answer please
You and me both. I think it is expensive for the blue coller worker to model trains when there in the hundreds of dollers and at the same time supply for the family. At least they are not as expensive as Lionel :P
I agree, SOME models are very expensive, but the Bachmann standard line is pretty reasonable, and there are frequent sales online from several model railroad retailers that make the prices even better.
The reason that some models are so outrageous is because they've been ''computerized'', DCC has caused the price of a lot of equipment to sky-rocket, I have no use for fancy DCC models, and a quick browse over at the MR forums will show you that the DCC decoders are so bad and cheaply made that you don't even get 6 hrs. running time out of some of them before they burn up. In my opinion, paying extra money....[in some cases hundreds of $$$]....for something that won't work or has to be totally torn down and rebuilt is a collosal waste of resources and time.
The rolling stock prices are also a joke....sure some of the cars have all kinds of details and look great......but the more reasonably priced cars are more than passable and if you want detail, just add some to a reasonably priced car.
All that said.....there are deals a'plenty out there for the savvy and smart buyer....EBAY is a great place to find deals, but know what it is you're buying and always keep in mind that even ''new in box'' is still used because someone bought it and is selling it on EBAY ....I never pay more than 80% of retail for ''new'' equipment, and that includes shipping charges.
There are also deals lurking in you LHS,I have a place I like to browse through that has a huge selection of Athearn blue-box kits.....most are in the $4-$10 range, and just last Wed. I picked up a ''new in the box'' powered GP60 for $5....mismarked price? sale? I don't know, but deals like that are out there, you just gotta look for them.
If you like real auctions you should check your Sunday paper for auction listings, look for estate sales and and any sales that mention ''trains'', if they don't give the scale , call the auction house and ask, more than likely they will be happy to tell you all they can about the items.
If you are not picky...you can pick up vintage cars on *bay for $2-3 each.
I don't think model trains is an expensive hobby..if you know what you are looking for, and budget accordingly. My entire set of trains (some 120 of them plus tracks) cost probably less than someone's G scale loco.
Expensive is in the mind and pocketbook of the beholder. I've never gone without to buy a locomotive. It's what yoiu want to spend disposable income on.
Gene
Good Morning All,
Prices go up, that is just a fact. It would be interesting to see if there was a way to calculate the average percentage of increase in prices in comparison with other more important things in our lives such as gas, milk, etc.
One thing is for sure, along with the increase in prices in this hobby has come a drastic improvement in track, rolling stock, etc. You cannot say that about the other things we buy on a daily basis.
Quote from: erichthegerman on August 03, 2007, 11:55:35 PM
answer please
It sounds like you are still living with mom & dad. Back in 1957 when I was 16 I wanted to build a HO layout but model railroading was too "expensive". Wages where a lot lower. Used model trains were just not available. It is all relative. Every generation has asked the same question as you.
If model trains today were all made in America, the prices would be even higher. Most model trains are made in other countries (probably China) today.
Rich
It can be costly, to be sure, if you are a "connoisseur" of fine rail stock. I, for one, am just in it for sheer enjoyment and "stress reduction". I have spent only $200 and have a basic oval, with a "trombone slide" shaped extension, EZ track with integral roadbed, a 4-4-0 with tender and three cars, obviously a power pack/controller, two buildings, and even four trees! And all for about $200. Just keep an eye on prices as you shop and move around. Plus, all the stuff I've mentioned was purchased new, not used. My train shop has decent prices, I think.
Hope this helps. :)
mlt1
nothing is too expensive..ever.
everything sells at the exact price its supposed to sell at.
I cant afford a Ferrari..that doesnt mean Ferrari's are "too expensive"..
All Ferrari's sell at the exact price they are supposed to sell at.
If Bachmann came out with a new locomotive, say the Forney, and said "these will cost five thousand dollars each..enjoy!"
and not ONE sold for that price..that would be too expensive.
then the price would come down until the "correct" price was found that people would buy them at, and that still made some profit for Bachmann.
nothing is too expensive..not the item itself..it might be too much money for you or me to afford! but thats a totally different issue.
