Hi everyone !! I'm Mike, and new to this board. I've been a collector of Lionel trains for years, but I'm new to Williams. I have a demo Shark nose A A and a Virginian EP 5. I really like the Williams engines, but not happy with the way they run ( speed control ). Not until I read a message entitled "Great Finds While in Florida", where Joe Satnik talked about moving the blue and yellow wires (blue front-yellow rear) from parallel to series, for better slower control. I first did this to the sharks, and what a big difference it makes. It gives a more realistic look to the speed of the train, and it even makes the head lights brighter. Next I did it to the EP 5. The thing with an EP 5 is it has two cabs. So where is the front motor ? The directions say blue from the front motor, and yellow from the rear motor. Oh well, no big deal. I did it both ways, and the engine ran the same with the connections either way. So now both engines run better. Sorry for the long post !! Lots of interesting reading on here !! Thanks, Mike
Mike,
Welcome to the World Of Williams Electric Trains. I started with an A-A set of Pennsy Alco FAs and I now own six WbB locomotives. You will be very pleased with the Williams product line. ;D
Cobrabob.
Pennsy Alco FAs A-A
Pennsy RF-16 Sharks A-B-A
Santa Fe F3s A-B-A
Chesapeake & Ohio BL-2
Baltimore & Ohio NW-2
Pennsy 4-6-4 small Hudson
JP of Acton MA, USA writes:
Lets not forget about
Peter Witt streetcars
Handcars
EZ Streets
motorized vehicles
Along with steam locos like
4-8-4s
6-8-6s
Hudsons
Berkshires
and a wide variety of passenger and freight cars
hope this helps
-JP
Mike
Welcome aboard and to the Williams forum. Very good people here and a great knowledge base. I am new also to Williams engines but have really enjoyed the 4 sets I have and have 2 more on the way. They are rock solid in my book.
Dear mike r,
Welcome to the B'mann board.
Thanks for the kind words.
Glad you liked the difference with the series wiring, and that I could help.
Theoretically, yellow-blue or blue-yellow makes no difference.
Either way, the DC current (from the reverser board) flows through both motors in the same direction.
(Same thing: Motor "dots" tied together, or motor "non-dots" tied together - makes no difference.)
I just wanted to keep the instructions short, so I left that (second option) out.
GG1's had an "F" printed on both sides near one end to designate the "Front".
Are there F's on your EP-5?
If so, are they on the (removable) body, or on the chassis?
Thanks.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Hi Joe, The first thing I looked for on the EP 5 was an " F " on the outside of the shell. Finding nothing, I looked for a marking on the frame, inside and outside, nothing. I made the decision to go with " front " being the direction the speaker was pointing. Anyhow, things worked out fine. Mike
Front should be the direction it goes on start-up if it is a Williams loco.
OK, Thanks, didn't know that. You folks on hear sure have a wealth of knowledge, thanks for sharing. Mike
Welcome Mike!
I have several older Williams engines, before the Bachmann buyout of Williams and even a Crown Edition engine or two. The quality of their product is great!
I wired an older Crown Edition engine straight thru using a 6 amp 50 volt bridge rectifier from Radio Shack, took out the circuit board and lost direction control but I was happy with the results.
The newer Williams by Bachmann have the same high quality, they still have metal gears.
As for series wiring I have never found the need for that. I use a transformer made by Troller Company, model TAC 2001, and it has 0 to 9 volts and 0 to 18 volts switch on it so I never had to re-wire my engines to series wiring. I can do series wiring, that is not the problem, just that I want some decent speed from my Williams engines.
Lee F.
Dear All,
Cutting down the voltage to the engines is needed in some cases because of the high starting voltages of some post-war transformers. (e.g. ZW starting voltage = 8 Vac)
If your transformer ramps all the way down to zero, there is no need to slow the loco down.
Scroll 2/3 of the way down :
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,13633.0.html
However, if you want brighter lights, better sound and more smoke , (and are willing to sacrifice a little top-end speed), changing to series (dual-motor) or adding diodes or diode bridges (single-motor) will help.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Quote from: Joe Satnik on February 21, 2013, 03:41:30 PM
GG1's had an "F" printed on both sides near one end to designate the "Front".
If your referring to the F in the paint scheme it is to mark the fuel oil inlet for the steam heat generators used with passenger cars. Some also have a W for water also. Although electric , fuel was used for the steam heaters.
I can find no photos of a GG1 with an F to designate front.To the best of my knowledge all PRR
electric box cab types were double ended and either end could "lead".The exception could be
the B type electric switchers that were originally in semi-permanent coupled pairs and were also
bi-directional.Some were eventually separated into single units that did not have a cab at each end.
The practice of designating the front came about when some railroads operated hood unit Diesels
short hood forward and some the long hood forward.This was important for placement of controls.
Some Diesels also had dual control stands.
Quote from: r0gruth on February 24, 2013, 10:45:18 PM
I can find no photos of a GG1 with an F to designate front.To the best of my knowledge all PRR
electric box cab types were double ended and either end could "lead".
