Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: WoundedBear on August 27, 2007, 03:07:33 PM



Title: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: WoundedBear on August 27, 2007, 03:07:33 PM
This is to The B-Mann or any of you other model railroad experts on here.

What is the maximum recommended grade I can run Bachmann HO Shays on? 2%? 4%? 6%?

Average load on one Shay would be 4 to 6 loaded Rivarossi log cars or a string of 8 to 10 empties, with a bobber 'boose on the tail.

I may be able to improve my layout, or not, depending on the answers here.

Thanks

Sid


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: SteamGene on August 27, 2007, 05:49:12 PM
WB, I don't have one, but my understanding from talking to a few guys who own one, they climb grades like the prototype.  I think 6% with that consist is doable. 
Gene


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: Stephen D. Richards on August 28, 2007, 12:55:03 PM
WB, I agree with Gene.  I have several Bachmann Shays in HO scale and have ridden several of Cass's.  They do pull much the same as the prototypes!  Scale of course!  Stephen


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: WoundedBear on August 28, 2007, 02:08:14 PM
I'm thinking along the same lines as you guys then.

I'm still interested to hear what B-Mann recommends. In Canada, these Shays are pricey items........I wouldn't want to be "abusing" them.

Sid


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: Hoople on August 28, 2007, 09:05:14 PM
I don't want to wander off topic- But what about the Climax? I have an infamous 6% to a gravel company, and need something to pull 1-2 hoppers up. I've tried with my consolidation, and it has lots of trouble trying to get up.


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: modlerbob on August 29, 2007, 11:05:40 AM
Any loco with very small drivers would probably do the job.


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays (and Climaxes) and grades.
Post by: WoundedBear on August 29, 2007, 11:53:25 AM
No problem, Hoople ;)

They are another "gear-driven" loco.....it and the Shay are the only ones Bachmann makes, so we might as well include them in this discussion. I had two Climaxes.....lmao...I know...too much info...lololol....anyhow....one died and was replaced with a Shay.

I usually limit the load on one Climax to half of what I expect a Shay to haul, although, double headed Climaxes not only looked great, they pulled wonderfully. Now the single Climax is relegated to MOW work and moving the camp cars from their nightly berth at the camp, to their daily spot up near the logging area.

While the Climax is there, it may switch out a few empties for loaded cars and perhaps haul a couple loaded cars to the mill. I was advised by service, not to strain the Climax too much....sounds like they've had some trouble with some components.

With that said, all there is to do now is sit and wait for replies.

Mr. B-Mann.....any input here?

Sid


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: the Bach-man on September 01, 2007, 10:59:37 PM
Dear Bear,
I'd guess the grades on Riley's Run are in the 5% area, and the On30 Shays perk away all day. The HO should do as well. If your grades are too steep you'll have to add a helper.
Have fun!
the Bach-man


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: WoundedBear on September 02, 2007, 09:10:36 AM
Thank you, Mr B.

I guess my biggest source of confusion now, comes from conflicting statements. I had asked a person ( I have their name) in your service department about this as well.

They advised me that the HO Shays and Climaxes were designed for 2% grades and nothing any steeper, and that is why the crankshaft failed.

Mr B....if you'd rather, we can continue this discussion off the boards. I'm really concerned about the possibility of having to redesign a lot of my grades, and certainly don't want to be hard on these models.

This is not meant to be a bash on Bachmann locomotives........all I'm trying to confirm here, are "recommended practices".

Thanks for the assistance,

Sid


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: the Bach-man on September 02, 2007, 11:23:27 AM
Dear Bear,
I heard a similar story at the convention. We will look  into it Tuesday. I have had no trouble running locos on the layout, and sometimes they run for ten hours straight. I'll let you know.
Thanks!
the Bach-man


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: WoundedBear on September 02, 2007, 11:43:34 AM
And I, Sir, appreciate the quick response. I look forward to reading your conclusions.

Sid


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: WoundedBear on September 06, 2007, 02:47:03 PM
?

Sid


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: BaltoOhioRRfan on September 06, 2007, 06:31:43 PM
I have one of the shays lettered for B&O(before any one says B&O Didnt have shays, your wrong, they had 3) I had it go up a pretty decent grade one day with 2 spectrum passenger cars behind it. If i'ts a sudden grade i can see the drive shaft failing, but if you east into it and off of it say a 2%-4%-6%-4%-2% you should have no problem. Just dont go straight into a 6% grade. that is asking not only for drive shaft problems but uncoupling problems.


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: WoundedBear on September 06, 2007, 07:11:58 PM
I knew all about easements...both for curves and grades....before I laid a single piece of track.  ;) Still, it's a good reminder.

Every curve and grade is transitioned. I have absolutely no derailment troubles at all. I'm concerned that the drivelines fail, under load, before the wheels slip.


