Hello all.
I'm returning to HO after more than 50 years...my last layout was dismantled in 1960 at age 15!
I have been designing a new small "starter" layout and for my first new engine I purchased an 0-6-0T Bachmann swithcher. It's equipped with DCC (which I will eventaually be incorporating on the layout) but states in the paperwork that it is 100% backward compatible with DC operation.
However, when I tried it on a section of test track with a normal DC power pack...nothing.
Now I know I have a lot to catch up on, but have I misunderstood the Bachmann paperwork? There is nothing in the box addressing any changes needed. Do I need to "disconnect" some part of the DCC to get it to work on a regular DC powerpack? Or am I more lost than I think I am? ???
Welcome.
Probably not obvious but there is a HO forum.
First thing, a dual mode loco needs at least half throttle to respond. Most DC only locos start moving at a lower voltage.
Decoders need five volts DC just to wake up the microprocessor on the decoder and maybe seven volts for the loco to begin moving.
Try touching the power pack leads right to the loco wheels. You can also do this with a 9 volt battery and it should respond a little.
The lights should come on also.
Is this loco new from a LHS or private sale. With private sale, some turn of the DC option as it sometimes causes issues when run by a DCC controller.
Rich
Any loco with a decoder does not get straight DC from the rails. The microprocessor sends Pulse Width Modulation pulse's to the motor.
The microprocessor determines on how to run the motor and lights if DC or DCC.
Rich
The engine is brand new, from Walther's.
Tried touching the wheels with leads, at varied "throttles"...low to full tilt. Nothing, not a hum, no lights, absolutely nada...just like when sitting on the track.
I have put a multimeter across both the tracks and the leads and get rising readings as I run the throttle from stop to full power.
Is there a static check for the engine? Wouldn't the microprocessor be the equivalent of a "broken" wire so the meter won't give a reading for continuity?
Like I said...I have a LOT of catching up to do since 1960's wiring and control circuitry.
The microprocessor looks for pulses or if no pulses, it operates in the DC mode and responds to varying DC voltage.. Might be a defective loco.
I have measured the resistance at the wheels of a decoder equipped loco but do not remember what the exact reading was. I am guessing about 20,000 ohms with the decoder installed.
Not too difficult to remove the shell as I have one of these. Take a look inside. There are jumper clips to install when the decoder is removed.
You can also remove the decoder and touch the power leads to the two motor wires. Never put any power to a loco motor with a decoder installed. Sure way to smoke a decoder.
Your choice unless you know someone with a DCC system.
Rich
After 50 years I would say you have a steep learning curve when it comes to DCC.
Below is a useful link with lots of info about DCC.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn/index.htm
The below link shows you what a basic decoder looks like. Many decoders also include sound circuits.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm
Rich
Thanks for the links and input on the engine, richg.
I think I will remove the body shell as suggested, disconnect the decoder system and try to energize the motor directly. If that works, then I guess a call to Bachmann's Customer Service line is in order tomorrow.
Doubt they even have my warranty registration card yet.
As mentioned, the engine is brand new, just out of the box and there are no instructions saying there is a need to do any changing of circuitry to run on basic DC. In their words "it is 100% backward compatible with DC"
Thanks again and please have patience with my "learning curve"! ;)
Below is the diagram you should have got with your loco.
Mine was DCC Ready and had two metal clips on the terminal strip so it could run on DC. All I have to do is pull the clips and solder the proper wires to each terminal.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/81811.pdf
Rich
Do you want to have a DCC layout or a DC one? If you don't want DCC, take off the decoder and wire the loco for normal DC operation. You can then operate it with your DC powerpack, and won't have to give it half throttle to get it to move.
I personally don't use DCC. I think the advantages of DC operation outweigh those of DCC.
Les
Unless I missed something, it looks like you are not getting power. Make sure the the plug between locomotive and tender is plagged in all the way.
The PC board on my DCC ready is a little different than the one that is DCC on board. The diagram does not show any clips to modify for DC. I will check mine that has the clips and let you know which pins to jumper.
Anyone reading this, the OP is new to DCC so don't just mention, connect the terminals without details.
Rich
Your Loco should run fine on DC right out of the box, Why fix or tinker with something that is brand new and should be running. return the loco for a new one and enjoy running your loco
NM-Jeff
Quote from: NarrowMinded on August 05, 2012, 04:55:08 PM
Your Loco should run fine on DC right out of the box, Why fix or tinker with something that is brand new and should be running. return the loco for a new one and enjoy running your loco
NM-Jeff
The OP clearly said the loco is not working with DC power and want to see if he can figure it out which is what I would do as I like the challenge and I assume he wants the challenge.
Rich
I looked at the diagram that came with my 0-6-0T and it came with two clips to run the loco as DC . A little different than yours. The diagram for yours does not show the DC adapter clips that many Spectrum;s come with. Bachmann is known to be inconsistent in the same series of a loco.
You will eventually realize Bachmann does not use the NMRA wiring color code for many of their DCC locos.
Rich
QuoteThe OP clearly said the loco is not working with DC power and want to see if he can figure it out which is what I would do as I like the challenge and I assume he wants the challenge.
Richg,
I am so happy for you that you like to repair defective locomotives that's great!
