Just curious since I noted MRC remains out of stock on most of theirs and Bachmann no longer offers their Spectrum Magnum series. With the current recession, I doubt that everyone else is going into DCC and paying extra for milling out frames on older locomotives. So far, my old MRC Tech II dualpower 2800 and Spectrum Magnum keep my layout running fine. If one wears out with heavy usage plus age, I could probably find something similar at another hobby shop or train show. My favorite two local area hobby shops do not stock any new DC packs and indicate supply problems. Kato still has their one pack. No emergency on this end, but just wondering.
DC is just not as important anymore.
You will find plenty of DC power packs at shows and ebay.
Rich
Our shop has all the MRC packs in stock. There are down times between restocks at times but they are pretty steady in stock. We hardly sell any DC transformers any more. DCC is selling 1 : 1 with DC right now.
I would take issue with that statement. DC certainly remains important to all who are using it.
I still use an MRC Tech II Dual Power pack on my N-scale railroad and am very happy with it. I believe most actual operating model railroads in this country are DC.
Anybody who wants DCC and can afford it can have it. If the manufacturers were to offer only DCC products, I think their sales would suffer considerably.
Even model railroaders who can afford to have an extensive locomotive roster with DCC have only so much money to spend on locomotives and control systems. They can either spend it on DCC controllers and decoders, or on more DC locomotives with a simple and reliable DC control system. A model railroad like my own, that runs a large number of trains from several different railroads, needs a lot of cars and locomotives. I would rather spend my money on trains and locomotives for them.
The manufacturers have an interest in selling expensive equipment, and the hobby magazines have an interest in pushing their advertisers' products. If your view of the hobby is based on what the hobby magazines and their advertisers are saying, then yes, DC is unimportant. If your view of the hobby is based on actually building and operating a model railroad (not just a loop of track and a locomotive or two), then your hobby interest is based on getting the most for your hobby dollar, and in that case, DC is very important indeed.
Almost everything that can be gained by using DCC can be achieved with plain old DC. DCC requires just as much wiring as DC for reliable operation, despite early claims that "it only takes two wires to hook up your railroad".
Sound systems do not require DCC. DCC requires relatively high voltage to be on all powered tracks at all times, even if the train is not moving. To isolate track requires DC-style block wiring. Thus you have additional potential (no pun intended) for short circuits and fires.
True, you can run your trains head-on into each other with DCC, but, unless you are Gomez Addams, why would you want to?
DCC can also be used to operate things like switch machines, which can be operated more reliably and cheaply with conventional wiring.
I am a retired locomotive engineer, so I think I can judge what is "realistic" and what isn't. I have also left a good portion of my hearing in locomotive cabs due to "realistic sound effects".
Virtually any N-scale model locomotive that has ever been made anywhere on this planet will operate on DC. This is greater compatibility than is realized with actual locomotives. While all in the same "scale", their track gauges differ. N-scale is 9mm, regardless of the equipment. The only problem comes when DC locomotives are put on a DCC system. This makes DCC, not DC, the "odd man out".
It is my own opinion that DCC is an expensive gimmick that is apt to lose its popularity as its drawbacks are realized. If the manufacturers will continue to support DC, I think DC will remain the hobby standard. If they do not support DC, they are going to lose a lot of customers. A DCC locomotive can be converted to run on DC easier and more cheaply than converting a DC locomotive to run on DCC.
Les
DCC is 21 years old this year. Quite a long time for a gimmick. The wiring is simpler. Take a couple of oval sections of track joined by turnouts with two locomotives. Using DC, swap the locos from one oval to the other without using isolated sections. Can you do it? I know I can with DCC. "Thus you have additional potential (no pun intended) for short circuits and fires." A short circuit is a short circuit whether you're using DC or DCC. A DCC controller will cut out a lot faster than a DC controller, so reducing any presumed chance of fires.
DCC can do a lot of things not possible with DC. You can have uncoupling anywhere on the layout. You can attach helper engines at the back of your trian if there is a steep incline. You can have cargo trucks with opening roofs where you can lift the cargo out with a crane. If you have youngsters visiting who like to run trains at 300mph full throttle you can restrict the maximum speed. There are many more things possible too and more are in development.
