Well, since a Spectrum Caboose and Spetrum freight cars were made, I was wondering if we would see any Spectrum Passenger Cars in the future. The current passenger cars we see are nice, but I was they would be nicer if the interior had opening doors, a removable roof to show off the details, LED lighting, metal trucks with better light pick-ups, and better detailed seats. With the Spectrum 3rd Generation 4-4-0s out, and C-19s out, it would be nice to have Spectrum class coaches with Spectrum Baggage cars, Spectrum Combines, Spectrum Full Coaches, and Spectrum Observations, all in higher quality than the current ones available on the market to compete with Accucraft and their high prices. Bachmann could make really nice Spectrum Coaches, and I'm willing to pay extra bucks to give my 4-4-0s something nicer to pull. We could have really beautiful passenger cars out from the Spectrum Series.
I am curious what folks would be willing to pay for a passenger car in the 1:20.3 Spectrum large scale series.......
Yardmaster,
I would say if you maintained a similar pricing differential on the passenger equipment as you did on the D&RGW caboose compared to Accucraft, I would think they would sell well. The level of detail fidelity and overall quality of the caboose relative to Accucraft made the caboose a great value at a fair price point. I own one caboose and wish my budget would allow for another.
I am sure there are those who will disagree, but that is my tuppence worth.
Bob C.
Yardmaster,
Just answering the question from my perspective. I paid $150-$250 for my current coaches. I would pay more for something "different". Closed vestibules or non-Jackson Sharpe cars. Some properly scaled "shorter" coaches to go with my Spectrum 4-4-0 would be most welcomed. Honestly I'd go $300.00 for the right car.
Thanks for asking!
What would be nice is a plastic version of the San Juan set. The main issue is that all the cars are different in some way. Roof, length, width, height. Of course these are limited to DRGW lettering only.
Pricing would be expected in the 200.00 range.
I do have drawings for these cars in addition to many of the DRGW coaches.
Question is how many cars need to be run of a single type to make the run possible?
As others have said, I'd like to see a car in the $150 street price range.
Yardmaster,
I would be willing to pay ~$200 for a detailed passenger car, with metal wheels and low resistance power pickups, LED lighting (interior & exterior) and quality interior detail.
Unfortunately, for me this is a little late. I have more than enough of the D&RGW passenger cars. I might buy some head end cars; baggage, postal, and combine. Only if in Rio Grange gold. $250 would be within reason.
Chuck
$150 range. With Accucraft at $209.They have an established market. Need to come in less if one wants to penetrate this market.
$150.00 to $250.00 would be great, the lower price I would prefer. But what does reality say ?
I would defiantly buy a consist for my K-27's after I purchase at least 1 C-19, in the Flying Rio Grande.
I need a 2nd job to support my obsession with the Denver & Rio Grande Western, Spectrum Narrow Gauge rolling stock. There are to good !!!!!
I have an AccuCraft K27 and AMS cars to match it - passenger and freight. Of course, I, too, would like to see something affordable on sale.
However, we have to be realistic, and get real about the facts of life - with the recent surpise prices of the Forney - north of a thousand dollars, the C-19, nice, but $1500?, the chances of seeing a sub-$400-500 1:20.3 scale passenger car with all the detail we now expect is fantasy.
Here in yUK there are a larger number of people than you might think who collect and run North American style trains - I'm only one of them, but here we have to contend with a dollar/pound rate that is one for one, or worse. As a result of that, Bachmann prolly sold less than half a dozen of the new Forneys - total - here in all of the UK.
Coming back to the 'new cars' - there is no way on earth that I'm going to be paying $500 for ANY kind of a LS passenger car - my AMS cars were bought as part of a deal five years ago, and THEY were $350 each.
Like the man noted a long time ago, it's hard to fly with eagles when you're a turkey - these days, wanting 'big' and 'scale' and 'feature-packed' all in the same item equals big money needed.
Realism hurts the ego, and the pocket.
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
I would like to see a passenger car reasonably accurately scaled to 1:20.3, but with the amount of detail in the big haulers to keep the costs down. The buyer then can super-detail to their needs or leave as is.
