I recently remounted a gas lamp decoration in the front yard, after finding it in the garage again, 20 years after someone attempted to steal it, bending its original mount beyond repair. Its a cast aluminum ICRR 382, the Casey Jones "Cannonball Express". My question is what are the closest model locos made to this, or even his previous engine. I think Bachmann had a set or two, one in G maybe? American Flyer did one in S in the 60's, But 3r O gauge would be my ultimate choice for this one. Any info or ideas? Its a Rogers 4-6-0.
GG
AHM had one back in 77. I took the liberty to google it.
http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmhoscalelocomotives/id59.html
Caboose Hobbies has it listed in kit form for $175.00
http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=216470&osCsid=25d5dfaf261512887f319a9b8fe6456d
I have a 4-6-0 in S that is quite similar to this one. It is from the late 50's before Lionel bought them.
Check this one out on evilbay...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-6-0-Project-Loco-/231027312394?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35ca4d070a
Jerry
so why do you think people would want a version of Casey's engine it's sad about what happened to him I wouldn't want a version of 382 on my layout or the cannonball express :'(
AHM also had an "O" scale static display kit of the Casey Lones engine which could be powered. The motor was a dinky little thing and there was no way the plastic engine could have pulled much. I think it was meant to power the drivers on some kind of display. I can't believe the asking price for the static model!
Whether or not Casey died at the throttle, the model would be a historical piece. After all, didn't people model the Lincoln funeral train?
well you do have a good point but still it doesn't make sense to me Casey was a engineer not a president so why should there be a model of his engine available I'm just confused
andrew
you need to pick up a book about Casey Jones. he was one of the greatest engineers of his time. for model railroaders, it is a tribute to him and an honor to have something to be able to model him after.
nothing against the political reference you refer to, but there is tons of memorabilia, monuments and trinkets honoring our presidents.
he may not have run the country, but he owned the railroad.
some here model prototypes and some freelance. whatever somebody models is there preference as is what you are doing. some may think the cog is ridiculous.
Jerry
Quote from: Jerrys HO on August 04, 2013, 07:37:46 PM
andrew
you need to pick up a book about Casey Jones. he was one of the greatest engineers of his time. for model railroaders, it is a tribute to him and an honor to have something to be able to model him after.
Jerry
Casey Jones brought about his own death by speeding, for which he had a reputation. The accident was caused by a disregard for the rules
He's only famous because of the Ballad. He did, much to his credit, stay with his engine but that does not absolve him of full responsibilty for the accident, regardless of the legend and the myth: -
At the official inquiry, Sim Webb (Casey's fireman) says he saw the flagman and heard torpedoes. Crews on the other train said they heard torpedoes. Many have said Casey was "short flagged" but John Newberry (The flagman) was an experienced man and he had flagged No. 25 a short time before. The rail board's formal investigation concluded that "Engineer Jones was solely responsible for the accident as consequence of not having properly responded to flag signals." The implication being that Casey got a saw-by sign from Newberry and assumed the north switch would have been cleared for him. He made a brake application and was slowing when Sim saw the caboose and shouted. The emergency application was not enough, but it slowed the train enough that no passenger or other crew member was seriously injured.
roger
Illinois Central Railroad report on accident[edit source | editbeta]
A conductor's report filed just five hours after the accident stated "Engineer on No.1 failed to answer flagman who was out proper distance. It is supposed did not see the flag." This was the position the I.C. would later take in its official reports.[3]
The final I.C. accident report was released on July 13, 1900 by A.S. Sullivan, General Superintendent of the I.C., and stated that "Engineer Jones was solely responsible having disregarded the signals given by Flagman Newberry." John M. Newberry was the flagman on the southbound No. 83 that Jones hit. According to the report he had gone back a distance of 3,000 feet where he had placed torpedos on the rail. He then continued north a further distance of 500 to 800 feet, where he stood and gave signals to Jones's train No.1. But doubt still lingers about the official findings and some wonder where Newberry was positioned that night. Some feel he wasn't there at all. Some say Jones was "short flagged," but Newberry was an experienced man and he had flagged No. 25 a short time before. In the report Fireman Sim Webb states that he heard the torpedo explode, then went to the gangway on the engineer's side and saw the flagman with the red and white lights standing alongside the tracks. Going then to the fireman's side, he saw the markers of the caboose of No. 83 and yelled to Jones. But it would have been impossible for him to have seen the flagman if the flagman had been positioned 500–800 feet before the torpedoes as the report says he was. Once the torpedoes exploded the train would have already been too far past the flagman's reported position for him to be visible. So if Webb did see the flagman at this point, he had to be out of position at about 3,000 feet north of the switch, not 3,500–3,800 feet north as stated in the report, which means Jones was indeed "short flagged." It's possible that after the flagman flagged the No. 25 freight through, he heard the commotion as No. 72's air hose broke and everything got jammed up with No. 83 fouling the main line. He may have gone to No. 83 to find out what the situation was, assuming he had time before Jones arrived. He then headed north along the tracks and placed the torpedoes, but by then Jones may have come roaring out of the fog before he made it to his reported position. If this is what happened, Jones lost a good 500–800 feet of stopping distance, which might have prevented the collision. In any event, some railroad historians have disputed the official account over the years, finding it difficult if not impossible to believe that an engineer of Jones's experience would have ignored a flagman and fusees (flares) and torpedoes exploded on the rail to alert him to danger.