Judging by what I read online and in the model press, people who do not enthusiastically endorse DCC are stone-age neanderthals. Apparently I, too, am one of them. I have happily used DC for a long time and will continue to do so. Sure there a lot of things that CAN be done with trains using DCC, but nothing I WANT to do with MY trains that can't be done with DC. I won't be so close-minded to rule it out if the NEED ever arises, but until then I have no justifiable reason for the extra expense.
DCC is still relatively new, even if it hasa reached the age of 21. How mature were you at 21?
Like automatic transmissions and digital television broadcasting, it promises advantages but also has unpublicized drawbacks. For some of us, the one outweighs the other, and for some of us, it's the other way around. To each his own.
A lot depends on how you run your pike, just as the type of car you own depends a lot on how and where you drive. Some new technology seems to be perfect, like indoor plumbing (remember Hilton's "Shangri-La"?) but there are pros and cons to them all. Let's hope that the model industry doesn't decide to dump the old and make the new the only -- as the record business did with the DVD -- and leave us with a Hobson's Choice of DCC or nothin'. That would be unfortunate.
Railsider
There are lots of really good DC power packs being sold still.
Of course those who have a lot invested in a DC layout have a different opinion then those of us that do not, and could make a choice on a system the next time around.
If Les has a lot of DC engines that run good and he has all the wiring set up for block control then DC is just fine.
I still have my really good MRC power packs from my earlier layout. I have run my DCC engines with just the DC light boards in them and they run very well. Not as much fun as DCC, IMO. :D
Poliss:
I personally would not want to build a DC layout without block wiring, but yes, two DC locos can be run from one oval to another with block wiring, if they are both pulling the same train.
And you do have potential for shorts and fires with DCC. Unless you divide the railroad into DC-style blocks, all tracks are going to have 18-24v AC power on them as long as the powerpack is on, even if the throttles are shut. On a DC railroad, if the throttle is turned off, the track is dead.
Quite possibly, people owning large DCC railroads have block wiring installed anyway, so blocks can be isolated and locomotives can be parked without power on them. In the real world, only locomotives on mainlines are required to have their headlights burning when left parked.
I'm not really sure what you mean about being able to uncouple anywhere with DCC.
Are you referring to locomotives with onboard uncoupling systems? I think that is unusual even for DCC locos.
You can locate an uncoupling magnet on any model railroad anywhere you want, regardless of the control system used. And full-sized railroads don't uncouple cars and locomotives just anywhere, only in certain locations.
DCC's promise of simple wiring has not met the test of reality, unless you have a very small railroad. The system is so sensitive to interruptions and voltage drop that it requires as much feeder wiring as a DC system for reliable operation. If you add all the wiring you would need for DC, plus the isolation switches needed to control block sections, where is the big savings DCC is supposed to have? You have a much more expensive control system (unless you use the most basic of starter systems), and more expensive locomotives.
I've never seen a DCC system with cargo trucks with opening roofs and a crane, but that really sounds like a gimmick to me. If that is the thing that turns you on, maybe you would be better off with tinplate.
Helper operations are certainly possible with DC. You only need to have blocks that are shorter than your train.
Visiting youngsters that like to run trains at 300mph are not allowed anywhere near the railroad.
mhampton:
The model press reinforces the idea that people who don't use DCC are Neanderthals, I agree. To understand why, you only need to follow the money trail.
The advertisers support the magazine. The magazine supports the advertisers by creating the illusion that it is necessary to use the latest technology offered by those advertisers. The needs and the best interests of the magazine's customers are ignored in this revolving door. This is why I am not renewing my subscription to a model railroad hobby magazine. Most of the articles are about a scale I do not model in, or articles relating to DCC, neither of which a relevant to my own hobby needs.
railsider:
A 21 year-old gimmick is still a gimmick, if it does not offer increased value to its users. What advantages does DCC really offer?
I can see there is an advantage in being able to match locomotive speeds in a consist, so units with widely varying speeds (due to gearing or motor characteristics) can run smoothly together. In my own experience with DC, this is not much of a problem. Most all similar units, even from different manufacturers, will run acceptably well together.
Onboard sound, especially in N-scale, is more difficult to do with DC, but by no means impossible.
