Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => Williams by Bachmann => Topic started by: wmwalker on July 14, 2013, 09:56:32 PM



Title: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on July 14, 2013, 09:56:32 PM
I just got may Scale Hudson this week end Santa Fe and it is just outstanding. I been running it all day. This is my first steam engine because I am Diesel person but this Hudson might change my mind somewhat to get a few Steamers. ;D
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc269/wmwalker_2007/Trains/Santa%20Fe%20Steam/photo3_zpsd77d31e0.jpg)


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: GG1onFordsDTandI on July 15, 2013, 01:19:05 AM
The rods and lofty smoke will have you hypnotized in no time, Mmhua ha ha ha! (my best train movie villain laugh)   


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: phillyreading on July 15, 2013, 01:10:42 PM
I have heard some good things about the new steam locomotives by Bachmann. They have better smoke output is one thing I have heard. So if I had the money I might be more temped to buy a new WBB steam locomotive.

Lee F.


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: 671 on July 15, 2013, 03:01:28 PM
Hi WMWalker,

           671 here. I love steamers. The smoke, the rods and the drive wheels. All that motion and sound is intoxicating.
           My first Williams by Bachmann steamer is the 2056 semi-scale NYC Hudson. I have had it for almost three years now. I power it with a Lionel 275 watt postwar transformer. The loco is so efficient that the Lionel transformer could not be set to a low enough voltage to satisfy my need for a ' Creeping Speed '.
           Joe Satnik had a great voltage reducing idea using diodes to solve this challenge.
           I use his idea by placing 4 diodes at the power feed to the electric motor. ( I use a full bridge rectifier and two diodes to accomplish this. ( See Dallee Motor Voltage Drop ).
           This loco now creeps, smokes super, and allows higher voltage to my passenger car's lighting systems.
           In closing; I now have in my stable two Scale Hudsons, one Semi-scale Hudson,one  S2 Turbine 671, one J 484, and one semi-scale Berkshire. All have been modified with the Joe Satnik diode voltage drop. They all run great.
           If you are looking to 'Steam Up'. Buy one of the S2 Turbines now on sale at Trainland...$174.99. These S2s are so smooth and powerful. Great, Great Runners.
           I love mine, I am sure you will be very pleased. Welcome to the smoking side.

                              Keep on Chuggin'...671




Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on July 15, 2013, 08:01:31 PM
Thanks to everyone for the replies and I just might be going over to(smoking side) so more steam engines. I have been running this one now for two days and I seem to always go for the handle to run the Hudson first  ;D. I really love the great detail and smooth running of this and all my WBB engines. I have totally gone WBB all the way.

I have a dual setup for power. I use the Z4000 for conventional mode and then flip the toggle switch to go with 180 brick with TPC 3000 and Legacy to run conventional also. I did notice that the smoke is much better going to Legacy because of the chopped sine wave coming out the TPC 3000 unit but I still like my Z4000 handles because I feel more in control. If I do the mode as 671 suggested then I would be get better smoke that way like the chopped sine does.

Thanks again everyone and I really enjoy this forum and the knowledge found here. :)


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on July 15, 2013, 09:06:13 PM
Update on my Hudson. I just happen to have a ZW-C transformer so I hooked it up in place of my Z4000 and man she runs and smokes like a beauty. Smooth as silk and smokes great. I just might leave the ZW-C in place for a while. :) ;D


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: M1FredQ on July 16, 2013, 10:40:51 AM
Hi WM

Been really busy this Summer. My 8th Grader son All-Star team won their championship

Sunday and now it's on to the Regionals. We are doing a lot of traveling I could have bought some nice steamers with the money spent on gas.

I like that scale Hudson. Is that a new release?? Can I get it from my buddies at Trainworld??

Stay cool in the basement and run trains, its HOT out there!!!

More later


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on July 16, 2013, 11:57:36 AM
M1FredQ I knew you had been traveling a lot and great on your sons team winning the championship. Yep I bet you could have gotten some more WBB engines on the gas money you had to spend but it is worth those memories with your son. I understand that gas is going even higher by August. Anyway the Hudson is the Santa Fe one and very hard to find. My hobby shop found one and I jumped on it. As you know I am not a steam person but this might have me doing some smoking units as 671 said earlier in this thread. ;D I really like the Scale size and spokes wheels and this runs so smooth. I did connect up my ZW-C to the track and it smokes and runs even better with the chopped sine wave. Keep us posted on the ball games and catch you later.


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: r0gruth on July 16, 2013, 06:22:47 PM
671,

You mentioned above that you use a Lionel post war 275 watt transformer.I assume that is a ZW.[?]

Be aware that the post war transformers had as the lowest output above 5 volts or higher.

Many of the newer transformers have a lower starting voltage.


