederation, Dixie, etc. But all C&O J3s were Greenbriars.
Gene
Quote from: ATSF5700BOB on August 03, 2007, 08:31:52 PMTac: Thank you for the explanations you furnished on why steam locomotives are named the way they are in Great Britain. One other question I have: In Great Britain, wasn't there also a tank locomotive called a Pannier (spelling?) ?
Afternoon, Bob. You have the spelling correct, Sir. Here in UK the GWR [Great Western Railway] has a class of small tank 0-6-0 locomotive, nicknamed 'Pannier' because of the side tanks that 'hung' on the boiler like pannier bags, but square...
As I said, many locos here were named after their designer, like the Peckett and the Fairlie and Beyer-Garratt. Some even doubled up on names, like the Gresley and Stanier Pacifics and so on. The CME's of the various pre-nationalisation railways were VERY much individuals with very strong ideas about locomotive design. If you want to learn more then getting any of the many thousands of books on the various railways of the UK before 1948 would be a good read - I just googled UK railways and got over 890,000 hits!
tac
www.ovgrs.org
Then there are the Mallets, named for their French engineer inventor. I guess the name should be pronounced " Ma ley"
Gene
I have always heard mallets pronounced as mallies at least in the coalfields of WV and southwest VA. The proper French was not used but was Americanized. My Dad was a Virginian/N&W brakeman/conductor and worked on the various classes of USRA mallets owned by the Virginian. He also rode the class AE 2-10-10-2. He was also on different classes of C&O and N&W mallets where interchange with the Virginian took place.
Tom M
Then there are the Mallets, named for their French engineer inventor. I guess the name should be pronounced " Ma ley"
Glad your Dad wasn't on the 800 at Stewartsville that fateful night. My Great grandfather helped build the VGN, and my Grandfather worked for the VGN and N&W. They may have known each other.
As far as I know, each railroad only had one name for each class on their road.
Gene;
There was an engine wheel classification, 6-8-6 called a "Cheshire". Which road was this on and why that particular wheel arrangement?
Rich
Virginian
Good thing about Stewartsville. Dad started in 1947 and worked west of Roanoke on the New River Division. My Grandfather, Great Grandfather and Step Great Grandfather all worked for the Virginian so somebody in the family probably ran into some of your relatives.
Though not steam, one of the single unit squarehead electrics, no. 113, was called Clarabelle by the men. Always heard this was from Clarabelle the Clown from the Howdy Doody show.
Tom M
Rich,
I could be wrong, but the 6-8-6 may have been a C&O concept, class J-4, which was never built as C&O abandoned steam developement. It was either that or a 4-8-6. Why the six wheel pony truck, I don't know.
Gene
Tom;
By "Square-head Electrics" are you referring to the E-33s that the New Haven bought, reclassified them as EF-4s; and, with their bright socony red paint and the rectifier topside, were called "Bricks"?
These "motors" were probably one of the more intelligent moves the New Haven ever made; especially considering the price V their longevity per their intended use; primarily as in float train service between Oak Point and Cedar Hill.
They were rugged, dependable, and cheap! It is my opinion that had the New Haven kept its electrics and maintained them properly, they would have stayed that much more ahead of the game.
; considering that they were all paid for in full, and were a definite asset.
Gene;
With that six-wheel trailing truck, that "Cheshire" must have had one hell of a firebox!! To me, considering the size of the engine, why would that have been warranted?
Rich
Rich
The squareheads were the original VGN electrics from 1925, class EL-3A. They were 3 unit side rod engines. There were also several single units class EL-1A.
The E-33 were VGN class EL-C and were referred to as rectifiers by VGN men.
The remaining class of VGN electrics were the EL-2B. These two unit streamline GEs were known as roundnoses and streamliners.
Tom M
Good Morning all.
SteamGene: I was taught some French in grade school, in high school, and in college. The way I was taught was that [Americanized or not (or at least so my French College Professor said)] et in French always made an "a" sound. Now what the plural of that sound is , I'm not sure. It may have been "ays"., or even " ies".
Virginian: What happened on the Virginian at Stewartsville on a certain night? Did I miss something in one of the posts? Or miss one of the posts entirely?
Tac: I always thought that the Beyer-Garratts were made in Africa or Australia. I know (having seen pictures of a Beyer-Garatt) that they ran in Australia and Rhodesia or Zambia. Quite an impressive looking locomotive ( I think).
