What is the chemical in the smoke liquid? I tried searching it. We have fish tanks right next to the tracks so don't want to use until I know it won't affect the fish/coral.
Ethylene Glycol is one of the ingredients : (CH2OH)2
When CH2OH is heated it mixes with oxygen O2 to form an alcohol and water.
Since the Alcohol(CHO) is released into the air as vapor along with the water
I would say your fish are relatively safe. The only problem I would forsee is if
some insensitive person or uninformed child "dumped" a bunch into the fish tank
as CHO alcohol is toxic to fish gills. It would have to be quite a bit.
A few drops ? I don't think you would have a problem. What size is your tank?
Do you have a filtration system?
I have 10 gallon tanks in our "Train Room" never had a problem. I have 5 kids
17 to 9 we have a Lab and 2 cats and no-one has messed with the fish.
My 9 year old and I are the only ones who know where the "smoke fluid" is and
its our secret!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S.
The fish tanks all have covers.
Hopefully you do to
The smoke fluid that I use in my trains as well as in a Heng Long RC Tank I have is propylene glycol. As far as I know it's harmless otherwise it wouldn't come with trainsets and things that are intended to be used by children. I also know that it is used in geothermal heating systems and is the liquid that is ran through the pipes.
Propylene iglycol is similar too-structure wise.
It is relatively harmless in the way we use it "Hobby Wise".
My whole long winded post was to help put your mind at ease.
I thought it was a very thoughtful question. We have fish tanks near the layout also
but it never hurts to ask. I hope I was able to help. Enjoy those steamers!!
The smoke mechanisms used today have come a long way from years ago
Happy New Year!!!!!!!!1
The package says that it contains Propylene Glycol and Glycerin. However, the package also says that it contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer. What chemicals is this warning referring to because Propylene Glycol and Glycerin aren't known cancer causing agents.
Also, my 2-year-old son may have gotten some residue of the smoke fluid in his mouth. How much of a concern is this?
To helicopter : Virtually all the things you buy have warnings about cancer causing ingredient's in California . Either the population or the officials have been in the Sun too long . However they do make some pretty good wine. John 2 .
heli-
I wouldn't worry about it, but then it's your son, not mine! Seriously, though, even if the ingredients are carcinogenic your son would need to be exposed repeatedly over a very log time to experience any increased risk. And, as has been alluded to, just about everything seems to be labeled by California as a potential carcinogen. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Welcome to California signs are labeled as known by the state of California to be carcinogens.
-- D
Once again I wouldn't be concerned about the smoke residue from the above mentioned ingredients in the smoke liquid.
The heat element in the steamer has already caused the break down of the liquid to water, carbon dioxide and other minuscule elements.
You have more to worry about from your drinking water with the fluoride and chlorine in it!!!!
I love California, it's a beautiful state great weather, GREAT wines!!! but the wacky politicians have turned it into a "Koo-Koo Ward".
Almost anything given in massive doses for very long extended time periods could cause cancer.
Those chemicals in that liquid smoke are water soluble will break down in the liver and will filter out through the kidney. and that is if your child in jested the stuff. As any good concerned parent it's good to ask questions. If you are concerned , next time it happens just clean out his nose with a washcloth with warm water a little soap.
Hope that helps!!
Quote from: M1FredQ on December 26, 2013, 11:51:41 AM
Once again I wouldn't be concerned about the smoke residue from the above mentioned ingredients in the smoke liquid.
The heat element in the steamer has already caused the break down of the liquid to water, carbon dioxide and other minuscule elements.
This is nice to hear, but also a bit confusing. I have heard so much of how the smoke residue from steam engines deposits an oily residue on the tracks, buildings, rolling stock, ceilings and everything else in the room. If the smoke is only water vapor and carbon dioxide, where is this residue coming from?
If you go to any concert these days where they use water based fog and or haze machines, which they all do BTW that's why you can see the light beams, then you are inhaling very dilute Glycol.
If they are using oil based fog or haze fluid, then you are inhaling mineral oils.
When we haze say an arena, then the whole of the arena will be filled with haze, ditto in theatres. There's no escaping it. :)
Way more of the stuff in the air than comes from a small model locos smoke unit.
So don't worry about it.
Merry Christmas.
By Rogers comment, there seems to be more than one type of smoke generating fluid. How many are there and what are their drawbacks?
Rogertra took the words out of my mouse!!!
The residue is just plan old Mineral oil.Perfectly safe, when used the way we all are using it
Glycerin also has a "slippery" componet to it too.
Quote from: rbryce1 on December 26, 2013, 01:12:10 PM
Quote from: M1FredQ on December 26, 2013, 11:51:41 AM
Once again I wouldn't be concerned about the smoke residue from the above mentioned ingredients in the smoke liquid.