Scot
Quote from: SteamGene on August 04, 2007, 06:51:48 AM
Expensive is in the mind and pocketbook of the beholder. I've never gone without to buy a locomotive. It's what yoiu want to spend disposable income on.
Gene
Exactly! Which I why I'm getting a job as soon as I'm 14!!!! Yay for money!!!
Its a 'relative thing'. When I was younger, I thought model train prices were expensive. But then I also thought a nice sized 3 bedroom ranch home with finished basement was very expensive because the asking price was $35,000!
(and I also thought that when, as a public school teacher, I made $10,000 a year teaching, I would really be 'in the chips'. I started at $5,000 a year for high school teaching). But it was all relative ... gas was .25-.40 a gallon, and $50.00 would buy more food than a family of four could consume in a week.)
One other point you might want to consider ... 'hobbies' are always expensive. In fact, I personally think that all forms of 'entertainment' are very expensive. But people are willing to pay discretionary funds for what they like to do for recreation. It doesn't matter what your recreation is ... fishing, hunting, model railroading, biking, etc., etc., ... all 'hobbies' and recreation are expensive (except maybe for running or walking which only requires the price of a good pair of shoes :))
If you want quality model rr stuff, check eBay. There are some incredible deals available if you are very careful and patient.
finally, remember, the cost of living in general will dictate what hobby stuff is going to cost. Here in central Iowa I recently saw a sign by a Taco Bell restaurant which offered starting wage of $8.50 per hour. Wages like this for entry level help mean that 'stuff' is going to cost more ... all stuff including model trains.
lanny nicolet
Quote from: lanny on August 04, 2007, 03:20:08 PM
Its a 'relative thing'. When I was younger, I thought model train prices were expensive. But then I also thought a nice sized 3 bedroom ranch home with finished basement was very expensive because the asking price was $35,000!
(and I also thought that when, as a public school teacher, I made $10,000 a year teaching, I would really be 'in the chips'. I started at $5,000 a year for high school teaching). But it was all relative ... gas was .25-.40 a gallon, and $50.00 would buy more food than a family of four could consume in a week.)
One other point you might want to consider ... 'hobbies' are always expensive. In fact, I personally think that all forms of 'entertainment' are very expensive. But people are willing to pay discretionary funds for what they like to do for recreation. It doesn't matter what your recreation is ... fishing, hunting, model railroading, biking, etc., etc., ... all 'hobbies' and recreation are expensive (except maybe for running or walking which only requires the price of a good pair of shoes :))
If you want quality model rr stuff, check eBay. There are some incredible deals available if you are very careful and patient.
finally, remember, the cost of living in general will dictate what hobby stuff is going to cost. Here in central Iowa I recently saw a sign by a Taco Bell restaurant which offered starting wage of $8.50 per hour. Wages like this for entry level help mean that 'stuff' is going to cost more ... all stuff including model trains.
lanny nicolet
You sure got that right Lanny!! :D
When I lived in VA, I would buy a hunting license...it was $12 if I remember right, then I'd buy 4 or 5 boxes of buckshot, $6 to $8 a box and then I'd set aside $100 or so for gas [we had to drive a looonnnggg way to hunt]....that combined with food and clothes and all the extras really adds up!! All that for a 2 week season and no guarentee of any meat in the freezer. Some people would consider that ''too expensive''.....now my yearly fishing\hunting budget is around $200 [unless I find a rifle\shotgun I HAVE to buy!]....license, ammo,Cabelas bargain cave, gas for the truck and boat.....not so expensive now, but I don't have to drive anywhere except to the top of the hill! But I have seen guys spend thousands on hunting\fishing trips, and come back with pictures and stories and thats all....but if thats what they want to do.....by all means DO IT!
Expensive is relative to how bad someone wants it[I think we all saw that mass of railroad stuff up for sale on EBAY a few weeks ago that looked like a rummage sale....TYCO, old Life-Like, and it sold for almost $4,000,
someone wanted it, I personally wouldn't have paid more than $300].