Tom M: Was there a reason that one of the squarehead electrics was called Clarabelle? Was this a name given out of affection for the old unit or because of something else?
Also , I believe that many railroaders also loved the steam engines better than some of the diesels, because (I either read, or was told ) that every steam engine had its' own personality.
I really have enjoyed all of the information Thanks to all who took the time to reply.
Hope everyone has a pleasant Afternoon.
Bob
Bob
I was always told the name Clarabelle came from Clarabelle the Clown from the 1950s Howdy Doody TV show.
The class AE 2-10-10-2 no. 800 blew up at Stewartsville killing the headend crew after leaving Roanoke on a eastbound coal train.
Tom M
What railroad was the 800 owned by and when did she explode?
The 800 was owned by the Virginian and blew up on April 1, 1941.
What railroad was the 800 owned by and when did she explode?
Posted by: Elmore Yard
Dear Mr SteamGene: you wrote - 'I was taught some French in grade school, in high school, and in college. The way I was taught was that [Americanized or not (or at least so my French College Professor said)] et in French always made an "a" sound. Now what the plural of that sound is , I'm not sure. It may have been "ays"., or even " ies".'
My family and I, like many with Canadian and French connections, are French speakers. Some of us speak more than one other language - as a university lecturer and consultant, I speak six languages apart from English, in any case, and I'm now seriously working on Japanese - I work in Tokyo for much of the year. All pales into total insignificance when I think about the wife of a cousin - she is a First Nation interpreter specialising in ALL the algonquian languages - and is fluent in Inuit as well...
Anyhow - the pronunciation of the French name' Mallet' is 'Mallay'. The plural of his name would sound exactly the same. In French nobody would use his name in the way we do in English - they would say 'Les locomotifs type Mallet...'
He was not French, BTW, but Swiss - Jules T. Anatole Mallet (23 May 1837 - 10 October 1919). He was the inventor of the first successful compound system for a railway steam locomotive, introducing in 1876 a series of small 2-cylinder compound 0-4-2 tanks for the Bayonne-Anglet-Biarritz Railway in France. This arrangement became known as the Mallet locomotive.
'Tac: I always thought that the Beyer-Garratts were made in Africa or Australia. I know (having seen pictures of a Beyer-Garatt) that they ran in Australia and Rhodesia or Zambia. Quite an impressive looking locomotive ( I think).'
Beyer-Garrat locomotives were a completely British invention and develpment, taking the name from the Beyer-Peacock locomotive works and the designer, Herbert William Garratt, a British locomotive engineer who after a career with British colonial railways was for some time the New South Wales Railways' Inspecting Engineer based in London. He first applied for a patent on the idea in 1907, after observing articulated gun carriages.
On of the original K1 garratts, the first ever built for the Tasmanian State Railways, is in service here in North Wales on the Welsh Highland Railway.
Read all about it on the excellent Wikipedia site, some of which I provided, BTW, and see it in action on Youtube..... ;D
Later on, big Garratts were built for the Algerian State Railways by the French government railway workshops, as well as those built in Britain, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Belgium, South Africa, Brazil, and Australia.
Sadly, the development of the Mallet-type articulated loco in the USA took place at the same time as the developing Garratt, so you missed out making use of a far superior design. On entering a curve from the tangent, the boiler of a Big Boy/Challenger/Allegheny tranfers outside the line of the track, putting undue stress on the outside rails. with a garrat design, ALL the weight of the boiler remains within the curve, sharing the load almost equally on both lines.
Bearing in mind that with very few exceptions, the Garratts were running on less than standard gauge - 3ft 6in and metre gauge for the most part - they were gigantic locomotives by anybody's standards - the NSW 4-8-4+4-8-4s must have been an impressive sight with their 150 car drags....
Best wishes
tac
www.ovgrs.org
PS - every steam locomotive DOES have its own personality - that is a fact. All of mine do, fer shure. ;)
I for one find it unfortunate that no Garretts ever ran in the U.S. As for "better", there are always trade-offs. There was some degree of weight transfer toward the outer rail with conventional articulateds, though I would think for the most part the generally broad curves on main line track would compensate to some extent. I think the biggest drawback to the Garretts was the limitation on fuel and water. There was only so much of either that could be fit on the frames. That also created another problem--as water and fuel are consumed, the overall engine weight drops, therefore losing tractive effort as well. I think there may still be a few Garretts running in Zimbabwe, though not sure if they are in regular service, or only used for charter/special runs.