GG1's are "
steeple cabs"or "center cabs". EP5's are "dual end carbody cabs""dual end cowl cabs""dual cab units"(more names are "correct" too, but I forget which)
European EP5's are the "box cabs" (& American EP3's)
Last year I was watching a black a white video(youtube maybe?) As one GG1 exits the screen (to our left), there is another GG1 stationairy behind it, on the next track. It had only an F and a W painted on it. All other GG1's equipped for passenger duty with the steam generators that I had ever seen had the whole words, in all capital letters FUEL OIL, and WATER. I only know the stationairy one was not "old rivits" nor #4912. Freight hauling GG1s did not need the oil or water like the passenger units did, and were geared for lower speeds too. So not all were labled. This may have been the case on EP-5s also. I know a "little joe" fanatic and will ask him what he thinks/knows if I can. Here is my K-line #4912 below. GG's are a 2-C-C-2 loco. "Water" is on the loco in 4 places, above the gap between the 2 and C trucks. Fuel oil is only above 2 of the gaps, and always on your right if you turn it around 180deg. So you cant tell front from rear on my loco this way. I dont know if that placement is 100% correct. It might have used only one silkscreen to print both left and right sides of the engine. Prototypes, or another brand MAY have fuel to one end only(as you turn it around fuel on left then right) I never checked before, and looking at photos can not confirm anything unless fuel is only on one end on the prototypes/others. But my curiosity is peaked and I will surely be hunting for heat answers for all 3 locos now.
(http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u570/GGa1lin/Snapshot_20130226_1_zpsd872027f.jpg)
Dear All,
Scale GG-1 4913 Tuscan 5 stripe WBB #41807
Call one end "A" the other "B"
Length not including couplers 19".
Measured from A end
One Side:
A body end = 0"
Letter "F" on low body = 1.25"
Word "WATER" on low body = 4.5"
Words "FUEL OIL" on low body = 5.25"
Door = 7"
Door = 11.75"
Word "WATER" on low body = 14.5"
"B" body end = 19"
Other Side:
A body end = 0"
Letter "F" on low body = 1.25"
Word "WATER" on low body = 4.5"
Door = 7"
Door = 11.75"
Words "FUEL OIL" on low body = 13.5"
Word "WATER" on low body = 14.25"
"B" body end = 19"
So, on this model, the paint mask has a letter "F" on both sides 1.25" from the same (A) end.
I'd have to say that in this case the two letter "F"s must mean "Front".
Looking for physical differences front and back, there is what looks to be a ~1/4" circular pipe ~1/8" tall
(burner vent or chimney?) on the roof between the 2 front doors. Other than the lettering and vent, the
GG-1 is almost perfectly symmetrical.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Joes reply belongs on Family Feud-"Good Answer, Good Answer" ;D
The "F" on a GG1 model could very well refer to the front of the model loco.
There is no designated front on an actual 1' to 1' GG1 loco.
IMHO this is not worth an argument.I do agree that a way may be needed to identify the front of the model.
Quote from: r0gruth on February 26, 2013, 10:43:20 PM
IMHO this is not worth an argument.I do agree that a way may be needed to identify the front of the model.
I meant it as a compliment only. It was a good answer. Sorry :-[ I find the variety of experience here very knowledgeable. On info, If I came across harsh. my apologies. I debate to learn myself or teach others I dont mind either ;D
And while I dont enjoy it, I want to hear when Im wrong too. Who wants to be wrong and never know it? 8)
Hey what about the steam generator end? On most other locos that was considered the rear. And would be safer there in a head on, with/or steam rupture, due to blowing into water into electrics. Why not they used the rear pantograph so an accidental broken front one wouldn't crash into the rear one leaving the loco stranded. ::) Well, it almost follows the same logic. :D
Some PRR electrics ran with both pantographs raised.
Many of the electrics were seldom turned so the front
was the end that led.The crew changed ends.
Many interurbans and street cars were operated the same way.
The motor man took the needed handles and moved to the other end.
On a trolley the pole on one end would be lowered and the other was raised.
I thought they changed pantographs when ever time allowed for equipment saftey. I know it wouldn't apply 100% of the time. I also thought it was preferred to have the steam to the rear on longer hauls after the ice and snow thru vents incident. But I never even got to experience a GG1 run first hand once. So, others would know better than me. What I always loved about the dual cabs is the ability to not have to turn the loco. Used to sometimes play in the woods along the old Ford electric line. Giant horseshoe shaped concrete cantonary supports, like tall thin dinosaur ribs. The electricity was off long before then even. I thought it was a waste not to use the system, "we might get GG1s...then new ones" I thought as a kid during the beginning of Amtrck. Most of the arches are gone now. But I think there are a couple still standing now near the "Giant Uniroyal Tire." near Detroit. The line near the Amtrack station in Dearborn might have some too.
Hey we had a trolley loop downtown in this century! Gone now. :'( Replaced by rubberwheeled trolleys ??? >:(
Welcome Mike. You found a very good place to chat and get help. Enjoy your trains!
Hey Waldo, I know where you are! ::)(bad joke, couldt help myself. Elephants work for peanuts, I work for the Corn.) Can you confirm if any arches are still up in your neck of the woods. And are they the concrete or steel ones?