Thanks for asking for our opinion
Alec
The street price would have to be lower than Accucraft cars
Another suggestion would be to build 'empty' passenger cars, and have the interior a separately available drop-in. Its been done in other scales, it would work here as well.
Quote from: alecescolme on October 02, 2012, 11:21:45 AM
I would like to see a passenger car reasonably accurately scaled to 1:20.3, but with the amount of detail in the big haulers to keep the costs down. The buyer then can super-detail to their needs or leave as is.
Thanks for asking for our opinion
Alec
I think that would be my preference too, or an optional drop in interior
I like the big hauler passenger cars, but they look too small behind the Connie or the Shay - they look fine behind the 2-4-2 and the Indy tough.
I would like Bachmann to do a simple rescaling to 1:20.3 of the existing big hauler cars, with a similar level of detail (maybe even the same trucks) a one piece sketch interior and no lighting. A MRSP double that of the old big hauler cars seems reasonable.
Upgraded interiors, lighting and metal trucks could be added by us (or supplied separately by Bachmann for the all thumbs brigade).
I could then park 1:22.5 and 1:20.3 trains on different sidings and no one would notice they are not to the same scale (forced perspective anyone?)
I would order half a dozen today.
Thanks for asking
Yes;
I also agree completely with Alec.
Chuck
Certainly within the aforementioned AMS cars but the question is, is there really room for that? I think Bachmann has done a wonderful job on its large scale line and Spectrum 1:20.3 passenger cars would certainly be hard even for the other company to beat.
The only thing that I could see would be to move from Jackson and Sharp to something a little different, perhaps Carter Brothers or other builder.
Instead what I would suggest would be to do a Spectrum quality drovers caboose. In 1:20.3 scale there is nothing available. It could even be something like the Pacific Coast caboose that is now residing on a full scale trestle at the Sacramento rail museum. Generic enough to fit with almost anything.
What about a Jsckson Sharp car with a duckbill roof?? This would give a product that would be different from what is curently on the market but would work along with it, give the buyers a choice resulting in more sales.
Check the book Narrow Gauge Varnish, I belive the Drango & Silverton rebuilt a few cars all with Duckbill roofs.
Maybe a car like the Denver would work with the 4-4-0 & 2-6-0. Just another idea to think about.
Chuck
How about a Billmeyer & Smalls 13-window coach? Particularly one with panel siding as opposed to tongue-in-grove? They were fairly common all across the country, changing hands and sometimes configurations as railroads closed down and passenger equipment went elsewhere. Also, a nice visual contrast to the Accucraft car, but still looking great in a train.
Whatever may be produced, make the roof removable without having to disassemble the entire car. That's my biggest pet peeve with the Accucraft cars--you can't simply do an interior because the roof isn't removable. Royal pain!
In terms of price, I'd like to see it under $200. Once the AMS cars crossed that threshold, I stopped thinking about buying more. Ideally, I'd love to see a street price around $150 - $170.
Later,
K
Hey,
I would like to see overtons, just like the Sierra types Aristo made, but in 20,3. These cars were wonderful short and it's possible to run more than two-car-trains on smaller layouts.
steamrusty
I would love to see something like the sierra cars, only 2 windows longer
I'd LOVE to see some West Coast Carter Brothers duckbill cars - along the lines of those David Fletcher did for his MasterClass. It seems like just about everything produced for the narrow gauge market from HOn3 to On3/On30 to large scale is almost always based around Colorado prototypes, and with the possible exception of Maine 2-footers, very little being produced for narrow gauge elsewhere. The west coast was full of narrow gauge (and so was the east coast), but if this is one's preference, he's kind of out in the cold and has to build it himself - especially when it comes to rolling stock.
I think On30, in which Bachmann has been VERY successful, shows that there's a place for non-Colorado prototypes - not the central and southern American stuff Bachmann seems to have (or at used to have had) a preference for, but American prototypes from areas other than Colorado. As On30 has demonstrated, there's a lot of free-lancers out there that don't want to model the D&RGW or the C&S or the RGS. MHO.