Let me expound a bit on nicknames. Early on, they usually came about from the first railroad to successfully employ a particular type. There are, of course, exceptions.
4-4-0 - American, or Eight-Wheeler. Dubbed American because the type was by far the standard wheel arrangement of the 19th century.
4-6-0 - Ten-Wheeler. An Eight-Wheeler with an extra driver set. Developed in the 1840's.
4-8-0 - Twelve-Wheeler. More of the same. Sometimes referred to as a "Mastadon".
2-6-0 - Mogul. Also developed around the 1840's. With 6 drivers, they had more pulling power than the 4-4-0. Mogul derives from the powerful rulers of pre-Colonial India.
2-8-0 - Consolidation. Ordered by the Lehigh Valley RR during the time when they were merging a number of lines together, i.e., "consolidating" the lines. Became the most numerous type of wheel arrangement used in the U.S. (about 33,000 units).
4-4-2 - Atlantic. Named for the Atlantic City RR, which ordered them for high-speed service to the New Jersey shore resorts.
4-6-2 - Pacific. First ordered in quantity by the Missouri Pacific RR.
4-6-4 - Hudson/Baltic. Both roads ordered theirs about the same time. the NYC got bigger, better press, and the Hudson name generally stuck, except on the Milwaukee Road.
4-8-4 - Northern. First ordered by the Norther Pacific. Probably the wheel arrangement with the most alternate names, as noted previously.
4-8-2 - Mountain. First ordered by the C&O for service on the Mountain Division between Charlottesville and Clifton Forge, VA.
4-10-2 - Southern Pacific. SP and UP had most of these three-cylinder locos.
4-12-2 - Union Pacific. The UP alone had these monsters.
2-6-2 - Prairie. Developed for use in the Great Plains. I think the CB&Q might have had the first ones.
2-8-2- Mikado. The first ones were built by Baldwin for the Japanese railways about 1898. Gilbert and Sullivan operettas were very popular back then, and Mikado derived from that.
2-10-2 - Santa Fe. The AT&SF got the first ones, and had bunch of them. It became the de facto standard "drag freight" loco on many roads into the 1920's.
Trying to compare any "outside-the-USA" design of steam locomotive with the "inside-the-USA" designs is an exercise in comparing apples and watermelons. The Beyer-Garratts appear to have been an excellent design for the loads they hauled and the the roads they ran on.
It's like comparing Formula I with NASCAR or NHRA drags. If the USA gets serious about something (usually tied to it's ability to generate MONEY), they can excel at it. Formula I is not as well suited to huge crowds, advertising, and TV coverage in the USA, so it languishes here, while it is indisputably the top automobile racing series in the rest of the world. Marching to different drummers as it were. Not better; different.
However, I dare say none of the rest of the world's steam designs could have held a candle to a Y6b or a VGN 800 Class in drag service, or to a Big Boy or Allegheny/Blue Ridge or Class A in high horsepower fast freight service. The USA roads were all geared to hauling huge tonnages compared to the others in the world. I believe no other country ever employed any locomotives in the steam era that equalled or exceeded the axle loading of the C&O F-16s of about 1918, and they were FAR from the weightiest locos the USA would produce. Look at the average weight of Class I US rail compared to anywhere else.
The US came from waaay back, and yet charged into the lead in production of industrialized goods of all types - pulled by those magnificent steam locomotives.
P.S.- I know Mallard holds the world steam speed record. But if we could set up a race, my money would be on several other passenger steam designs. And, I do not think they would require repairs afterwards. :)
Huh, what did I say? Were you offended there by the suggestion that the USA could have made use of the Beyer-Garratt format but went another way?
I sincerely beg your pardon, Sir, and in future will keep my opinions, shared at the time by the former USRA, BTW, to myself.
Most those of us who are not American have never had any doubt of the industrial and engineering might of the USA - its gigantic locomotives in particular - we really do not need a reminder of the general superiority of everything American over the rest of the world's pathetic and backward technology, but pointing out that 'Mallard' needed repairs after its world-record-breaking run was a pretty cheap shot. Remember that NOBODY on earth claims to have gone faster by steam traction since that date in 1938.
The contest between 'Mallard' and 'The Burlington Zephyr' never happened.