Contrary to what the report claimed, shortly after the accident and until his death Webb maintained that "We saw no flagman or fusees, we heard no torpedoes. Without any warning we plowed into that caboose."[3][7]
to some that was debatable, but we were not there so everything is speculation.
do to the chance taker he was and had been cited for, of course he will get the blame.
Jerry
Quote from: Jerrys HO on August 04, 2013, 08:56:06 PM
roger
Illinois Central Railroad report on accident[edit source | editbeta]
A conductor's report filed just five hours after the accident stated "Engineer on No.1 failed to answer flagman who was out proper distance. It is supposed did not see the flag." This was the position the I.C. would later take in its official reports.[3]
The final I.C. accident report was released on July 13, 1900 by A.S. Sullivan, General Superintendent of the I.C., and stated that "Engineer Jones was solely responsible having disregarded the signals given by Flagman Newberry." John M. Newberry was the flagman on the southbound No. 83 that Jones hit. According to the report he had gone back a distance of 3,000 feet where he had placed torpedos on the rail. He then continued north a further distance of 500 to 800 feet, where he stood and gave signals to Jones's train No.1. But doubt still lingers about the official findings and some wonder where Newberry was positioned that night. Some feel he wasn't there at all. Some say Jones was "short flagged," but Newberry was an experienced man and he had flagged No. 25 a short time before. In the report Fireman Sim Webb states that he heard the torpedo explode, then went to the gangway on the engineer's side and saw the flagman with the red and white lights standing alongside the tracks. Going then to the fireman's side, he saw the markers of the caboose of No. 83 and yelled to Jones. But it would have been impossible for him to have seen the flagman if the flagman had been positioned 500–800 feet before the torpedoes as the report says he was. Once the torpedoes exploded the train would have already been too far past the flagman's reported position for him to be visible. So if Webb did see the flagman at this point, he had to be out of position at about 3,000 feet north of the switch, not 3,500–3,800 feet north as stated in the report, which means Jones was indeed "short flagged." It's possible that after the flagman flagged the No. 25 freight through, he heard the commotion as No. 72's air hose broke and everything got jammed up with No. 83 fouling the main line. He may have gone to No. 83 to find out what the situation was, assuming he had time before Jones arrived. He then headed north along the tracks and placed the torpedoes, but by then Jones may have come roaring out of the fog before he made it to his reported position. If this is what happened, Jones lost a good 500–800 feet of stopping distance, which might have prevented the collision. In any event, some railroad historians have disputed the official account over the years, finding it difficult if not impossible to believe that an engineer of Jones's experience would have ignored a flagman and fusees (flares) and torpedoes exploded on the rail to alert him to danger.
Contrary to what the report claimed, shortly after the accident and until his death Webb maintained that "We saw no flagman or fusees, we heard no torpedoes. Without any warning we plowed into that caboose."[3][7]
to some that was debatable, but we were not there so everything is speculation.
do to the chance taker he was and had been cited for, of course he will get the blame.
Jerry
The official report, which is the only one that counts, say's Jones was responsible. That's all that counts. The only heroic thing he did was stay with the engine but he caused the crash and thus, is no "hero".
Quote from: andrewd on August 04, 2013, 06:11:08 PM
well you do have a good point but still it doesn't make sense to me Casey was a engineer not a president so why should there be a model of his engine available I'm just confused
Andrew-
Although there really was a Casey Jones, his place in American folklore is about the same as Paul Bunyon, Wyatt Earp or George Washington. He achieved legendary status in our larger culture, not just that of rail fans or model rails. This shouldn't be surprising. Until the middle of the 20th Century trains had a real mystique and railroading was considered pretty glamorous. Railroads were also major employers and a fairly common part of most people's lives. Given that social and historical context, it's understandable that he would live on as bigger than life.
-- D
I agree with Doneldon about Casey's significance in American railroad lore. The baby boomers amongst us will remember the 1950s TV show "Casey Jones" which starred Alan Hale Jr. It made Casey sort of a very heroic guy.
Quote from: andrewd on August 04, 2013, 08:37:47 AM
so why do you think people would want a version of Casey's engine it's sad about what happened to him I wouldn't want a version of 382 on my layout or the cannonball express :'(
locomotives are usually not one of a kind machines. a model of casey jones locomotive would be reasonably accurate for all in its class, as well as possibly similar classes both on ic and other lines as well.
I do have to chime in here, Casey's fireman was from my home town, McComb, MS. I want to back Don's statement about the industry of the railroad. If it weren't for the railroad my home town wouldn't exist. It was founded solely for the railroad, and it boasted the largest car repair facility between Memphis, TN and New Orleans, LA. Sadly hardly anything is left of the good ole days. The trains still come through daily as they always did, but the days of seeing 20+ engines jockeying cars around and getting ready to work is a thing of the past. I'm just happy to have the memories from my childhood.