The problem with the Accucraft coaches isn't only the price but also the weight of the brass is too heavy for a Spectrum 4-4-0 or 2-6-0 to pull, and the big Haulers are nice but not as good as what we could get with Spectrum. They can use the truck designs the 4-4-0 and 2-6-0s have on their tenders, nice burgandy ones too, and the pick ups can lay on top of the axle rather than skim the wheels like they do on the big haulers. Skimming the wheels adds more friction and reistance, oiling them just makes the tracks too slippery and will cause the locomotives to slip. Spectrum coaches would be wonderful, Jackson Sharp, Kimball, McKee, Overton, there are a lot to choose from. We can really have beautiful coaches. Also road names
Denver & Rio Grande Western
Colorado & Southern
Rio Grande Southern
Eastern Tennessee & North Carolina Western
East Broad Top
South Pacific Coast
North Pacific Coast
Nevada County Narrow Gauge
Eureka & Palisade
As well as painted unlettered in Green, Golden Yellow, Roset Red, Or Creamy white.
The cost would be about $350 for the normal retail, but the average price per coach out there would more likely be $150-$235. So that would not be bad, and they would look great behind the C-19, K-27, 4-4-0, 2-6-0, 2-8-0, Forney, and even the Big Haulers 4-6-0.
I would love to see a spectrum passenger car in 1:20.3 scale, I think a short style would look great with the 4-4-0 and 4-6-0 locomotives, if it ran around $300.00 retail and sold for around $200.00 to 225.00 would be great. Rio Grande is a must in a roadname. Please go with the spectrum caboose style of add ons, grab irons, lights, stove and stack, and etc.. One can wish :o
If Bachmann manufactured Carters Brothers coaches in 1:20.3 scale, they wouldn't be competing with AMS.
Carters Brothers coaches would be a more accurate choice for pulling behind the Centennial 4-4-0 and 2-6-0.
No manufacturer currently produces Carters Brothers coaches.
Quote from: R. J. Raleigh on October 07, 2012, 02:51:43 AM
If Bachmann manufactured Carters Brothers coaches in 1:20.3 scale, they wouldn't be competing with AMS.
Carters Brothers coaches would be a more accurate choice for pulling behind the Centennial 4-4-0 and 2-6-0.
No manufacturer currently produces Carters Brothers coaches.
Yup. Agree with that. No point repeating what another manufacturer already produces.
Carter Brothers sounds nice.
Hopefully The Bachmann Reads our ideas. :)
Large scale $$$$ is getting out of hand, at least for me. Mostly out of the box too, with little assembly needed. Not much of a hobby for those like me who like to build rather than just operate. With so many different passenger car types and configurations, I wonder if a basic frame and roof and ends with component sides (slabs, various windows, baggage doors, etc.) plus interior parts like seats and etc. would would sell? Also, truck frames to match specific types and railroads. Prototype length would be a problem, unless even the roofs and floors were different. I bash a lot of Big Hauler cars - especially kits - to get close to what I want, such as Durango & Silverton cars. The G market is probably not large enough for this. Dick
Quote from: laxrebel on October 11, 2012, 11:54:38 AM
Large scale $$$$ is getting out of hand, at least for me. Mostly out of the box too, with little assembly needed. Not much of a hobby for those like me who like to build rather than just operate. With so many different passenger car types and configurations, I wonder if a basic frame and roof and ends with component sides (slabs, various windows, baggage doors, etc.) plus interior parts like seats and etc. would would sell? Also, truck frames to match specific types and railroads. Prototype length would be a problem, unless even the roofs and floors were different. I bash a lot of Big Hauler cars - especially kits - to get close to what I want, such as Durango & Silverton cars. The G market is probably not large enough for this. Dick
I'm with you about Bachmann supplying components to make different cars, but I'm afraid it's not going to happen. They tried it before with their kits and their last boxes are still gathering dust at stockists shelves. I enjoyed bashing them, but most modelers now have nor the time nor the inclination to build things. That's why I think that, to keep costs down, Bachmann could produce new cars with a maximum of existing parts (trucks, etc), finished on the outside but with simple inside detail, which is difficult to see anyway - who can see the Spectrum caboose interior? If someone wants inside detail it can build it, or order it separately.
Quote from: laxrebel on October 11, 2012, 11:54:38 AM
...Not much of a hobby for those like me who like to build rather than just operate...