Live with it.
tac
www.ovgrs.org
A locomotive, no matter where it is built, is designed around its environment. If the B&O, C&O and N&W had no mountains to climb, there would have been no heavy mallets. If there were difficult mountains to go around in England, they would have developed an engine to conquer them, a mallet or garret. Its no wonder with attitudes that people display here, that the US is hated around the world. :-[
Shouldn't that be "some people" and perhaps "many people"? Last I heard, individual Americans were still liked; it's the government that is disliked right now.
I think feathers are being ruffled because some folks are not thinking about tone and feeling.
Gene
right
I was not offended, and my response was meant to be completely lighthearted. See the smiley.
I am sorry if you took it wrong. I am beginning to think a lot of the opinions of Americans as arrogant are at least partially the result of our twisted sense of sarcasm. And, I did not think relating money as our only apparent motivation was all that flattering. Oh well.
But, I did not think that remark about Mallard's repairs was too much of a cheap shot, (even though I was implying I thought a couple of US steamers could have gone faster, even though they didn't). If something gets broken in the attempt, I don't think it should count. In Car and Driver's "Fastest of the Fast" shootout, two years in a row they gave it to the Dodge Viper, and yet both times it arrived at the test track on a trailer and HAD to leave that way, after problems. I thought the Ferrari won fair and square, having been driven to the contest, and driven away. But, I do not doubt Mallard could have duplicated the feat, and I do believe Mallard's record is valid over the German 05 (?) engine from everything I have seen.
I hope you will continue to express your opinions. It is a model RRing message board, not the UN. We do not have to agree to profit from the experience.
The 4-4-2 "Atlantic" got its name from the Atlantic Coast Line, the first railroad to use this wheel arangement extensively (1895) and deminstrate its high speed capabilities.
And, it is widely held the "Pacific" got its name because it is a "bigger" loco built on the same design principals as the Atlantic.
Sheldon
Quote from: Atlantic Central on August 06, 2007, 11:26:41 PM
The 4-4-2 "Atlantic" got its name from the Atlantic Coast Line, the first railroad to use this wheel arangement extensively (18950 and deminstrate its high speed capabilities.
And, it is widely held the "Pacific" got its name because it is a "bigger" loco built on the same design principals as the Atlantic.
Sheldon
Thanks, Sheldon, for that info - I guess that over here we copied your names for our similar type of locomotives.
tac
www.ovgrs.org
Thanks, Sheldon, for that info - I guess that over here we copied your names for our similar type of locomotives.
tac
www.ovgrs.org
[/quote]
Which possibly explains the confusion over Baltic/Hudson. For reasons unknown, the British adopted "Baltic" for the 4-6-4 arrangement, which only the Milwaukee Road used in the U.S. and ignored "Hudson," which the rest of the U.S. railroads used for the same arrangement. I'm assuming that tank locomotives would have the same name as a locomotive with a tender and the same wheel arrangement. That is, a 2-8-0T would still be a Consolidation.
Gene
Could it have something to do with the Milwaukee running on the wrong side of the tracks
Well the CNW ran left hand too...
Quote from: tac on August 03, 2007, 09:31:39 AM
Dear Mr Gene - you wrote - 'A Hudson and a Baltic are both 4-6-4s'.
Yes, thank you, I know that, but I live in the UK where we do not have Hudsons. The name 'Baltic' was only applied to TANK locomotives, as we never had a 4-6-4 locomotive with a tender in UK.
There is no reason why the Atlantic type loco should be so named here in UK. None of the lines that had this type of loco had any connection with the Atlantic.
The same goes for the Pacific, and we have a large number of them still in steam...in fact, the UK has more preserved, active and operational steam locomotives of all types than any other country in the world. ;D
tac
www.ovgrs.org
wrong, Chine has undoubtedly the largest amount of "operating" steam in the world as of yet but slowly but surely they are dwindling in numbers
AFAIK, for all intents and purposes, China has dropped all steam. Not all of them have yet been cut up.
Gene
as of jily 07 there aare reported at least 1247 steam locos still active
Quote from: ryeguyisme on August 09, 2007, 09:04:10 PMwrong, Chine has undoubtedly the largest amount of "operating" steam in the world as of yet but slowly but surely they are dwindling in numbers
Dear Mr ryeguyisme - Please read what I wrote - 'preserved, active and operational steam locomotives'.
This is a fact. China does NOT have over 2400 such locomotives. We do.