I'm really not sure why you are commenting on my post...
I read the OP and it appears that he originally was looking for aid to see if there is something he needed to do along the lines of normal operation and or settings to make his loco function on DC, My statement is to clarify that he should have to do nothing to the locomotive at all it should run on straight DC right out of the box.
if he wants to take it apart and try and fix it and possibly void the warranty on a new loco that is his choice.
QuoteAny loco with a decoder does not get straight DC from the rails
This statement is wrong.
when you place a decoder equipped loco on a DC powered track it does get DC straight from the rails, how else does the decoder get power to turn on the lights and run the motor.
NM-Jeff
Hi Hank - Welcome back 'into the fold'...we missed you. Think of DCC as an Olympic-sized swimming pool. You can have fun at (or near) the one end; or you can 'go for the gold' and swim the entire length of the pool. The choice is yours.
DCC, at its basic level is really simple. You run some buss wire(s) [+, -] under the layout and attach track feed wires to this (theoretically you could only use 2 track feed wires - but this isn't recommended). I like to run a power feed for every length of track; but that may be overkill. You can spend all kinds of money on a DCC system; but they all work about the same (at the intro level). The Bachmann units are fine, I use the MRC Prodigy Advanced, others swear by Digitrax or NCE. It comes down to how far into the pool you want to go and how deep your pocket are. Start simply, and less expensive, as you can always upgrade later.
All DCC locomotives come with a default address of '3'. If you are only going to run one locomotive on the layout at a time, you can keep this address. You will eventually want to run more than one unit at a time and will need to change from the default address. Cross that bridge when you get to it.
I guess what I am saying is take 'baby steps' in the beginning. I would not change, disconnect, or modify anything on your locomotive for now. It should run fine on DC as well as DCC. If it doesn't, send it to the fine folks at the Bachmann Service Center. I've been in the hobby for over 50 years and I don't install decoders, speakers, or do advanced programing...and I thoroughly enjoy the hobby. Remember: go as far into the pool as your comfort level/skills allow. This hobby is meant to be fun.
Regards,
Ray
PS: Here is a good website to learn the magic of DCC http://www.wiringfordcc.com/ (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/)
Hi Hank
Get two or three of these meters and a set of clip leads.
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-69096.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-inch-low-voltage-multi-colored-test-leads-66717.html
I have three of these meters. One is in my car.
Mine read about 13.6 VAC when checking the NCE Power Cab DCC controller.
The only downside is they do not measure AC current which has never been an issue for me.
Invaluable for trouble shooting.
Most here will guarantee that they will be useful some time in the future.
One important thing to consider, when building the layout, keep checking for shorts between rails. Some wire a layout and find out there is a short, After the layout is finished.
The previous message, there is a very good link and I believe he shows how to make a short detector.
The old method of block wiring and common rail is not used much anymore when wiring for DCC.
Something called booster districts is the in thing but depends on how big a layout is. Reversing loops and crossovers can complicate wiring.
As was said, don't jump into the deep end of the pool.
Rich
Thanks for the encouragement, suggestions and links to related info.
I took the line(s) of least resistance...called Bachmann service line (I think I woke up the old guy who answered) and was told it would take 6-8 weeks for them to "get to it". Called Walthers, talked with both Service and Sales and obtained a Return Authorization for an exchange/replacement unit. No troubles at all! They confirmed that it "should" run on normal DC trackage and that there is an issue with it. It went out in today's mail.
As for my layout planning...I was going to do the bus wiring from the get go even while running regular DC and check every section of track for continuity and power feed....part of the reason for getting a new engine in the first place. (I actually did a variant of the bus wiring on my last layout in 1960 so each 3 foot flex track had a power feed, not relying on track connectors)
It will then be ready for DCC and sound when I get comfortable with those systems.
The layout will only be 5 x 10 and is based on the Lilliput Logger plan shown in the Aug 1998 MR. I am altering it to include a narrow gauge logging area along with the standard HO gauge for "normal" traffic. The layout is designed to become part of a growing empire if I decide to go there later, but for now this will certainly be enough of a challenge.
Building acoustic guitars for nearly 2 decades has kept my woodworking, finishing and fine detail skills intact so now it just the old eyes that may slow me down. I hope to cultivate some "John Allen" skills throughout this project as photos of his work used to adorn the walls of my layout room (basement) circa the late 1950's.
Thanks again for all the responses.
Hank - I originally built the Monks' Island Railway to run on DC. As you can imagine, this involved breaking the layout up into smaller 'blocks'. Each block was controlled via SPDT electrical switches (with 'A', 'B', and OFF positions).
Recently I decided to 'spring forward' to DCC. The easiest way to accomplish this was to remove the two DC controllers, put all the block electrical switches in one position (in my case the 'B' position) and wire my MRC Prodigy Advanced controller to the 'B' feed. Now all the old blocks receive DCC 'flavored' power. I can even shut off a single block with those electrical switches (center position is OFF). Why have an OFF position? DCC/sound equipped locomotives always make sound...even when not in use. Having a couple of locomotives idling (even with the volume programed to minimum values) can be disturbing. Being able to turn off a siding (or roundhouse bay) eliminates the extraneous noise.
See? Easy peasy,
Ray