What's keeping you from building? There's no lack of detail parts, wheels, trucks, etc. I'd argue the RTR stuff we're seeing has been a boon to the scratchbuilder/kitbasher, since it provides an ever-broadening array of "starting points." The 2nd-hand market is ripe for the picking for those looking for bits and pieces at discount prices. The more you build, the deeper your spare parts bin gets, which saves you even more money. (To say nothing of being able to trade with other modelers whose scrap bins overfloweth.)
Later,
K
Quote
I'm with you about Bachmann supplying components to make different cars, but I'm afraid it's not going to happen. They tried it before with their kits and their last boxes are still gathering dust at stockists shelves. I enjoyed bashing them, but most modelers now have nor the time nor the inclination to build things. That's why I think that, to keep costs down, Bachmann could produce new cars with a maximum of existing parts (trucks, etc), finished on the outside but with simple inside detail, which is difficult to see anyway - who can see the Spectrum caboose interior? If someone wants inside detail it can build it, or order it separately.
I think that's not wholly true. I agree that large scale modellers seem not to want to do too much modelling and prefer running their favourite trains in the garden rather than following a particular prototype or even creating something that looks like a real railroad. However, in the smaller scales, it's a different case and people do seem willing to spend time over their creations.
Perhaps it makes sense. After all, why go to great effort to kit/scratch build a perfect Carter Bros passenger car if it's going to stand next to a 1 to 1 scale garden pond.
To S Ry, I disagree with you. Hardly a car or engine on my Belden Falls Ry is straight out of the box. In fact, many are hard to identify as to origin, and all are custom lettered. Even my live steam locos costing many $$s get the treatment. Many large scalers I know who may not go to my degree of kitbashing or scratch building do follow a theme, buying and running equipment that follows a logical plan.
I agree that any new 1:20.3 passenger cars should be different that what is out there now, and with most of the other points already mentioned.
The razor saw and styrene are ready to go---
Larry
Overall, honestly, I think we should get 1:20.3 scale Spectrum coaches for narrow gauge but something different from Jackson Sharp.
Carter Bro's coaches would be my vote as well. Nice to see something different than what is available, yet compatible.
I think they would sell extremely well, i know i would pick up a coach and combine immediately.
Also, offer undecorated, and west coast NG lines. Pacific Coast, and others come to mind.
I do not care what brand (J&S), Carter or prototype they follow, though I would agree to something a little different as long as the cars are truely 1:20.3 in proportion.
I wonder if Bachmann has any input?
I would say at least the same range as the long cabpoose--
I would first want to go with an RPO-Baggage, and a coach with optional bay window--tobe able to run a train similar to the Chili Line abd other short/mixed trains. Or to "test the waters, a combine with an optional cupola--I have seen the Accucraft cars and think they are too long for me.
Glenn Joesten
Another possible extension from a Combine could be a "What-If"-A "Colorado Rail Annual" recently, covering the narrow gauge passenger cars--showed a proposal for a motorcar from a combine similar to the one that was converted from a standard gauge car.
Glenn: the Accucraft passenger cars are scale correct. If Bachmann did similar cars in the Spectrum series they would be the same length. Chuck
I didn't say they weren't--just that they are BIG! and msny modelers might find them bigger than they think--and pass them by. gj
Hey,
in an other thread I votet for the short Sierra overtons just like the Delton/Aristo Classic, but in 20,3. These cars would be fit to all layouts.
steamrusty
The Sierra RR cars are standard gauge. They would be inappropriate orphans if done in 1:20 scale, 45mm gauge.
I think most folks working in 1:20 scale are also interested in prototypes or at least 'could have beens,' not something that is so far afield.
BTW, the Sierra cars are among my favorites. I frequently visit Railtown 1897 where the Sierra cars are stored and (very slowly) undergoing restoration. Having them available in 1:20 scale, 70.6mm gauge would be fantastic, but will never happen. I do have enough information to scratch build them should I live long enough!
Happy (Scale Model) RRing,
Jerry
How do the Uintah passenger cars compare in length to most other cars. I see from one source the had a 30' combine and other cars at 42'6". Given the constraints of that line I doubt they'd have anything long.
The Unitah #50 is a bit shorter as I remember. Car number 50 was pretty unique being metal sheathed and a combination of baggage/rpo and observation.