We also have over 80 preserved lines, standard gauge and narrow gauge, on which they operate.
tac
www.ovgrs.org
for me to excell in vocabulary, I noticed that all my posting look misspelt i apologize lol
and this list of northerns from steam locomotive.com
4-8-4 1921: Santa Fe
Northern 1926: Northern Pacific
Confederation Canadian National
Dixie Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis (and other Southern Roads)
Golden State Southern Pacific
Greenbrier Chesapeake & Ohio
Montana Great Northern???
Niagara New York Central
Niágara Nacionales de Mexico
Pocono Lackawanna
Potomac Western Maryland
Wyoming Lehigh Valley
Generals, Governers Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac
Good After noon all. There is some more information on steam locomotives that I need to find out about. I am going to use a quote from several and then ask my question.
On page 2 of this post, Ebtnut answered my reply. I am not going to requote the whole name and class list, just the 4-6-2 Pacific one.
Ebtnut: 4-6-2 Pacific - first ordered in quantity by the Missouri Pacific.
On page 3, Alantic Central (Sheldon) said: The 4-4-2 "Atlantic" got its name from the Atlantic Coast Line, the first rail road to use this wheel arrangement extensively (1895) & demonstrate its high speed capabilities. And it is widely held the "Pacific" got its name because it is a "bigger" loco built on the same design principles as the Atlantic.
Now I do not wish to start an argument on this board, and I would like to think that I can get along with every one on this board. But I seem to have two different definitions of how the (nick) name "Pacific" came about. I am just asking which definition is the most widely accepted?
I also read something about left hand running as used by the C&NW and the Milwaukee Road.
Page 3, Pdlethbridge: Re: could it have something to do with the Milwaukee running on the wrong side of the tracks?
Page 3, Guilford Guy: Well, the C&NW ran left hand too.
I know why the C&NW ran left handed. If I have my information correct, the C&NW ran left handed from the beginning because most of the roads' financing was obtained in Great Britain. And all traffic in Great Britain
whether it be buses, cars, trucks and trolleys (whoops, excuse me Tac, I meant to say trams) or railroads run left handed. But how this originated is a mystery to me. ( And probably better off left for another discussion in (on?) another post some other day). But I was not aware that the Milwaukee Road also ran left handed for most of its longevity. I wonder why this was so?
That is why I like this Forum. Almost every answer about steam locomotives begs another (or two) questions from me.
One other question, if I may: This question is directed to Elmore Yard (Tom M):
Tom M replied that : I was always told the name Clarabelle came from Clarabelle the Clown from the 1950s Howdy Doody TV Show.
I understand that, but my question was why was the one box cab electric named Clarabelle? Was it because the locomotive looked clownish? Or was it because the crew liked the name, and the name stuck? Or was it because the electric operated in a clownish manner?
Thanks again to every one who replied. I have enjoyed learning about steam locomotive (nick) names. I hope everyone has a pleasant evening.
Bob
Who knows at this late date. I gave you the answer I was told by my father. He did not know why some employee chose to name an old electric after a TV clown but it happened. Good enough for me.
Tom M
I was always told the name Clarabelle came from Clarabelle the Clown from the 1950s Howdy Doody TV Show.
I understand that, but my question was why was the one box cab electric named Clarabelle? Was it because the locomotive looked clownish? Or was it because the crew liked the name, and the name stuck? Or was it because the electric operated in a clownish manner?
I was just curious. Any way, thank you for taking the time to reply.
Bob
Bob and Sheldon are both sources of good, accurate information. In this case, I seem to remember sources that indicate that Bob is correct, "Pacific" came from the name of a railroad that ordered the arrangement in bulk. While it might be nice to have Union Pacific or Southern Pacific, or Northern Pacific, the road, my memory gives the nod to the smaller MoPac.
Now a really good mystery, which I will try to solve, is why Milwaukee gave "Baltic" to the 4-6-4 arrangement.
Gene
According to one source on a Milwaukee Road board, the 4-6-4 arrangement first appeared in northern Europe and got the Baltic name since the Baltic Ocean borders northern Europe. The Road honored the source but the NYC selected "Hudson." That would mesh with the English calling the 4-6-4 "Baltic."
Gene
First, Baltic is a northern European sea, not an ocean. A lot of the citizenry up in the Milwaukee area is supposedly of Scandanavian and/or Nordic heritage (I do not know, pure hearsay), so maybe that was why they chose Baltic.
In any even, current day students of fine steam locomotives know what a Baltic is.
Milwaukee has a large number of descendents from German immigrants. The Scandinavians went west to Minnesota.
I'm not sure the difference between an ocean and a sea.
Gene