Constant headlights at all times? Not found on the actual railroads. Directional lighting is already common in DC, simply by using a pair of diodes in the headlight circuit.
On the fly uncoupling? This is unusual even with DCC. And it is unprototypical.
Real trains need to be stopped before cutting off cars, to close the angle cock on the cars still attached to the locomotive at the point of the cut. Otherwise, the whole train would go into emergency, including the locomotives.
Trains moving in opposite directions on the same track? You can easily do this with block DC wiring.
So, for a lot more money, you get locomotives you can closely match speeds with, make noise easier with, have to program, might melt your wheels to the track, and are impervious to trouble-shooting without additional electronic hardware. I cannot call that an improvement, or even call it progress.
Les
Ken:
Thanks for your comments.
I am using an MRC Tech II dual pack I purchased in the 1980's. It is still working flawlessly. I bought it to replace an even older MRC dual pack that I purchased new in 1979. This pack used taper-wound rheostats and manual pulse selection, quite up to date for the time. It had a metal case. The case would heat up in use and buzz.
I've said on this forum before that I might consider DCC for a future railroad if I had only a small number of operable DC locomotives. I strongly suspect that my present N scale railroad will be my last. My current railroad is three years old. The one it replaced lasted 28 years!
I have about 60 operable N-scale locomotives. Only 38 see regular use, because my railroad is passenger-oriented, and the other 22 are freight units.
My railroad uses EZ Track for main lines and major side tracks, Atlas flex track for all other track. All 40 track switches are remote-controlled with conventional AC motors and wiring.
My wiring is conventional DC block wiring. It is dependable and straightforward, and can be visually traced. Two turntables are Atlas, powered with Bachmann DC powerpacks and throttles. They also provide power for switch machines. An old Bachmann train set powerpack provides additional switch machine power.
Eleven Atlas Selector panels route power to 33 blocks and 9 roundhouse tracks. An Atlas Controller feeds power to the reverse loop. Some of the Selectors came off the previous layout.
My railroad features a total of 20 passenger trains from seven different railroads. I chose to spend my hobby money modeling these trains and building the railroad, rather than spend it on DCC. I'm glad we can still make choices like this.
Les
No, I did not mean on the same train. I meant moving from one oval to the other with seperate trains.
No, there is no danger of fire because the controller cuts the power when there's a short.
No, you do not need to isolate sections to 'park' a loco.
No, DCC is not sensitive to voltage drop, interruptions or dirty track with modern stay alive decoders. They will even cope with dirty track far better than DC locos.
No, uncoupling on the fly is not unprototypical. It used to happen all the time with passenger trains at speed.
You call opening roofs on cargo trucks a gimmick. Others might call it adding to operational interest.
How do you operate these blocks when using a helper engine? Why complicate the wiring with blocks and switches when you don't have to?
How is the hobby going to survive if you keep visiting youngsters away from your layout?
Programming locos is no more difficult than dialing a phone number.
I don't read the modelling press, so I'm not affected by any advertising.
DCC locos need no converting to run on DC power.
Do the lights on real locos dim when they slow down?
I'm not trying to change the minds of confirmed DCers. I know from experience that it's impossible.
Just checked online and MRC website shows "Out of Stock" for their Tech 4 and most Tech 6 power packs (that is DC transformer). Train World Online also no longer shows dual control Tech 4. Bachmann Spectrum Magnum power packs are no longer made and Troller is long gone. Sure someone has some stuck back in inventory somewhere. The speed controller with transformer supplied in most train sets will handle only one locomotive with a couple of turnouts (switches) or other accessory. To handle two or more locomotives for an hour, or longer :), operating session requires a larger DC power pack. Yes, Bachmann, and others, still make and sell DC locomotive train sets (many are not DCC ready). Not to worry since September 2012 Railroad Model Craftsman has an add for the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra noting it operates analog and digital locos. Does that mean I can run DCC and then operate an older design DC locomotive with this same Zephyr xtra? Maybe other DCC power will also run DC (analog) locos, I just don't know. Unfortunately, there are no local hobby shops in my area with demo layouts. Since my old DC packs continue to work flawlessly, I have time. Also, Fall brings train shows with operating layouts and experts. I am not anti-DCC, just on a budget. I can see the advantage of programming a slow running loco (like Atlas Scale Speed) and a fast runner (like Kato F units) to run together without issues.
