Im totally blind sided by you anounced 1:20 K-27 way to go Bachmann! How exciting! I new you guys would do It. Is On30 or HOn3 NEXT? I hope! :o
Blackstone Models is a source for models in HOn3.
http://www.blackstonemodels.com/products/k27home.htm
Don't look to Bachmann for HOn3.
Bob,
I don't think that Bachmann will do a K-27 in On30 as PSC/MMI already has done one, and a very nice one at that. As to HOn3, I think Bachmann is doing the K-27 for Blackstone/Sound Trax. I have two of them and the box, the packaging and the part sheets all look like the way Bachmann is packaging their products. The CD that was included with the K-27 matched the CD that was included with the Forney.
Andre :)
The 1:20 scale should be G scale narrow gauge...
Charles
Quote from: taz-of-boyds on August 30, 2007, 11:00:42 PM
The 1:20 scale should be G scale narrow gauge...
Charles
Sorry, but
it is NOT ". . . G scale . . .".
The K27, like all of Bachmann's "Spectrum" locomotives, is 1:20.3 scale, narrow gauge. That scale / gauge combination is named
Fn3, where the "F" designates a 1:20.3 model scale, "n" designates narrow gauge, and "3" designates the prototype's 3 feet between the rails. This scale running on 45mm gauge track is an accurate scale / gauge combination.
Happy (F Scale) RRing,
Jerry Bowers
Jerry, for all of us who have been playing with G-trains for more than a decade it is and will remain G-scale, Generic, Gross;-) and Good for the Garden! Hopefully, the new Bachmann K-27 will also satisfy those terms and join the large family of G-scale trains. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
Zubi:
I've been in model RRing for nearly 60 years and in LS model RRing since the early 1980s (well more than 20 years). I, like most of the modelers I know, have always worked to be reasonably precise in our model RRing language, as well as our speech and writing in general. If we are going to be able to have meaningful discussions, then we need to recognize that items like scale, gauge, dimensions, grades, colors, etc. have specific words to describe them. A brown boxcar isn't called 'Green' just because someone likes, or first learned, the letter "G".
I'm certain there are some folks who just don't care if they communicate clearly. They of course can call it anything they want without anyone's permission or correction. By doing so, they just show their lack of knowledge and understanding.
To educated folks, 'things' have specific words and symbols to describe them. That's how we communicate with each other. Those are the folks I respect and want to deal with.
I too hope the K27 will do well, but it still isn't ". . . G scale . . .".
Happy RRing,
Jerry Bowers
And on some layouts people model FS4.6083333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
You get the point ;)
Quote from: JerryB on August 31, 2007, 04:09:27 AM
Zubi:
I've been in model RRing for nearly 60 years and in LS model RRing since the early 1980s (well more than 20 years). I, like most of the modelers I know, have always worked to be reasonably precise in our model RRing language, as well as our speech and writing in general. If we are going to be able to have meaningful discussions, then we need to recognize that items like scale, gauge, dimensions, grades, colors, etc. have specific words to describe them. A brown boxcar isn't called 'Green' just because someone likes, or first learned, the letter "G".
I'm certain there are some folks who just don't care if they communicate clearly. They of course can call it anything they want without anyone's permission or correction. By doing so, they just show their lack of knowledge and understanding.
To educated folks, 'things' have specific words and symbols to describe them. That's how we communicate with each other. Those are the folks I respect and want to deal with.
I too hope the K27 will do well, but it still isn't ". . . G scale . . .".
Happy RRing,
Jerry Bowers
Jerry, In that case you have been in the hobby for long enough to know better;-)...
Also, communication is about optimising information transfer not about accuracy of
a measurement. Most folks know what *size and gauge* G-scale stands for while
not so many know what the F-letter is supposed to represent - and who can
blame them... If I want to be precise, I refer to the scale representing 3feet as
45mm as 15mm scale and this is about the highest accuracy possible since unlike
F it carries both the meaning (the precise recipe how the scale is obtained) and
no error (unlike F or 1:20.3). So to me this K-27 is still G-scale if I want to be clear to
the general public. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi PS aren't these scale wars fun;-)?
I did not mean to be imprecise, but last I knew, the scales that use the 45 mm gauge were informally specified, or at least not standardized and accepted industry wide. But I hoped to get the basic idea across. Very seldom have I seen regular reference to larGe ;) scale letter designations, more often I see the actual numeric scale referenced if it is appropriate...
Thanks,
Charles
Quote from: zubi on August 31, 2007, 03:31:00 AM
Jerry, for all of us who have been playing with G-trains for more than a decade it is and will remain G-scale, Generic, Gross;-) and Good for the Garden! Hopefully, the new Bachmann K-27 will also satisfy those terms and join the large family of G-scale trains. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
Zubi, if you have been reading my posts, over many years, concerning scale and gauge, then it will be no surprise to you… I do not agree with you about the G-scale part of your statement.
To me, G-scale is only 1:22.5 scale proportion, model to prototype (the real thing).