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: 671 on July 17, 2013, 06:58:51 AM
r0gruth,

          Yes, I use the Lionel ZW 275 watt postwar transformer. The starting voltage is actually 7+ volts. I have a MTH 1000 transformer which starts at a much lower voltage and allows the locos to 'Creep speeds'. The undesirable results at these low voltages is No Smoke production, poor lighting in caboose and passenger cars, also inconsistent whistle sounds.
           The modifying of the power feed to the electric motor with diode dropping circuit ( Joe Satnik ) (Dallee Diode Motor voltage circuit) creates many positive serendipitous results:
1.    Creeping speeds
2.    Better and more constant smoke production ( I use Crest smoke fluid add a few drops of Mega Steam smoke to the Crest bottle for aroma ). Great smoke no 'spitting'
3.    Consistant whistle sounds
4.    Brighter lighting in all cars and Loco
5.    Smoother starting and stopping ( less stress to drive gears )
6.    Cool motor temperatures ( No ill effects to my semi-scale Hudson for 2 1/2 plus years )

           The higher track voltage needed to run your trains at a desired speed gives you all of these extra benefits. From my own experience, I know that the smoke/headlamp circuit needs approximately 9+ volts input (Track Voltage ) to achieve its' design output of 7.9 volts. Any lower track voltage results in less than optimal voltage output at the voltage limiting circuit of the smoker/headlamp circuit.

                               Heading for the basement...to make Smoke...671  


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: Joe Satnik on July 17, 2013, 05:11:29 PM
Dear 671,

Hmm,

I'm wondering if I should give health warnings about too much smoke.....

Thanks for the kind words. 

Just to be clear, the Dallee circuit (nicely refined and compact) was around looong before I stumbled onto it. 

I was just the first on this forum to promote adding back-to-back diode pairs in series (crude, but effective) for motor voltage dropping. 

---------->l----------- 
     l                l             
     l                l
     ------l<-----

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on July 17, 2013, 06:50:18 PM
Well everyone I stopped by Radio Shack today and got a Full Wave Bridge Rectifier number 276-1181 8amp and followed the setup from Dallee. Connected the + and - leads together and cut one of the motor leads and connected it to the Bridge Rectifier on the other two leads and WOW does that baby smoke and run great. The start up voltage is now about 2 volts higher which lets the smoke unit work nice and a very slow started. I am using a MTH Z4000 transformer now. I found a nice locations for the Bridge Rectifier in front of the motor on the flat plate and used some double side foam tape to hold it in place. Thanks everyone for the setup. :)


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: Joe Satnik on July 18, 2013, 10:00:13 AM
Dear Wyatt,

I'm glad that it works so well for you. 

Double stick tape acts as a thermal insulator, and may eventually dry out, losing its hold.   

I suggest you mount the bridge to lay flat against the plate, so it can use the plate as a heat-sink to cool itself. 

One method would be to drill a hole in the plate the size of the hole in the diode bridge,

then use the appropriate sized screw, nut and lock washer (or Loctite on the threads) to hold the bridge against the plate. 

If the bridge still gets too hot, add some thermal compound between the bridge and the plate.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik



 


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on July 18, 2013, 10:17:38 AM
Thanks Joe for the update. I will do that. I was thinking that the foam tape might dry out and loose its hold so I will do your suggestion. One question I would like your opinion own is that the 8 amp should be enough or should I have gotten a larger one? The 8 amp size just fit on that plate and any larger would be a problem I think. Your thought Please.


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: 671 on July 18, 2013, 12:06:15 PM
Hi wmwalker,

                  8 amp is fine. I have been using that same 8 amp bridge along with two additional 6 amp diodes to create electrically a 4 diode circuit in both electrical flow directions. I like the performance of this "4" diode set-up ( approx 3 volt drop ). I have been using it without fail for almost three years of heavy running. I solder the two extra diodes next to each other between the "Table Legs" of the bridge rectifier. It makes a nice small tight package. This ' Package ' fits into the well below the electrical board within the semi-scale Hudson, the J 484, and the Berkshire locomotive. The S2 Turbine does not have this well. I mounted my bridge and diode package on the Port side (left) of the loco. There is just enough room to mount it on it's edge with the 'table legs' facing the electronic 'E' unit board.
                   In the Scale Hudsons I mounted the bridge package within the tender. I tied into the wire harness that goes to the motor for my connections.
                  The Dallee circuit as printed on their website shows the bridge along with a single diode. I have the bridge rectifier with two additional diodes. I have not used any heat sinking for any of my locos. No problems as of yet. A 6 amp diode has enough capacity. I have measured my locos' amp loads, none have exceeded 4.5 amps on my upgrade pulling a long heavy train.
                  I have also installed a small slide switch to interupt the smoker's circuit. This allows me the option of turning off the smoker. This will extend the 'life' of the smoker. Simple setup, cut one wire on the smoker, solder two small wires with shrink tube. Extend this into the engineers cab, epoxy switch to the inside of the cab out of sight and you are all set.