While it's possible to run one DC loco on a DCC system, by a process called zero stretching, it is not recommended as it can burn out the motor, especially when the loco is stationary.
See Mark Gurries page about running DC locos on DCC and a full explanation of zero stretching.
https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/technical-discussions/dc-loco-on-dcc/short-address-00-dc-control
Poliss:
I can see we are not going to agree, but some of your statements run counter to my understanding of what DCC can do.
My track layout can be most basically described as a double-track dogbone. With DC block wiring, I have no problem moving two independently-controlled trains from one loop to another, and have done so many times. I use four crossovers for this purpose.
My powerpack has a thermal circuit breaker that will cut power in case of a short. But a track that carries no current is not going to short.
I repeatedly read warnings not to leave locos parked on powered DCC track. A DC loco left this way will develop motor damage. A DCC loco will keep its headlight on.
If DCC is not subject to voltage drop and dirty track, why then do so many DCC users run buss wires and additional power feeds? Apparently, many DCC layouts use a block system virtually identical to the DC railroads. The purpose is to provide full power without voltage drops, and to be able to positively "turn off" tracks.
Uncoupling on the fly is prototypical? Most railroads have rules against this.
Doing this with passenger trains? Maybe 100 years ago. But again, what would I know?
DC helpers? I used to have an HO railroad that could do this. You just keep each loco in its own block, hooked to its own throttle. If you are running the road engine, just release each block as you leave it. If you are running the helper, just select the block you are about to enter. It isn't rocket science.
Operating trackside accessories? These have been around for at least 100 years. They have nothing to do with DCC, although they could be operated by it.
My own grandchildren know better than to run my trains at top speed (nothing close to 300 mph). If any visitors cannot resist doing that, no, they are not allowed near the railroad.
I've never programmed a locomotive, and have no plans to. Ever.
DCC locos can run on DC, but I've read (here, maybe) they will require a much higher throttle setting before they start moving. I would either remove the decoder or wire around it.
The lights on real locos do not dim when they slow down, unless they have a faulty auxiliary generator.
Modern DC model locomotives use LED headlights that do not dim when the locomotive slows down, either.
I share your opinion of the model press. In the late 60's and through the 70's it was inspiring. not so anymore.
It all comes down to "what do you want to spend your hobby money on?"
Les
Thanks for the input, Guys! A magazine ad sometimes catches my eye. Especially when it shows 3 amps of power, plus noted "operates analog and digital". If it worked (without motor damage), that would save a bunch over a lot of loco conversions or fire-sale prices on older design locos. Oh well, I will keep my eyes open next train show. Probably I will buy a neat back up DC power supply in case my one of my old ones goes out. Hey, my MRC Tech II dual power is right at 20 years old. I still own an old Atlas train set power pack from my first N scale set purchased by me in 1969. It comes in handy for DC locomotive trouble shooting, maintenance, and testing. Maybe power pack longevity plus DCC answers my question about scarcity of new upgrade DC power packs.
Quote from: Desertdweller on August 25, 2012, 10:03:03 PM
Poliss:
If DCC is not subject to voltage drop and dirty track, why then do so many DCC users run buss wires and additional power feeds? Apparently, many DCC layouts use a block system virtually identical to the DC railroads. The purpose is to provide full power without voltage drops, and to be able to positively "turn off" tracks.
You should run the same buss wires and feeders in a DC layout as you do a DCC layout. Voltage drop occurs on both systems. Never rely on rail joiners as you primary power connection. A DC layout will slow far from the power feed just as much as a DCC layout will. Feeders are just good electrical practice for any layout. It just seems that the guys into DCC are more consious of good electrical practices.
QuoteUncoupling on the fly is prototypical? Most railroads have rules against this.
Doing this with passenger trains? Maybe 100 years ago. But again, what would I know?
Uncoupling on the fly was very prototypical, as little as 30-40 years ago. Helpers would cut off on the fly on mountain railroads so that once the train made the top of the grade, it didn't have to stop to drop off the pushers on the back. The helper loco would return down the hill light, ready to help the next train. B&O built especially strong cabooses just for this service so they wouldn't have to cut in the train ahead of the caboose.