Fn3 does identify (as JerryB points out) narrow gauge equipment. The use of the letter F is derived from fifteen in the actual scale, which is fifteen mm per foot.
I recognize in the large scale electric model train hobby the term G-scale has generally come to mean any scale running on Gauge 1 (45 mm) track. Thus it is necessary to always ask which scale someone has in mind when G-scale, G, or G-gauge is used.
I prefer, as it more informative, to use the scale proportion than a letter.
So the Bachmann K-27 to me is 1:20.3n3 or just 1:20n3. ;D
Hunt, Well, no I have not been reading your posts - sorry. But that does not have anything to do with you. I get bored and tend to skip scale and gauge stuff since Stan and a few other guys decided to mess up the perfectly good G-scale world;-)... I guess you are aware that the f-letter is a purely political and commercial concept and as such I tend to avoid it. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
PS numeric 15mm is pretty international denomination, while 15 does not start with f in my mother tonque
Whatever you call the scale, it remains that a boxcar in 20.3 is about 2 inches longer than the same car in 22.5 (G). When together, the difference is very noticeable. gj
"G" was invented by LGB as a promotional label to desribe their 1:22.5 scale on 45mm track range. The correct European designation for this is IIm and this, at least for a while, used to be on LGB boxes. (II is the european term for 1:22.5, the suffix m means metre gauge). "G" was convenient for LGB as it hid that not all of their models were to 1:22.5 scale (e.g. the standard gauge prototypes) and that not all the prototypes were metre gauge. As the originator of the term used it imprecisely I think we should accept that it is not a precise term.
Hamish
Quote from: Hamish K on September 05, 2007, 06:49:59 PM
"G" was invented by LGB as a promotional label to desribe their 1:22.5 scale on 45mm track range. The correct European designation for this is IIm and this, at least for a while, used to be on LGB boxes. (II is the european term for 1:22.5, the suffix m means metre gauge). "G" was convenient for LGB as it hid that not all of their models were to 1:22.5 scale (e.g. the standard gauge prototypes) and that not all the prototypes were metre gauge. As the originator of the term used it imprecisely I think we should accept that it is not a precise term.
Hamish
Hamish, this is entirely true. 'G' is an umbrella over many scales ranging from about 1:13 (feldbahn) to about 1:27 (standard gauge) but operating on 45mm track, while not being gauge 1 (which is 1:32 of course). One should remember that most LGB originates from other gauges than meter gauge. The most profound example is their Stainz - the first LGB model ever. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
Quote from: glennk28 on September 05, 2007, 12:55:05 AM
Whatever you call the scale, it remains that a boxcar in 20.3 is about 2 inches longer than the same car in 22.5 (G). When together, the difference is very noticeable. gj
GJ, one inch comes from the simple fact that LGB or USAT boxcars are modelled after 28 foot prototype while Accucraft prototype is a 30foot car. The other inch comes from the nonstandard;-) scale ratio used by Accucraft. Best wishes, Zubi
Quote from: zubi on September 05, 2007, 11:07:13 PM<snip> 'G' is an umbrella over many scales ranging from about 1:13 (feldbahn) to about 1:27 (standard gauge) but operating on 45mm track <snip>
Interesting that you include scales from 1:13 clear on up to 1:27 as comprising "G scale", but not include what is arguably the largest selling 1:29 scale. Is there something really special about Aristocraft and USA Trains that they are left out of your personal naming convention?
Happy RRing,
Jerry
Jerry
I think zubi was only mentioning the scales produced by LGB which ranged from about 1:13 for some of their "Feldbahn" (field railway) equipment (other LGB feldbahn equipment was about 1:18) through 1:22.5 to 1:26 or 1:27 for their standard gauge stuff. This was not his personal view of "G" scale but the different scales produced by LGB as "G".
Hamish
Hamish, thanks for helping me. Sure, I said 'about' meaning that the notion of scale is really very vague in the concept of G-scale, it is the gauge which is relevant, plus the overall size. So 1:29 fits. But gauge 1 1/32 has been defined for so long and being standard gauge it has such a clear definition and a long established group of followers that it never really fitted under the G-scale umbrella.
But as you well realise, scale 1:30 is sometimes used by gauge 1 people (Aster Glaskasten and all Japanese prototypes) and it is still considered to belong to gauge 1, not to G-scale even though if we consider the issue from strictly arithmetic point of view 1:30 is considerably closer to 1:29 - G-scale than to 1:32- gauge 1.
So there you are, there are arguments and counterarguments but as with some other more or less pleasant activities, it is better to make/play trains not wars.
Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
1/29 is my favorite G scale, I plan to have my favorite little railroads modeled in that scale outside along with N scale inside. The Bachnmann larGe scale passenger cars (last I checked) seemed to be a good size match for 1/29 heavyweights. I plan to patch some together to model the home built units from the Cumberland and Pennsylvania railroad from Maryland's coal past.
Thanks,
Charles