I think Casey should not have a model of his engine available and just thinking about the crash I sure would hate to be the guy to tell his family about why he didn't come home I have a feeling I would get beat up big time
roger
I agree, Casey was no hero by all means but he did a heroic deed by doing everything possible to bring that train to a halt or at least slow her down in order to save the lives of his passengers. Hypothetically speaking I wonder if anyone else would have taken their own life in order to do same.
In the times he was engineering you have to remember there was primitive signalling as to what we have today. It was speculated that the flagman was checking out the problem with the other train and was late to get to the spot where he should have been.
Casey drove the way his employers expected him to drive as to make every stop on time. In that day and age it was an honor to please the boss not so with some of today's workers.
Tragically it had to end in his death but he should be honored as he did what was expected of him and then had to try to stop on a dime in the middle of the night because a train did not make it all the way into the siding.
Jerry
Quote from: Jerrys HO on August 05, 2013, 06:00:05 PM
roger
I agree, Casey was no hero by all means but he did a heroic deed by doing everything possible to bring that train to a halt or at least slow her down in order to save the lives of his passengers. Hypothetically speaking I wonder if anyone else would have taken their own life in order to do same.
In the times he was engineering you have to remember there was primitive signalling as to what we have today. It was speculated that the flagman was checking out the problem with the other train and was late to get to the spot where he should have been.
Casey drove the way his employers expected him to drive as to make every stop on time. In that day and age it was an honor to please the boss not so with some of today's workers.
Tragically it had to end in his death but he should be honored as he did what was expected of him and then had to try to stop on a dime in the middle of the night because a train did not make it all the way into the siding.
Jerry
Jerry, there are probably dozens and dozens of stories where locomotive crews have stayed with their train rather than jump. Jones was not the only one in recorded history to stay at his post. It was the ballad and its subsequent popularity that made him (in)famous, not just his deeds or actions. If it wasn't for the ballad, he'd be a footnote in history.
For someone who was brave and stayed with his engine, read about john Axon, a man who truly was heroic as he stayed with his unbraked runaway train sounding the whistle to warn people of its 50 plus mile per hour charge downgrade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Axon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Axon)
Jerry, from what I've read is that the train Jones hit was too long for the siding. While the train on the siding was trying to move forward to clear the rear switch something happened and the train was stuck.
Sorry guy's, I was not trying to make him a hero just trying to get a point across to Andrew that it was a historic moment and that is why modelers wish to model the ole #382.
Gosh you nit pickers pick everything apart. ;D
Jerry
Quote from: Jerrys HO on August 05, 2013, 09:27:27 PM
Sorry guy's, I was not trying to make him a hero just trying to get a point across to Andrew that it was a historic moment and that is why modelers wish to model the ole #382.
Gosh you nit pickers pick everything apart. ;D
Jerry
Sorry Jerry but it's in our contract. :(
Quote from: Jerrys HO on August 05, 2013, 09:27:27 PM
Sorry guy's, I was not trying to make him a hero just trying to get a point across to Andrew that it was a historic moment and that is why modelers wish to model the ole #382.
Gosh you nit pickers pick everything apart. ;D
Jerry
Jerrys HO: Thanks for starting the Casey Jones discussion. It has made me go review several resources for the Casey Jones story, and also to talk to a couple of RR fan & historian friends. Great renewal of the story in my mind.
Far from other posters 'picking everything apart,' I think you brought up an "historic moment" that has elicited a number of responses that have (so far) been very civil and presented the Casey Jones story as what it is: An important piece of Americana, whether one believes Mr. Jones was a hero or a just a bad driver. :) :)
Jerry
Quote from: andrewd on August 05, 2013, 05:23:43 PM
I think Casey should not have a model of his engine available and just thinking about the crash I sure would hate to be the guy to tell his family about why he didn't come home I have a feeling I would get beat up big time
I understand your feelings here. Beat up or not speak your mind, just don't be too foolish to at least consider the thoughts of others. Casey was a legend with the timekeepers, and the accident had many conflicting stories, and would have ruined a veteran flagman had the findings been otherwise. Dead men don't need jobs. Casey was the only person who died, likely because he didn't jump, his fault or not that alone is heroic enough for me. He took the responsibility for his mistake, and owned it like a man. The findings conflicted with what the fireman, and some others said. It could have been his fault as well, more so in my eyes, he had the view and they were a team. Sad or not it is a reminder of histories follies as well as a lesson in morals, both good and bad. We don't learn from an erased history.
Oh yea! Thanks for the contributions to the history lesson, don't stop, but don't forget I would like any info on scale builds of that cannonball ,an old name describing any fast train, used in a headline to describe the wreck. It was not the actual name of that train, nor do I remember it being the name of the run, the name just stuck after the headline.
What about his previous regular loco?
Casey's previous locomotive was No. 638, a 2-8-0 very similar to his nearly new Rogers 4-6-0 he ran after promotion to passenger service.
http://www.watervalley.net/users/caseyjones/media/638.jpg
The famous 382, likely photographed after the wreck and rebuilding:
http://www.watervalley.net/users/caseyjones/media/382.jpg
Jones himself, enlarged from a group portrait. He was relatively young when he died (age 36). He was also a strong union man, holding both his Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers membership and continuing as a member of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen (correct name?).
http://www.watervalley.net/users/caseyjones/media/casey02.jpg
Source for above photos.
http://www.watervalley.net/users/caseyjones/media.htm
http://www.watervalley.net/users/caseyjones/home.htm
Quote from: J3a-614 on August 06, 2013, 07:23:20 AM
Casey's previous locomotive was No. 638, a 2-8-0 very similar to his nearly new Rogers 4-6-0 he ran after promotion to passenger service.