Quote
DC helpers? I used to have an HO railroad that could do this. You just keep each loco in its own block, hooked to its own throttle. If you are running the road engine, just release each block as you leave it. If you are running the helper, just select the block you are about to enter. It isn't rocket science.
If it was only that easy. With DCC you can speed match the locos so you don't get the helper pushing cars off the track or dragging things down and stringlining the whole train. Try running a mid train helper in DC through multiple blocks and cabs.....good luck keeping the train off the ground.
QuoteDCC locos can run on DC, but I've read (here, maybe) they will require a much higher throttle setting before they start moving. I would either remove the decoder or wire around it.
I have many DC locos that start at widely different voltages. It's not just DCC locos on DC that have the problem. With DCC you can cure that and have every loco start at the same throttle setting and run at the same speed at any throttle setting. Its called speed matching and it will allow any loco to run with any other loco.
QuoteThe lights on real locos do not dim when they slow down, unless they have a faulty auxiliary generator.
Modern DC model locomotives use LED headlights that do not dim when the locomotive slows down, either.
The lights on a real loco also don't go off below 5 mph.
Instead of buying an all-in-one "power pack" (ie transformer and controller in an integrated unit), you might consider buying a tethered throttle such as those sold by Ken Stapleton, and powering it with a surplus (ie "free) plug pack or laptop power supply. Some of these have memory, which allows you to unplug from one spot on the layout it while the train is moving, and plug it in elswhere.
Regards,
Ron McF
I have been a model railroader for many years. I built layouts using DC because that's all there was. I switched to DCC in 2006 and would never go back. For me, throwing block switches as trains run is not fun at all. With DCC I run an engine, not a block of track.
I don't understand why some have to insist that either DC or DCC is the best for everyone. It seems they want validation for their choice. DCC is not a gimmick. It is here to stay until something better comes along. Each of us pursues this hobby in the way that is best for us. I have no need to put down or insult anyone because they do things differently than I do.
There is no best way to do most things in this hobby. There is only what is best for you. This is a hobby. There is no "right" way to enjoy it. If a hobbyist is having fun he/she is doing it "right."
To get this thread back on track...
From what I understand, this temporary lull in the MRC production is not unusual. I do not believe they are ready to abandon their DC throttle market share just yet.
Their (smallest) 1300 is a great step-up pack.
No worries here...
When I bought mine I got both the Tech4 260 and 280.
Right now, I have more power than I do have layout.
A good thing.
Look around they can be found.
PS...enjoy your hobby your way...
Les, Passenger trains explains it. And the Tech II is a very good power pack.
As there is very little switching compared to my industrial switching layout and I have no passenger trains then DC works very well and is a good choice.
One of the newer Tech4's would be a good DC power pack to use if buying a new one.
I am relatively new to the hobby. (Approx. 3 three years)
When I decided to get started I researched both systems.
I certainly understand a person who has been running DC (and accumulating DC locos) not wanting to spend the money to convert all of their stock to DCC.
That would take a lot of time and money.
Approx. $30.00 & 15 minutes per loco.
I don't however, understand a newbie starting with DC.
This is an expensive hobby regardless of the operating system we use.
I think most new modelers understand this and will spend the small amount of extra money necessary to go with the latest technology.
With the limited locos available in N scale most of us who get into this hobby can afford to purchase what we need. $30.00 more for DCC probably won't deter anyone from buying a loco.
I personally hope manufacturers continue to provide DC for a long time. I would hate to see some longtime modelers get left out out in the cold.
We get much of our good information from "oldtimers".
I do however believe that the future of model railroading lies in DCC. (assuming something better doesn't come along)
Just my 2 cents.
Well, it was never my intention to tell people how they should spend their money, or how they should enjoy their hobby. It was just that our hobby, being something that "disposable income" is spent on, should deliver the most value for each dollar spent.
I could have built a DCC railroad if the things that DCC delivers were important to me. I have spent many thousands of dollars building it. DC or DCC, it is not a cheap hobby.