The C&S had a few 'shorties' as well, one combination car still survives.
Personally some of the most beautiful equipment was the early Colorado Central Billmeyer and Small duckbill cars.
Those would be nice.
We really need some Spectrum Passenger cars. :)
Just seen this thread although it is a bit old.
I have a C19, K27 and other locos. I have a selection of Big hauler, LGB and AMS coaches.
My layout has some extremely heavy gradients (there was honestly no other way of building it without really mucking up the garden etc)
So I have found that pulling the AMS coaches up the slope is just not on unless I want to always run a Loco and one coach.
So I have been motorising some Bachmann Colorado and Southern big hauler coaches and running them with some LGB gold vestibule coaches. All are in the process of being reliveried and/or re-labelled and numbered into D&RGW green.
I have seen the comments about possible 1:20.3 versions (better detailed and stronger ) of the Big Hauler Jackson Sharpe (with some differences between the models like closed vestibule, duck-billed, RPO etc.and this makes a lot of sense as long as Bachmann can produce them at a profit from a price which makes them really desirable. For folk who have a thick wallet, the AMS ones will already be an answer. For the rest of us the street price level must really be attractive.
It would be pretty easy for Bachmann to make a base model that could be changed into closed vestibules (at one or both ends), different rooves, different sides etc so that the customer could alter the base to suit themselves using a range of customising 'add-ons'. A small range of 'ready-mades' available to purchase could mirror the range already available in the Big Hauler suite and that would give Bachmann the 'core' purchase volume that they need to make it all economic.
What is an attractive street price? Well if the quality as well as detail is really upped then a street price of $150 -$200 (£100-£135) would be attractive enough to really get in the custom. They would not knock out the custom for the 1:22.5 range as the 1:20.3 models would be just too big for that market. This price would really knock Accucraft/AMS as the quality/price level would easily compete.
Would I buy them after spending all the time on converting the selection of 1:22.5 kit....well, as long as there is the range of different models and/or they have the customisation system to make different coaches, yes ..most definitely...but I would have to sell all the converted ones first! ;D
The problem with the AMS coaches are the fact that, THEY ARE TOO DARN HEAVY. Too heavy on a 4-4-0 or 2-6-0. Neither engine would be able to pull 4 cars on a layout, 1 or 2 might be the max because of the heavy brass used in their coaches.
Quote from: Chris9017 on April 03, 2013, 10:02:36 PM
The problem with the AMS coaches are the fact that, THEY ARE TOO DARN HEAVY. Too heavy on a 4-4-0 or 2-6-0. Neither engine would be able to pull 4 cars on a layout, 1 or 2 might be the max because of the heavy brass used in their coaches.
Are you referring to the brass or plastic ones? The plastic ones aren't light, but they're not heavy, either. Their biggest drawback is that the electrical pick-ups on the trucks are tantamount to working brakes! I set one of their coaches on a 4% grade and it didn't move. Remove the electrical pick-ups, and they roll much more easily.
If their weight does pose a problem for you, there's a 1/16" or so metal plate that makes up the floor of the car. You can remove that and replace it with wood or styrene.
Historical note: The Eureka (a Baldwin 8-18C nearly identical to the prototype for Bachmann's 4-4-0) develops a "whopping" 6,000 pounds tractive effort. That's not much at all. Colorado & Southern #9, a 1880s vintage 2-6-0 has a tractive effort of around 16,000 pounds. When it was running on the Georgetown Loop, it struggled to carry 5 loaded, converted freight cars worth of passengers up the 4%. The 4-4-0 would have--on a good day--mustered two passenger cars. When the Eureka was running on the C&TS and D&S, it pulled two, maybe three cars. That's why these locos were quickly replaced on the western railroads. That wheel arrangement fared much better on eastern and mid-western railroads where the grades were not nearly as steep.
By comparison, the "large" locos like the iconic Ks, EBT's mikados, mid-sized Shays and Climaxes, etc. mustered tractive efforts ranging from around 25,000 to 37,000 pounds. And even there, the C&TS has to doublehead two K-36s to pull a typical passenger train up the 4%.
Later,
K
The brass AMS coaches of course, and Bachmann's plastic coaches wouldn't be light, but would be no where near as heavy as AMS brass coaches.