The heat element in the steamer has already caused the break down of the liquid to water, carbon dioxide and other minuscule elements.
This is nice to hear, but also a bit confusing. I have heard so much of how the smoke residue from steam engines deposits an oily residue on the tracks, buildings, rolling stock, ceilings and everything else in the room. If the smoke is only water vapor and carbon dioxide, where is this residue coming from?
I think small amounts of non vaporized fluid get spattered around, or spilled over time on a layout by the air and pumping action of smoke units. This doesn't happen overnight it often takes years. My O gauge smokers do develop a white crystal mineral residue at the stack. I clean it once a year to every two years on average, but he rest of the engine does not need constant cleaning of residue. Neither do the cars pulled around for 40+ years. I view those anti smoke comments as being as worrisome as the overprotective Cali legislature. Ive eaten at least a couple smoke pellets (before fluid) as a kid and survived without so much as a memorable belly ache. Your kid is likely in more danger from the diesel fumes of passing school buses each day. There are a few types of fluid as mentioned by others above. The main performance difference is the temp the fluid vaporizes at. As a note, most fluids are "universal", made for wicking type units, but I don't mix fluids when units are "wet". Keep wet type "Seuthe" smoke fluid in Seuthe units only, and don't use other types of fluid in a Seuthe unit. I find the Grape scented fluid I got from Pats Trains to be one of the greatest advances in model railroading technology of this century :D Huh? You don't like grapes ??? OooK ::) Try rootbeer, vanilla, chocolate, berry, No-scent (almost..yuk!), coal (yuk, but correct smell), or the many other scents available. Other companies make great scents too, so go sniffin around for some train powered air fresheners to replace that Glade Plug-in ;D. It will be one more reason to "run em"!
GG1-
I think the old smoke fluid and pellets used in the old Lionels was a different substance. The odor is certainly different.
I agree that there probably isn't a health risk at the quantities to which we are exposed but I have seen some really messed up locomotives and layouts due to the smoke fluid, and not just from spills.
-- D
Quote from: Doneldon on December 26, 2013, 10:51:10 PM
GG1-
I think the old smoke fluid and pellets used in the old Lionels was a different substance. The odor is certainly different.
I agree that there probably isn't a health risk at the quantities to which we are exposed but I have seen some really messed up locomotives and layouts due to the smoke fluid, and not just from spills.
-- D
I'd never recommend using a smoke unit for the reasons Doneldon state above. Never understood why Broadway Limited puts a smoke unit in their otherwise excellent models.
I am glad for the forum and those asking about the smoke.
In this day and age with GMO foods, aluminum and mercury laced vaccines coming from China, Geo-engineered vapor trails with Boron,Berilium and aluminum particles, I too would be curious about the smoke fluid used on my "Toy Trains"!!
The mineral Oil residue which gets"popped" onto the locomotives and some of the rolling stock never bothered me as I wipe it off with a soft bristle paint brush and I think it helps "nourish" the plastic.
I believe based on what I have looked into and 15 years of the "practice"of medicine, as well as all the chit-chatting I like to do with hobbyists from all over the States and Europe I believe the stuff to be relatively safe.
Would I put it in my coffee. NO would it hurt if I did I don't think so but you sure would free up your constipation with that mineral oil and Glycerin!!!
Thanks GG-1 and everyone I always enjoy hearing what you folks have to say!!!
This is mymost favorite hobby!!!
Merry Christmastide and Happy New Year I hope I helped. ::) ::)
Eating your train set will cause cancer. So don't do it.
Quote from: RAM on December 27, 2013, 07:23:33 PM
Eating your train set will cause cancer. So don't do it.
But.. :-\..but.. ???..but.. :-[....but.... :'(....Well, OK :P But it does smell good :D
RAM
You got that right by the time you got the cancer from eating the trainset, the parts would rip up your G.I. Tract something fierce first!!!!!
I think only Navy Seals and Army Rangers can safely handle that!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Doneldon on December 26, 2013, 10:51:10 PM
GG1-
I think the old smoke fluid and pellets used in the old Lionels was a different substance. The odor is certainly different.
I agree that there probably isn't a health risk at the quantities to which we are exposed but I have seen some really messed up locomotives and layouts due to the smoke fluid, and not just from spills.
-- D
I thought they where a glycerin tablet of sorts. Oh well, hard enough to find now that I pretty much just use fluid now.
On further research, I am not that concerned about it. For what it is worth, I happened to notice that propylene glycol and glycerine are both ingredients in my son's Oragel Toddler Training Toothpaste.
Quote from: M1FredQ on December 28, 2013, 12:19:16 PM
RAM
You got that right by the time you got the cancer from eating the trainset, the parts would rip up your G.I. Tract something fierce first!!!!!
I think only Navy Seals and Army Rangers can safely handle that!!!!!!!!!
Im hiding my tin plate from you guys >:(