Using Roget's estimate, a conversion of my locomotive roster (just the ones I use) would run about $1,000, in addition to several hundred dollars for a control system capable of handling those units. I would still have needed to install virtually all the wiring and block selectors I installed for my DC system to allow reliable power feed and track isolation for engine storage and safety reasons. Some posters have stated they feel having power on all tracks at all times is safe. I do not.
As I have pointed out earlier, modern N scale locomotives have constant lighting that comes on when the power does (yes, even under 5mph). I have several late-model Kato locomotives that have this feature. Directional lighting using diodes have been an industry standard for many years. Kato observation cars even have constant lighting on drumheads.
Full-size locomotives have variable headlight settings. Headlights are required to be dimmed for meets, for example. If I have an older locomotive that moves slowly with a dim headlight, that causes me no angst. Actually, the headlights come on before the locomotive moves because they draw less current than the motor does.
My railroad is very specific in terms of time frame modeled and area modeled. Certain train are modeled with prototypical motive power. Train sets use dedicated equipment, and no two trains run the same cars except in the case of run-throughs.
I model a situation where there are 20 arrivals and 20 departures a day, involving trains of seven railroads. Even the through trains arrive and depart from the same direction, so all arrivals have to be turned. All trains are handled by head-end power only. I model an urban area where grade crossings are kept to a minimum, at least for main lines. In my own case, there is little to be gained by going to DCC. My last big conversion project was converting all my equipment, including freight equipment, to KayDee couplers in 1999. This was while their patents were still in effect and clones were non-existant. That project cost several hundred dollars and many hours.
Ken:
My Tech II Dual Pack is still going strong, and will probably outlast me. The Tech IV would make a good replacement.
The original old MRC dual pack was still working well, but was so far out of date it needed to be replaced. The manual pulse was difficult to use and noisy, the whole pack hummed, and heated up with use. One feature I liked with both packs was the on-off switch, a simple thing often overlooked. I suggest plugging all powerpacks into a surge protector strip with its own on-off switch. My railroad uses two of these strips, one plugged into the other, so the whole works can be shut off with one switch. The little red LED's on the current Bachmann throttles make great "pilot lights".
Les
FYI, the new October 2012 issue of Model Railroader magazine has a good analysis of DCC on pages 68 and 69 labeled DCCCorner. I can see some shorting concerns about conversions, especially concerning turnouts (track switches) plus constant AC current going through the rails. The plus side of DCC is being able to independently control locomotives on the same track, match locomotive speeds, and easier sound control. However, if you want to convert older N locomotives to DCC, you probably will have to add $66 (give or take) for frame milling for a place to put the converter. Also, micro soldering is not easy. For the present, I will stick with DC on my modest layout. The plus side is that older N scale locomotives (not DCC ready) are easy to find and the price dropped. It is your choice, but either way is fun. Nothing is more relaxing than running trains or visiting with friends at hobby shops or train shows.
I have no problems with my DCC locos shorting on turnouts. If the wiring is done properly there should be no shorts. There is no safety problem leaving DCC locos on powered track. It's DC locos that should not be left stationary on DCC track. The lights on a DCC loco can be turned off with a push of a button. There's usually a headlight symbol on the controller.
Where do you get the $66.00 for frame milling and converter Albert? The highest price I could find for a replacement frame was $15.00 with most being $10.00 plus $22.00 for a suitable decoder. Or you could mill the frames yourself as I did when I wanted to put LED lights in a DC loco.
I got my October Model Railroader today, and read the article on DCC. I found it to be very fair, discussing both advantages and disadvantages of the system.
I think anyone contemplating starting in DCC, or converting to DCC from an existing DC railroad, should read this article and give it some serious thought.
As far as milling frames for decoder clearance, that is something I would do myself, were I to use that system.
I think keeping a constant 18 volts at 5 or more amps on the tracks at all times is asking for trouble. This is more than enough to fry a motor or even weld wheels to the rails. This need not even involve a locomotive. A car derailed on a switch, or even a screwdriver touching both rails is enough to cause a problem.
Les
Maybe I was wrong on milling cost since current exchange price is now much lower at a place like Aztec Manufacturing. My $66 comment was from some train magazine review from several years ago. Yes, go online to Aztec for current price list..