J3-
I haven't looked up Casey Jones stories for quite a while but I seem to recall that he went out extra on 382. It wasn't his regular loco (railroaders in the old days were very possessive of their engines and crummies) or his regular run.
-- D
In addition to the AHM HO and O scale models (I have a motorized O scale one), there was a model done in brass, probably also back in the 1970's. I believe Red Ball was the importer. Also note that there was a time back in the 1950's/60's era when some manufacturers labled a 4-6-0 they produced a "Casey Jones" engine, even if had no resemblance to the actual loco. Probably the best-known was the Varney model, which was one of their "screwdriver assembly" kits. The model shared boiler, cylinder block, pilot, and tender with the "Old Lady" 2-8-0 kit. The 2-8-0 is pretty close to a Southern loco, one of which is preserved at the Whippany Railway Museum in New Jersey.
Quote from: andrewd on August 05, 2013, 05:23:43 PM
I think Casey should not have a model of his engine available and just thinking about the crash I sure would hate to be the guy to tell his family about why he didn't come home I have a feeling I would get beat up big time
1. Rest easy, he doesn't, and he won't. He is, after all, how to put it....ummmmm......dead.
2. By your reasoning, ship modelers should find available no models of the Titanic; Captain Smith did a baaaaad thiiing, ignoring all those ice warnings, so no model there. Probably gotta can the Bismark, too, then, I mean, it was piloted by some unsavory types, y'know?
3. And what about those Nazis anyway? They were some dern bad characaters all around, wuzn't they? Gotta get them German WWII airplanes and tanks and U-boats off the market, too, then.
4. Finally, use as much of the below as needed. Copy and paste will work. Really, keep 'em! I have more!
.....................
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
:::::::::::::::::
ebtnut- Got a photo of your O scale? Brass is usually out of my league, but Ill look around.
Quote from: Mdaskalos on August 06, 2013, 11:05:37 AM
3. And what about those Nazis anyway? They were some dern bad characaters all around, wuzn't they?
That's the subject where I originally picked up the "erased history" line. It stuck deep in my mind.
Quote from: Mdaskalos on August 06, 2013, 11:05:37 AM
U-boats off the market, too, then.
Even the Verandas? :'(
Quote from: Mdaskalos on August 06, 2013, 11:05:37 AM
4. Finally, use as much of the below as needed. Copy and paste will work. Really, keep 'em! I have more!
.....................
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
:::::::::::::::::
Normally I frown on "Grammer Nazis" ;) :-* ('cause I suck :D) But this is too funny. :D I had to blow it up to 200% to figure out exactly what was going on, but it was worth it.
(yes grammar
is spelled wrong on porpoise)........they call him Flipper.. Flipper.. King of the ocean! ::) Sorry....
Thanks for the info. Keep it coming! I read the 382 photo was touched(old term for "photo shopped", before computers). Done for a news story, it was #38?, the two was painted on after the old number(& a crew member) were painted out.
Quote from: GG1onFordsDTandI on August 07, 2013, 10:57:49 AM
Even the Verandas? :'(
OK, GG1, I'm not to proud to admit you got me on the veranda reference. A veranda is a porch, right? I was thinking "Porch...screen door...man, maybe he's making a veiled reference to the old saying, something about me being 'as useful as a screen door on a submarine.' " Or, that we gotta get 'em off the second-hand market, too - no yard sales, etc., and thus off the front porch/veranda.
Anyway, I'm betting none of those are right, so I'll ask: What's the veranda reference mean?
Quote from: GG1onFordsDTandI on August 07, 2013, 10:57:49 AM
Normally I frown on "Grammer Nazis" ;) :-* ('cause I suck :D) But this is too funny. :D I had to blow it up to 200% to figure out exactly what was going on, but it was worth it.
(yes grammar is spelled wrong on porpoise...
Hey, it doesn't
have to be misspelled...maybe it means you're a detail man about the show "Frasier"!
It
is possible to carry the grammar correctness thing too far. Back when we were kids, were taught to say "burst" instead of "bust" ("Waaaah , mommy!!! Jimmy busted my balloon!" Mom: "No, Billy: Jimmy
burst your balloon."), some of you might remember stuff like that. But consider grammatically correct burst/bust phraseology carried too far: I mean, I like watching a good football game, and seeing my team really "
bust their a$$es" out there on the field. If the game goes well, them my team is "busting the other team's a$$es" out there, too. I like to watching that kind of tough game.
HOWEVER: You could not
pay me to watch a player "burst his posterior" out there on the field. Nor would I want to watch him bursting anyone else's posterior out there, no matter how much more grammatically correct the term may be! (Quick!!!Get a mop and some disinfectant for the TV, and a barf bag for me!)