I don't think spending tons of money on technology that doesn't work is a good idea, I enjoy DC model railroading and will leave the DCC stuff to those that care for it....as well as those pricey rolling stock offerings.....I like my old Bachmann,Life-Like, AHM and TYCO cars.....some of them are really nice. I recently figured up how much I've spent on EBAY, I got 90% of my current layout equipment and scenery from EBAY, and it came to $1300 +\-, thats for almost 4 years of buying ....that's $350 a year +\-, not bad at all for a hobby......I build plastic armor\aircraft\ships too, and I'm quite sure I've spent wayyyyy more than $350 for kits in a years time.
If you're a smart shopper you can find deals.....just gotta look for them.
Edit part here...> Recently on a segment of ''Boneyard'' on the History channel....a guy paid $176,000.00 for a seized Shelby Cobra....the current ''market'' price for said car...is around $100,000.00, he wanted it, he paid for it, I imagine he was thrilled, I also imagine that his hobby is cars....now theres an expensive hobby!
An expensive hobby? Try wine collecting! Guess how much a bottle of 1929 Lafite Rotschilde would cost? Then guess if it had a certificate that it has sat in the wine celler of Chateau Lafite since the autum of 1931!
And what would you do? Drink it? It doesn't come back out of the tunnel! :D
Gene
There are two general aspects that affect the cost of manufacturing something. One is upfront non-recurring costs for design and tooling, and the second is continuing costs of production of labor, materials, plastic, paint, maintenance etc.. If only one unit is produced the actual cost is all the non-recurring cost and the production cost for one item. If the upfront design and tooling costs are $100,000 and materials is $2 the single item costs $100,002 to make. If 50,000 units are produced to cost per unit is $4 each. If millions are produced it can get even cheaper, like many home electronics devices. Model trains are a smaller market, and this has an effect on cost per unit, and how many new and different units the manufacturers can produce and sell.
This is part of the cost challenge for model railroading too, so go out and recruit new model railroaders today! :D
Have fun,
Charles
Trains are only as expensive as you let them be. You can often find good discounts on most equipment.
But--a basic lesson in what foes into that price:
1. Someone has to design the model. The plasn you see in a magazine are just the beginning. 3-dimensional working drawings must be made of eash part.
2. Tooling has to be made with which the model's parts will be made.
3. The parts must be made.
4. All the parts must be assembled into the completed model, painted, and hopefully tested.
5. Now the finished models have to enter the distribution chain. The Manufacturer has to ship to a distributor. The distributor has to sell to the dealers, who then sell to you. Everyone gets his cut. Sometimes large-volume purchasers are rewarded with cut prices. If these are dealers, they usually pass the cuts along to you, the buyer.
gj
Try getting married.....
or divorced.
Quote from: ebtbob on August 04, 2007, 07:01:48 AM
Prices go up, that is just a fact. It would be interesting to see if there was a way to calculate the average percentage of increase in prices in comparison with other more important things in our lives such as gas, milk, etc.
Well, you asked for it...and I think this is a good idea: Let use one of the most common Bachmann N scale products, which also happens to be the cheapest over the years, the D R G & W (Denver & Rio Grande) 41' Box Car, as an experiment..
Year Catalog# MSRP Manufacturing Tooling Notes
1968 6115 $1.50 Hong Kong 1
1969 5066 $1.50 2
1973 $1.75 3
1976 $2.25
1979 $2.50
1985 53-1000 $3.50 4
1992 70050 $4.00 China 5
1996 $4.50
1997 $4.75
1999 $5.42
2001 70089 $10.00 6 "Cookie Box" Paint scheme
2007 70089 $10.00 "Cookie Box" Paint scheme
The annual averaged inflation rate of this product is 4.9848%.
Notice that the true inflation rate for the past 40 years is 4.7505%
If Bachmann were to charge this car exactly the price that reflects the true inflation rate, the 2007 price should be $9.17 instead of $10.00...or put it this way, Bachmann "made" a profit of 0.2343% a year.
Keep in mind that the last tooling was done in probably 1999, and Bachmann had five tooling during its entire 40 years history, and for this product it probably has 6 tooling, so you need to account for depreciation cost of the old machineries. Running factories from China instead of Hong Kong around possibly 1991, also temporarily lower the cost of operation, but then there is the start up cost for the new factory. All in all, quite a complex matter.