                    "Smok'em if you got'em"...671


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on July 18, 2013, 12:19:31 PM
Thanks 671 for the update. I am glad to here that 8 amp is ok and I guess i could have put it in the tender just did not think about at the time. Taking the engine apart was a little job in its self. I use heat shrink myself alot great stuff. I will put the slide switch in tonight because I like the idea of being able to turn off the unit. I will have to take the engine apart again but at lease now I know what to watch out for. ;D Also while I  am in there I can change out the foam tape as Joe suggested. Thanks for all the help.


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: 671 on July 18, 2013, 01:59:46 PM
Hi wmwalker,

             A quick tip on the smoker switch.

1.    Solder the wires to the switch first.
2.    Shrink wrap those solder points.
3.    Twist the two wires together to form a braid.
4.    Cut smoke unit's one wire.
5.    Wire in the switch wires to the smoker wires ( cut switch wires to correct length)
6.    Epoxy switch in place (5 minute epoxy) avoid glue into switch mechanism use a
             tiny amount of epoxy, one dot is plenty. Clamp in place until dry.
7.    Hot glue the braided pair of wires to upper interior of boiler.
8.    Reassemble Have Fun

                                        671


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on July 18, 2013, 02:43:13 PM
Thanks 671. Good info and will do. Just remembered I have train club meeting tonight so I will do the mod tomorrow evening after work.


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: TrainmanGene on July 18, 2013, 07:09:30 PM
I have 2 of the older Williams NYC Scale Hudsons #5205 @ 5207 and run them double headed (they used to include a coupler pilot for double heading) and use them to pull a 14 car string of Lionel NYC Milk Cars. The Scale Hudson are excellent for the price


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: 671 on July 23, 2013, 02:18:21 PM
wmwalker,

             How did the smoke shut-off switch work out for you?

                                                671


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on July 23, 2013, 06:25:10 PM
671
To be honest i have not done anything yet because i had to help Club members with the NMRA convention tours and our club layout ran into some issues which I am still working thru it. I am on the electrical crew and we have a ZW issue anyway, I will hopefully get to it shorty. Thanks for asking about my progress.


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: GG1onFordsDTandI on July 30, 2013, 04:58:19 AM
I have 2 of the older Williams NYC Scale Hudsons #5205 @ 5207 and run them double headed (they used to include a coupler pilot for double heading) and use them to pull a 14 car string of Lionel NYC Milk Cars. The Scale Hudson are excellent for the price
Moo-vin 14 automatic milk cars?!?!"NICE!!" ;D. No wonder you double head them! I bet the milk cans alone weigh as much as a regular box car or two. Whats her nickname? Heavy cream? :D


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on August 02, 2013, 10:25:41 PM
Update on my Hudson. I did some checking on my bridge rectifier mod. It was getting very hot like Joe said also the smoke switch option that 671 has I decided not to do in fact I took out the bridge and started running the Hudson with my ZW-C with chopped sine wave which gives me a slow enough start speed and smokes great without and mod's. I really like the smoke and for now I am not putting in the switch mod but maybe later down the road. I have the unit back as it came out of the box new and with the chopped sine wave it runs and smokes great for me. Thanks to everyone for the great mods and information you have given me. It is well documented for future use.

My power setup. I can switch between Z4K or ZW-C.
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc269/wmwalker_2007/Trains/GP%209%20Engines/photo4_zpsaac83a5d.jpg)


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: GG1onFordsDTandI on August 02, 2013, 11:33:57 PM

7.    Hot glue the braided pair of wires to upper interior of boiler.


I used hot glue on a loco once. It remelted from the motor heat near it. Same near the bulbs. I use silicone or flexible household clear epoxy now. The radio shack epoxy is very similar, flexible, cuttable, and sometimes pealable.

   Walker- a heat sink can work wonders "speading" the heat on rectifiers, Ive added them to quit a few cabnet style video games to avoid elbow burns. Those can get hot enough to blister you sometimes. Away from wires, plastic, or hot glue  ::) it really shouldn't be an issue.   


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: 671 on October 31, 2013, 04:01:38 PM
Hi wmwalker,

          671 here. Just a 'Heads Up'. If you are looking for a new Iron Pony, check out Trainland/Trainworld. They have three WbyB Scale Hudsons on sale, super pricing!

1.  Great Northern  @ $299.99

2.  Canadian Pacific @ $299.99

3.  Jersey Central    @ $329.99

            How is that Santa Fe Hudson doing? Hope all is well.

           Here is a quote from Dr. Frankenstein's Monster when he was in the blind man's house................................................" Smoke Good! "

                           Happy Halloween...671

          


Title: Re: Scale Hudson
Post by: wmwalker on November 02, 2013, 08:01:56 PM
671
Yes I saw that sale and I am looking at the Great Northern because I can make it into a Southern really easy. The price is outstanding. :o My Santa Fe is running great I really like it and who knows I might get a few more Iron Horses  ;D