I do think that when someone writes with no regard for punctuation or for rules of grammar, that they are displaying very little respect for those whom they expect to read their writings. Look at this forum: we have guys on here who write cogent, well presented posts, contributing wonderful knowledge to this hobby community. Those same contributors will also present photographs and apologize for what they consider poor photography, which is better than what I can produce on my best day.
These guys deserves some respect, especially if we come around here asking the favor of their advice or a sharing of their knowledge on a matter.
Quote from: Mdaskalos on August 07, 2013, 02:59:45 PM
Hey, it doesn't have to be misspelled...maybe it means you're a detail man about the show "Frasier"!
Md-
But, if the reference was to Kelsey, Grammer would have been capitalized!
-- D
I got the veranda reference so i'll explain it.....
with the reference to banning u boats. u boat was the nickname for a whole series of general electric diesels. the verandas were gas turbines made by the same company.....
personally, from my experience many railroaders wished that the u boats and many other ge locomotives had been banned. they were notorious dogs, and many spent much of their lives parked due to high maintenance costs.
TRAINS magazine had a special issue edition on famous Train crashes. Casey Jones was one of the featured articles.
I highly recommend it !!!!
In the old days there were no radios, computers or electronics of Any sort it was all seat of the pants and instinct train driving. Like in aviation a lot was learned in the "old" days when accidents often ended tragically with injuries, loss of life, and damaged equipment.
I for one consider Casey a hero. He could have jumped the train but when you read the article he did his best to make sure the conditions were survivable for the crew jumping off. We will never know why he didn't jump the article suggests he ran out of time, maybe he "froze" or the conditions of where to jump were not available.
In a time when our kids are no longer being taught many of our traditional heroes such of those with character, code of conduct, and self sacrifice we need to keep their spirits alive for the next future generations.
Feeling lazy, going to skip the quotes, my apologies is you get lost.
Maybe andrewed was on a phone ;) That kind of devotion deserves a pardon from the "grammar slammer" :D
Obviously a caring individual, his frustration my have led to it too. addrewed I do hope you're still reading here as well as researching the man himself. After learning, you've lost nothing, even if you feel the same. And well, that's admirable in a way. But if you feel different isn't that a personal gain?
Ding, ding, ding........jward wins!!! :D Veranda unit- U-boat with an "U-mbrella" (covered walkway).
Never saw the TV show (was that the skipper?). Just a little before my time. But I did recognize the tune. Its quite old. I know it a little, different words here and there...and those are a bit sketchy. Learned it in Twinsburg, Ohio schools, at the old school on the hill. I think it was done as a "big band swing tune too" It was also, of course in an ad for "Good and Plenty" candy. Same tune, but its about a child, Charley, who appears to be a rail fan, and likes "black liquorish" candies.
Anyone else notice the wiki- bit about Casey having a custom 6-tube whistle? Wonder it any of those whistle enthusiasts have reproduced one?
vvvv-?? Heroic ??-vvvv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Jones#Rescue_of_Child_from_the_Tracks
still I don't think Casey is famous enough to have 382 as a model in any scale what so ever so forget Casey Jones ever existed and stop talking about him
Everyone has their opinions. If you don't like reading about it, DON'T read it but don't tell us to stop talking about him or his loco . This is a freedom of speech country (unless the overlords step in ;D)
Jerry
Quote from: jward on August 07, 2013, 08:24:27 PM
personally, from my experience many railroaders wished that the u boats and many other ge locomotives had been banned. they were notorious dogs, and many spent much of their lives parked due to high maintenance costs.
Jeff-
Wasn't this true pretty much from day one? I can't recall ever hearing a kind word about the
real U-boats from a real railroader. I suppose this is a big part of why they aren't exceptionally popular models, either.
-- D
Casey was a fraud he went too fast on a regular basis so it is his fault he crashed and still if I was told I was to tell his family why he didn't come home I have a feeling I would be almost killed
andrew
Quoteand still if I was told I was to tell his family why he didn't come home I have a feeling I would be almost killed
SHHH!!! just don't tell them. ;D ;D ;D ;D you'll be alright.
Quote from: andrewd on August 08, 2013, 06:16:19 PM
if I was told I was to tell his family why he didn't come home I have a feeling I would be almost killed
Andrew-
Judging from several of your other posts today, worse things have happened.
-- D
Quote from: andrewd on August 08, 2013, 04:58:38 PM
still I don't think Casey is famous enough to have 382 as a model in any scale what so ever so forget Casey Jones ever existed and stop talking about him
Nice.... I tried to be nice in encouraging you to voice an intelligent response with friendly jabbing and smileys. My mistake.
Ill skip big words, smileys, and any complicated punctuations here as not to confuse you "and
rude".
His family, well aware of his reputation would be bigger morons than you if they took it out on you for delivering the news. I find that hard to believe. I guess your to much of an idiot to get that. Don't teach your children this story, let them learn the same way Casey did. He is obviously famous. Fame does not mean he is a hero. But he
was a hero, before the crash at least. The trains have been already been made in multiple scales. How long ago? Well lets just say the number of years is about the same as your IQ. AND this post has generated more involvement than most have this summer. When was your last contribution? Skip this thread if you don't like it. Just go to your settings and un-subscribe, you narrow minded piece of sh..shiny clay. Then
You can stop talking about Casey, eat Baby Ruth you feeble little troll. Ill be sharpening my tongue should you care to take these messages private. Till you muster enough....whatever chemical it is you're lacking, how about showing some respect, and acting of age.
please ignore him and don't talk about him (andrewd) further. It will hopefully allow him to move on to a post more to his liking.