If there's a short a DCC system will cut the power almost instantly. Far faster than a DC system. An example with dead frog turnouts. If the back to back distance between the wheels is too wide, or the tires on very old locos are very wide. As they run over the frog they may cause a short circuit. On DC systems the loco will usually keep going as the short circuit detection on a DC controller is relatively slow. On a DCC system the short circuit detection is extremely fast and the power will be cut before any damage can occur.
In Germany, Marklin have been using 16v AC for decades, maybe even longer than 12v DC, without safety problems caused by screwdrivers across the tracks shorting the layout.
In the short detection system you describe for DC, it may be an advantage to have a short time delay to prevent interruption of power, rather than an instantaneous cutoff.
In DC layouts with block selection, it is good operating practice to keep block selection switches in the neutral position prior to setting up routes, and to return them to the neutral position when the route is done being used. This releases the block to another operator, or kills power to track not being used.
Where a DCC layout will have a constant 18 volts AC on all tracks continuously (unless equipped with block selection), a DC layout will have a maximum of 12 volts only on selected blocks. And only then if running at full-throttle.
As for Marklin, it is my understanding that their equipment, while AC-powered, does not depend on carrier-control for operation. Thus, it would be similar in wiring to a DC layout with common-rail wiring for half the circuit. The AC design simplifies things like weyes and reverse loops. This system does not carry power in the track unless a train is moving on it. It is a three-rail AC system (like Lionel), except the center rail has been replaced by a row of contact studs. A multiple-train Marklin layout would be divided into blocks controlled by DPDT switches like a DC layout. So a Marklin AC layout would be much more like a DC layout than a DCC layout.
Les
No need to have a short time delay. All you have to do is put insulated rail joiners on the frog rails, which I would recommend for DC layouts too. The example was given to illustrate the short circuit protection. There is no problem with DCC track being powered at all times. It's designed for it.
Marklin also have a DCC system which I understand has been around for 27 years, longer than NMRA DCC.
What carrier control? DCC doesn't have carrier control.
All my Bachmann E-Z Track switches use powered frogs. I do not have any that were made after their production change, which I understand involved an improved switch machine motor and wiring for DCC compatibility.
I have no experience with Marklin. If they have been using DCC for 27 years, that has been since I made the change from HO to N-scale (1979). My HO layouts (1968-79) were conventional block-controlled DC.
Even back in those days, Bachmann, although strictly entry-level stuff, was very innovative in their products, and, in my opinion, a cut above other entry-level manufacturers. Where else could you get Metroliners, TurboTrains, and TGV's?
Les
Quote from: Desertdweller on September 02, 2012, 06:04:39 PM
Where a DCC layout will have a constant 18 volts AC on all tracks continuously (unless equipped with block selection), a DC layout will have a maximum of 12 volts only on selected blocks. And only then if running at full-throttle.
Actually, a properly set up DCC layout for N scale will have between 12-14V constant. Only the very basic Bachmann EZ command system doesn't give you any option for voltage output, one of the reasons I won't sell them at our store for N scale modelers. DC layouts will have whatever voltage the throttle is set at on the blocks. Wide open on most throttles is around 18V, running speed is around 7-9v DC.
Digitrax systems have a selectable voltage output, relative to the scale you are using, 12V for N, 16V for HO and 18V for large scale.
Voltage to the track is programmable on my Lenz system. My layout is 11.5' x 11.5' with only one block. I don't have to throw any control panel switches to run a train. DCC is neither dangerous nor a fire hazard.
Marklin has had digital controls for many years, as has Lionel and MTH. It is basically DCC for AC 3 rail trains. DCC is no more dangerous than DC.
There is a lot of misunderstanding about DCC. All the books and magazines don't help. They make it seem far more complex than it really is. On a small to medium size layout you don't need power districts.
I don't have to select routes, set block switches, remember to turn them off after the train is gone, or anything like that. I just select the engine I want on my throttle and go. I can easily run 3 or 4 trains at a time on my layout.
My older layouts were DC and now I use DCC. I have plenty of experience with both. I would never go back to DC.
@Albert
Kliens appears to have re-stocked MRC DC power supply's.
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/DC-Power-Supplies-HO-N-Z-Scales-s/780.htm?searching=Y&sort=3&cat=780&show=30&page=1&brand=MRC