Of course, all we know is that the company is obviously making a profit...(you can read the annual financial report to the stockholders...)
Lannie: I too was a teacher and I remember gas at .34 cents a gallon and starting for $5400 a year (that was 1967). This was a time when you could get an Athearn box car kit for under two bucks.
Hobbies are all expensive. My neighbor's boat died this week in the middle of LI Sound - engine work will be in the area of 5 grand. Have you seen the price of fishing reels?
Golf is another expensive hobby/sport. RC airplanes are a great hobby and tend to be expensive.
Collecting wine is expensive, as mentioned above, but how about the cigar afficianados who pay $75 for a smoke?
Best bet with trains is to decide on exactly what you want and focus in on acquiring a piece at a time. Sets are nice but often you are paying for stuff you don't need or want. Part of the great attraction to model railroading is the opportunities that develop. You can learn to be a carpenter. Teaching yourself some basic electronics is a good thing. I personally found doing scenery very relaxing. Once the initial outlay is done there is plenty to do that only requires spending some time and minimal expense.
People new to the hobby want the latest engine such as a big boy, challenger and all the DCC bells and whistles. Then they find out that they have no idea what they are doing!
Quotewhy are model trains so expensive
They aren't. I've never paid anything even close to retail, nor would I. Model trains are one of the many products that can frequently be acquired very reasonably if you are savvy.
Examples:
I recently picked up four powered proto locomotives from MB Klein for $100.00 total and two Stewart F units for $65.00 total. I got two children involved in railroad modeling last Christmas by gifting them each a complete Athearn train set with EZ track. They cost only $50.00 each, with shipping included and came with a bonus Genesis freight car. My Genesis steam locomotives were each less than $60.00 and my Spectrum steam locomotives were less than $50.00. 100 yards of flex track and cork roadbed? $125.00 total.
This hobby can be very inexpensive if that is your goal. It certainly is mine.
Quote from: Craig on August 05, 2007, 11:30:20 AM
Quotewhy are model trains so expensive
I got two children involved in railroad modeling last Christmas by gifting them each a complete Athearn train set with EZ track. They cost only $50.00 each, with shipping included and came with a bonus Genesis freight car.
That is so sweet! ;D
I spend a lot on this stuff- and I have been in it a long time. But for what you get, Mein Gott!
In the '40s- wayyyy before MY time- model trains were so expensive that the kits were sold in sections- mechanism, superstructure and tender, usually. A locomotive cost a week's salary- or even a month's. Mantua's 4-6-2 kit was $47.50- about $475.00 in today's money... And it was A KIT!!
Conversely, the On30 Forney I rec'd today would have cost $18.-20.00 back then.
The model railroader has never had it so good. I have always been a brass guy- they always looked so much better than the alternative. And I still buy brass. But I have recently purchased a pair of gorgeous 4-4-0s, three beautiful 4-6-0s and a couple 2-10-2s- add in this On30 dude and it all comes to half of a brass loco. And these things are as detailed as the older PFM and Max Gray models that still bring hundreds on eBay. Every time I look closely at these newer models, I am amazed. Add to it the flawless running on most- Hey! It's a deal!
The Old Man on the (Woodland Scenics)Mountain
Compared to what? This hobby is no different than life. Some cars are less expensive than others. Some houses are cheaper than others.
People pay $3.00 for a gallon of gas, and cry. They pay $4.00 for a cup of coffee and it's a bargain.
This is another pointless waste of electrons.
January 1951 Model Railroader cost .35, Athearn cars 2.50-2.75, Mantua 2-8-2 29.95,Penn. scale models PCC car 16.95, Bowser 4-6-6-4 less tender 52.50,Hobbytown E-7 kit 29.95. In 1951 I had a part time job in a drug store, I was paid 50 cents an hour. Six months down the road I would graduate from high school and went to work delivering telegrams for western union. Today part time work for a high school student is something like 7.50 an hour. I think that is 15 time more than I was paid. At that rate M. R. would cost 5.05, Bower 4-6-6-4 would cost 787.50. So things are not so bad. You get a far better model today. I just wish they were made in the U.S. with people who took pride in their work.