Quote from: Doneldon on August 08, 2013, 06:01:06 PM
Quote from: jward on August 07, 2013, 08:24:27 PM
personally, from my experience many railroaders wished that the u boats and many other ge locomotives had been banned. they were notorious dogs, and many spent much of their lives parked due to high maintenance costs.
Jeff-
Wasn't this true pretty much from day one? I can't recall ever hearing a kind word about the real U-boats from a real railroader. I suppose this is a big part of why they aren't exceptionally popular models, either.
-- D
I know the trouble we had with the dash 7s, which were a drastic improvement over the u boats. most of the big railroads got rid of their u boats when the equipment leases ran out, usually about age 15. with emd units they would buy out the lease and overhaul them, but with ge products in general, there is no point in a major rebuild program. one of the problems they have is engineroom fires, from oil leaking into places it shouldn't be. in benign cases this causes "flame outs" erupting from the stack. another problem which plagued some u boats was aluminum cabling, which corrodes when in contact with certain other metals. this can cause electrical fires.
Well, some people here seem to like controversy, I just say I like trains.
One of the locomotives Casey ran (or might have run--odds are quite good for that, actually), survives today:
http://www.railarchive.net/randomsteam/ic201.htm
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0100/ic201b.jpg
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/ic201a.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IC_201_20050716_IL_Union.jpg
Watch out for all the foam from the Forney fans around here! :-)
Quote from: GG1onFordsDTandI on August 08, 2013, 03:32:37 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Jones#Rescue_of_Child_from_the_Tracks
Thanks for that link. I find it particularly interesting that the "legend" seems to have started almost immediately, courtesy of the newspaper man who was on the train.
Myself, I prefer the Grateful Dead's version of the ballad ;D
Sid
I know that one too. During the 90s "Greatfull Dead" and "Dylan" became my nickname. Not because I listened to the music often. But because the hair was still past the sholders. I blew everyone in 2000 with a narrow flat top. My hair hadn't been that short since 1969-70.
At lest when the Verandas when they broke down, you could wait on the "porch" under the "umbrella"
My Grandfather referred to them as umbrella boats, but he used his own vernacular quite a bit.
Against my own request but I have noticed andrewd is only a guest now ???. I wonder if he accidently deleted his account while in settings, attempting to adjust his settings? Its happened before. He could possibly start a new account.
Sorry to anyone ticked off, I do prefer to play nice.
One Casey Jones info webpage I went to said he had received no warnings from the railroad in the year preceding the wreck. Either he had kept his nose clean, or perhaps the railroad management just chose to look the other way. In either event, when it came time to call up a replacement engineer on short notice, and knowing that the train was likely going to get underway late, I would think the railroad management knew who to call; they probably didn't draw Casey Jones' name out of a hat.
The term "u-boat" for a locomotive must be very much an "insider" term for railroaders, I googled the terms "u-boat" and "locomotive" together (well, I "Bing"-ed it, I guess), and everything came up submarines. I gave up after looking through a few pages.
You know, in one of those ironies, I would probably never have the 382 on a model railroad of mine. (I used to work in a shipyard, and have built many model ships; I'm getting back into model railroading after a 35-year hiatus, to bring it to my sons). Anyway, I had two simple rules for what I would build and not build, and I will probably extend those same rules to what I will run on my railroad:
1. No ugly ships (locomotives) They gotta please my eye in the case (on the tracks)
2. No unsuccessful or "bad luck/bad reputation" ships (locos). (Within reason: build the Titanic? Yes? a modern cruise/sewage liner? No.)
(Forgive me for all of the ship references...it has been a chunk of my career, plus an unexpected kitchen rebuild over the past month has slowed my return to model railroading.)
I'm not saying the 382 is ugly, in case anyone is going to get upset; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. it just doesn't float my boat, plus it's about 50 years distant from the era I'm targeting.
Do I mean I agree with a certain other "rewd" poster? Not in the least. I assert that
I would not want to have a certain loco on
MY layout, this other individual contends that
NO ONE should.
Where would
that stop? Somebody else will come along and say "no one ought to model such and such a railroad because they exploited this or that"; someone further will come along and say "you ought not model ome OTHER railroad 'cuz it's a coal hauler, and that's jsut morally and environemntally wrong..."
Quote...This is a freedom of speech country...
I don't know, Jerry: America seems to be turning into "Amerika" more and more every day, where if someone disagrees with you, they must demonize your view or your pursuit, and try to render it illegal.
Manuel
Thanks for a well thought out counter point Manuel.
Now here's something I hope you'll really like! (RJSquirrel) ;)
http://youtu.be/z9Dl7V_4QFY
Manuel posted-
The term "u-boat" for a locomotive must be very much an "insider" term for railroaders, I googled the terms "u-boat" and "locomotive" together (well, I "Bing"-ed it, I guess), and everything came up submarines. I gave up after looking through a few pages.