Sid


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: the Bach-man on September 06, 2007, 11:05:00 PM
Dear Sid,
Mr Riley is out of town. I'll ask him if/ when he calls.
Have fun!
the Bach-man


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: mattyg1306 on September 11, 2007, 02:56:50 AM
Hi!

I also have two Shays...my layout has been down for a while (over a year...I'm hoping to have it rebuilt in the next few months!), but when I did operate the Shays, they always hauled and handled unbelievably well...much like the prototype.

I have one BIG question:  Did Bachmann discontinue the prototype Cass Scenic Railroad (CSRR) Shay (Steel Cab)?  I live in WV, and CSRR is the reason I even started railroading (I already have one CSRR Bachmann Shay, but was planning to buy another for display), and it would be a shame if it were no longer represented in the model railroading trade (it took long enough as it was...lol!).  If it is discontinued, why just the CSRR and no others (now don't get any bad ideas with that statement...! :'()? 

Another Shay suggestion:  there are multiple "types" of 3 truck shays (CSRR itself has a wide variety), such as Pacific Coast, and just simply different versions of the original (Cass #4 and Meadow River #7, for example...or even WM #6 or WVP&P #12).  Is there any chance that these different variations will be produced by Bachmann any time in the not-too-distant future? 

Also, it would also be a good idea for Bachmann to model the CSRR tourist cars to accompany said Shay...I have scratchbuilt a couple modeled after Cass' first generation with your ACF log cars, but it would be great if a company would mass produce them, even if only for a limited run.  Even if not modeled after Cass, Great Smoky Mountains RR also has a variation on the cars, as do the Georgetown Loop and Durango and Silverton.  I have always wondered why tourist railroading has never been represented in HO, they are what most common people come in contact with when it comes to trains these days...commercial railroads are dwindling! 

Thanks for reading...looking forward to a reply!

 ;D


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: Stephen D. Richards on September 11, 2007, 08:07:11 AM
mattyg1306, 
I too live in WV and have always been spell bound by the CSRR Shay's.  Yes, Bachmann stopped modeling the Cass #5!  It's a shame but they rotate what they produce and the #5 will probably surface again sometime.  I had bought one prior to last Christmas and when the new catalog came out, I searched the internet and bought two more!  I have enough Shays now to model all of the ones CSRR has operating except the #2 Pacific Coast.  It is suppossed to be the bigger firebox etc.  I didn't see alot of difference but I may not know what I'm looking at either.  I have been in the hobby for about 18 months so I am still an infant here!  So to speak.  I also have the Climax (that is in pieces now) and the Heisler!  I found the factory decorated Cass Heisler by Rivorossi!     Stephen


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: mattyg1306 on September 11, 2007, 07:32:46 PM
That's a shame they stopped modeling #5...it was the prototype for the Bachmann Shay!  But like you said, maybe it will surface again sometime soon...

There is some difference in the general design between CSRR #5 and #4, etc (although Cass' original Greenbrier and Elk RR #4 was said to be #5's twin sister, along with CSRR #1, which is at the B&O museum).  For one thing, #5 is much older, so there is the basic evolution of machinery over the period of time between #5 being built and #4's construction (like comparing a Ford Mustang from the 1970s to one made in the 2000s.).  The engine pretty much operates the same, so the difference is mainly in the way the cylinders and gear work are designed and appear...a great deal is just cosmetic.  If you look at a picture of Shay #5 next to Shay #4, you might see what I'm talking about...#4 has a more "rounded" look in some places.  Just like looking at human blood...its all red and runs through veins, but its chemistry varies from person to person (A+, A-, O, etc.).

Anyway, you say you have a lot of CSRR equipment...did you build any tourist cars for your layout?

 ;D


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: WoundedBear on September 25, 2007, 11:48:52 AM
Just a little nudge up the list.....*bump*...... ;)

Mr. B-mann.....any answers yet?

Sid


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: the Bach-man on September 26, 2007, 10:53:53 PM
Dear All,
I'll pass along the requests. As with the Climax, any loco can make a comeback, but we can't make every one every year!
Have fun!
the Bach-man


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: WoundedBear on September 27, 2007, 10:48:06 AM
.............and I'm still wondering if you have spoken with Mr. Riley about the grade issue?

Sid


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: the Bach-man on September 28, 2007, 11:30:34 PM
Dear Sid,
I spoke to Mr. Rriley, and we are of the same opinion: if the grade is too steep, the loco will need a helper, but it should not hurt the loco.
Have fun!
the Bach-man


Title: Re: A question about HO Shays and grades.
Post by: WoundedBear on September 29, 2007, 12:01:43 AM
Perfect!

Thank you.

Sid