Manuel, maybe Bing has given us each different results based on personal settings, or past searches. In images I get all locomotives by searching - u-boat locomotive - . Not all of them U-boats, but no submarines to speak of.
Quote from: GG1onFordsDTandI on August 09, 2013, 07:07:19 PM
Manuel posted-
The term "u-boat" for a locomotive must be very much an "insider" term for railroaders, I googled the terms "u-boat" and "locomotive" together (well, I "Bing"-ed it, I guess), and everything came up submarines. I gave up after looking through a few pages.
Manuel, maybe Bing has given us each different results based on personal settings, or past searches. In images I get all locomotives by searching - u-boat locomotive - . Not all of them U-boats, but no submarines to speak of.
Speak to any railfan and mention "U-Boat" and they'll all know it means one of G.E.'s "Universal" series of diesels. :-)
Google "U-boat diesel" and you get this, one of many hits: -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_U25B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_U25B)
Quote from: GG1onFordsDTandI on August 09, 2013, 07:07:19 PMManuel, maybe Bing has given us each different results based on personal settings, or past searches. In images I get all locomotives by searching - u-boat locomotive - . Not all of them U-boats, but no submarines to speak of.
Actually, I got crossed up and told you the wrong terms. I really used "U-boat" and "veranda" in Bing. U-boat and locomotive get me some matches.
Manuel
Quote from: Mdaskalos on August 09, 2013, 11:39:58 PM
Quote from: GG1onFordsDTandI on August 09, 2013, 07:07:19 PMManuel, maybe Bing has given us each different results based on personal settings, or past searches. In images I get all locomotives by searching - u-boat locomotive - . Not all of them U-boats, but no submarines to speak of.
Actually, I got crossed up and told you the wrong terms. I really used "U-boat" and "veranda" in Bing. U-boat and locomotive get me some matches. Manuel
After looking a Veranda seems to not be there. But I found a decent photo, halfway down this page, just below the turbine illustration, on the left. UP #73. See the covered walkway?
http://www.railarchive.net/rlsteam/nonsteam.htm
again http://www.railarchive.net/rlsteam/nonsteam.htm
better http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/up70.jpg
Given the paucity of pre 1910 locomotives in model form I'd say we entertain any excuse to get them produced, including associations with famous people. The advantages of modelling early railroads are so many - smaller locos and rolling stock and shorter trains, being just two - that I find it strange more modellers don't take advantage of it.
Quote from: Skarloey Railway on August 10, 2013, 04:23:14 PM
Given the paucity of pre 1910 locomotives in model form I'd say we entertain any excuse to get them produced, including associations with famous people. The advantages of modelling early railroads are so many - smaller locos and rolling stock and shorter trains, being just two - that I find it strange more modellers don't take advantage of it.
Skar-
There's also an endearing (to me, anyway), spunky, funky charm to the smaller equipment. I won't use the c-word (no, not that one -- get your mind out of the gutter) but they do make me feel a little squishy inside and like I should cuddle one. Compared to the giants which came later -- and I have nothing whatsoever against big steam -- they evoke images of the little engine that could or man against the arctic.
-- D
Yep, all of that. Plus you can model a mainline rr with scale length trains consisting of a loco and eight freight cars and hold it in a 10' long siding while the express passes with 3 or 4 passenger cars and all for the price that a transition era modeller would pay for one train.
while I will admit turn of the century railroading has a certain charm, for me the era to model is the 1970s. the equipment is something I am familiar with in real life., and the operating practices based on my own experiences. there really isn't a lot of historical research I need to do, because I was there. can't say that about the 1890s.
I've so far been able to restrain myself from jumping in here, but you guys give me no choice. You can only punch so many of my buttons unanswered.
What no one seems to have noticed in the Casey Jones debacle was the fact that he had been on duty running trains for over 20 hours at the time of the wreck. Even though he belonged to a union, there was no limitation on the Hours of Service.
I have worked as an engineer on two railroads in Mississippi. Like any main-line engineer, there have been times when I have had to fight to stay awake while running a train. If you are working in pool service, work hours and sleep hours being different each day, your body cannot get into a natural rhythm. Couple this with no hours of service law, and it is surprising to me that there were not more accidents of this type.
I have gone down to where this wreck took place and tried to reconstruct it in my mind. But 100 years after the fact, there was not much left to see. A main line, a siding, and an abandoned station.
I think we should cut Casey some slack. Worked past his limits, he tried to minimize the effects of the crash by staying on the engine and laying on the brakes. His actions probably saved many lives. Most engineers I have talked to about this consider him an unlucky hero, as I do.
I don't collect or operate loco models of the era of 382. But I certainly would not avoid one because of the wreck. It would be very easy to update a 382 model, for that matter. Change the cab roof, the cylinder saddle, the pilot, and the headlight and it could represent any of a number of ten-wheelers of the 20's, 30's, and 40's.
My "other hobby" is building model ships. I have collections of 1/600 scale ships and 1/350 scale ships. Yes, Titanic is one of them. Also Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, and Yamato. If anyone would do a little research on the WWII German Navy, they would find that it was not a collection of Nazis. The surface navy was totally inadequate for a war in 1940, and the ships and crews were sacrificed in a hopeless effort.
I've also preferred running GE locomotives to EMD's. The early ones were slow to load, but the later ones were a treat to run. Especially the -9's. The AC 44 series were all good, too.
Les
Quote from: jward on August 11, 2013, 11:01:14 AM
while I will admit turn of the century railroading has a certain charm, for me the era to model is the 1970s. the equipment is something I am familiar with in real life., and the operating practices based on my own experiences. there really isn't a lot of historical research I need to do, because I was there. can't say that about the 1890s.
Isn't the research all part of the fun?
Ive always just liked trains. Never ever did I not have a train, one of my earliest gifts. While on vacations, as a kid in the sixties, before they all disappeared, I used to love riding "tourist trap trains" of the north. Tourist Traps with their trains and/or viewing towers would cause a fit of pleas to Dad for a stop. I would willingly grant any request my parents made, in exchange for a ride (and maybe that summers toy slingshot, or "bow and arrows". If I couldn't shoot it an honest 15ft, I passed, spoiled by owning the real things too, but those are not toys). Most I remember were rebuilt and/or repurposed narrow gauge or copies of 1800s engines, but "real steam" was all that mattered to me. Some had small diesels, even an engine with a good looking copy of a Super Chief. Wood, coal, oil? Fuel didn't matter, I always went for the steamers. Choosing a car to the rear a bit, so I could view the engines cab in bends, waiting for elusive views into the firebox at speed, sometimes opting not to even ride if it wasn't steam. It only took one trip behind the Mini Chief to decide diesel was too boring for me (unless I'm driving). But at the same time I love Es and Fs,(etc) for their style. The lack of which is my reason for lack of interest in running modern stuff. If I can have a bit of myth, legend, and history amongst my collection, I look forward to it. Heck Ill even allow whimsy. Click to watch.
(http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u570/GGa1lin/th_MVI_4659_zps65f20aa4.jpg) (http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u570/GGa1lin/MVI_4659_zps65f20aa4.mp4)
Paucity?!?!, I had to look it up :-[. but I did look it up 8)
GG1,
That video was pretty neat. I rode a tourist train last month with my wife and three grandchildren. The Black Hills Central, between Keystone and Hill City, SD, about 10 miles each way. Bought RT tickets for us all for $100. Not bad for today's prices for a two-hour ride.
It was a standard gauge ex-CB&Q route, through gorgeous mountain scenery. Power was an ex-Rayonier Lumber 2-6-6-2ST. The cars were immaculate.
In all my career, I've never run a steamer, although I did get a nice cab ride on the Essex CT Boat Train.
My N-scale Denver Union Terminal Railroad (set in the 1960's) has three steam locos. A Life-Like USRA 4-6-2 in CB&Q, a Bachmann Santa Fe 4-8-4, and a UP 0-6-0. The 4-8-4 has been modified with pickup on all tender wheels, and the 0-6-0 was kitbashed from a 2-6-2, with relocated headlight.
Les
In reference to the song "Casey Jones," I would argue that this specific version may be the most fun, featuring Jerry Colonna and the artists of Walt Disney Producitons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIrjnWKM9Tw
Quote from: Skarloey Railway on August 11, 2013, 01:36:04 PM
Quote from: jward on August 11, 2013, 11:01:14 AM
while I will admit turn of the century railroading has a certain charm, for me the era to model is the 1970s. the equipment is something I am familiar with in real life., and the operating practices based on my own experiences. there really isn't a lot of historical research I need to do, because I was there. can't say that about the 1890s.
Isn't the research all part of the fun?
research is fun, but not as much fun as being there. it is hard to get the context of things 100 years later, because so much of the mundane did not survive. at least with more modern (post ww2) eras, there are people still alive who were there, and their stories about what it was actually like are worth far more than any book.
put another way, when I worked with the railroad, the signs of the past were everywhere. it was nice to have people around who could explain what all those abandoned buildings and tracks were used for.
Quote from: J3a-614 on August 11, 2013, 10:54:49 PM
In reference to the song "Casey Jones," I would argue that this specific version may be the most fun, featuring Jerry Colonna and the artists of Walt Disney Producitons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIrjnWKM9Tw
I beat you J3a, my "Rocky the squirrel" introduction to a link, previous page, began with James Earl Jones but ended up Disney. ;)
Quote from: Doneldon on August 10, 2013, 06:05:37 PM
There's also an endearing (to me, anyway), spunky, funky charm to the smaller equipment. I won't use the c-word (no, not that one -- get your mind out of the gutter) but they do make me feel a little squishy inside and like I should cuddle one. Compared to the giants which came later -- and I have nothing whatsoever against big steam -- they evoke images of the little engine that could or man against the arctic.
-- D
I more or less agree with you, D. (Sorry if I'm late. I was away over the weekend.) I.C. #382 was probably "big passenger power" when it was built in 1896.
Quote from: Desertdweller on August 11, 2013, 01:20:42 PM
I think we should cut Casey some slack. Worked past his limits, he tried to minimize the effects of the crash by staying on the engine and laying on the brakes. His actions probably saved many lives. Most engineers I have talked to about this consider him an unlucky hero, as I do.
Amen. :)