Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: bob kaplan on August 19, 2013, 01:59:17 PM



Title: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: bob kaplan on August 19, 2013, 01:59:17 PM
Any thoughts as to where or what Bachmann might go with its Large Scale Product in the future.

  I have no interest in diesel or traction (1:20.3, 1:29 or other wise)...though I realize that others most certainly do. I was a bit dismayed with the new announcement.  Many of us have most certainly made our hopes and wishes known on this forum....but does anyone have an idea of... NOT WHAT YOU WANT, but rather where Bachmann is heading?  What .... if any new Large Scale products might we see from Bachmann?

Just you thoughts might be interesting...of course if you know for sure....input would be appreciated.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Dave on August 19, 2013, 04:29:59 PM
You have raised a good point there Bob. I guess Bachmann will eventually run out of Narrow Gauge prototypes to model, after all, there was only a certain amount built. I see them consolidating on what they've got and improving on the detail and running gear on both their Locomotives and Rolling Stock
      They could do things like, make the couplings more scale size and a little more positive in their coupling action. Spoked wheels look great, as the prototypes had on their rolling stock. Sprung Bogies ride a heap better
as well. These are not big expensive items but they make the appearance, and performance of rolling stock better.
        There is an abundance of Narrow Gauge Steam Locomotives that were in use in other countries as well. Here in New Zealand we were deeply influenced by The Baldwin design of Locomotive and being all narrow gauge 3ft 6in, there is lots of them. We were first to have the Pacific and Mountain Class Loco and they were very successful. Check them out on the Web.
          Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject

                         Dave


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on August 19, 2013, 11:31:40 PM
Hi all,

Well I'm thinking they will be doing more 1/29th items with the success of the new street car!  Ah, but what will it be????  Steam? Diesel?  Rolling stock??  The 1/29th items seem to dominate the industry in quantity and sales, but there are a lot more items that group of modelers would put out cold hard cash for.  There are even many interesting diesels yet to be made in 1/29th, not to mention various styles of freight cars and caboose cars.  Among many I know, they prefer diesels especially with 4 wheel trucks because they are so forgiving of bad track. ::)  One guy I know has 40 1/29th steam engines, but his track is so bad he runs only short wheelbase geeps or switchers often with only two or three cars, all on a massive layout. :'(  In spite of that he still buys more 1/29th steamers more like a collector and most of the diesels as well, but the point is he still buys them and that is revenue for the maker.

If they do make diesels, I would like to see them made with a battery compartment and R/C socket accessible from the TOP.

Enough speculating on my part!

Bill



Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: M1FredQ on August 20, 2013, 09:49:19 AM
At least for now we have those "Buses" coming out soon. Those should look really nice in LARGE scale.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Chris PRR on August 20, 2013, 11:43:51 AM
As far as diesels,  I'd like to see the Baldwin Sharks or an FM Trainmaster.  As for steam, any of the Pennsy Duplexes.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Kevin Strong on August 20, 2013, 12:23:22 PM
...I guess Bachmann will eventually run out of Narrow Gauge prototypes to model, after all, there was only a certain amount built...
Not by a long shot, unless you're thinking in generic terms (i.e, they've done a 2-6-0, so no more moguls; they've done a caboose, box car, etc.) There is a tremendous amount of variety in terms of narrow gauge prototypes because each railroad was for the most part unique in what they ran. But therein lies the conundrum. You may never run out of prototypes, but who's going to buy them in sufficient quantities to justify the cost of mass production? How many people model the East Timbuktu and Middle of Nowhere Western? (I mean, besides me?)

It will be interesting to see if Bachmann's foray into 1:29 represents a new direction for them. It is easier to sell standard gauge prototypes because they are more universal. Not only did multiple railroads buy GP-38s, but it's very common to see Railroad X and Railroad Y locomotives on the same train (to say nothing of freight cars of all flavors). I'd expect that to be an easier sell.

I don't "anticipate" Bachmann tipping their hat until they've got the next thing ready to go into production. Personally, I'm still holding off on building my EBT M-1 just in case...

Later,

K


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: bob kaplan on August 20, 2013, 02:59:39 PM
I was hoping that Bachmann might release modernize versions for their mogul and the 4-4-0...small engines that would be at home on a small R.R. The versions that are out now are limited to a time period....modern domes, cabs etc would make the applicable to the end of the 40's.   The models now exit the tracks in the 20's at the latest.  Using basically the same engine, just modifications....Does Bachmann see a future in this?


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Skarloey Railway on August 20, 2013, 04:01:06 PM
You have raised a good point there Bob. I guess Bachmann will eventually run out of Narrow Gauge prototypes to model, after all, there was only a certain amount built.

Err, unless you're thinking that there is one shay and one climax and one consolidation and one Forney, this is utterly ridiculous. Sure, they could run out eventually but it would be somewhere between 2 and 5 thousand models of locomotives alone.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Dave on August 20, 2013, 06:13:08 PM
Well, I for one, would be interested in seeing your list of 2-5 thousand models of Narrow gauge Locomotives
that Bachmann might consider Modelling.
   I thought this Forum was for people to express their ideas on topics of interest, not to be told they are utterly
ridiculous.

                  Dave


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: GG1onFordsDTandI on August 20, 2013, 08:38:28 PM
Skarloey's estimate may be a little high, but consider how many conversion kits are available for the On30 shays alone, I get his point. One model yielding 10 "one-offs", and the next thing you know, you have a whole lot of locos, each different. Not to mention few proto locos are 100% identical, so even the change of engine numbers could be a representation of a different "model" to some.(nit picking of vernacular aside).
  Dave I see your point too, but I am more of a "runner" than a "modeler". Engine variation is more important to me than road name, in fact I prefer plain engines, no road names. Road names and 100% proto engine models together, seem to me to "lock in" what the loco would be doing, as well as where. Great for those who model that line, a little awkward for others creating a custom line. A blank slate is easier for anyone to model as they see fit. Adding to a blank, easier that removing what you don't want to see. I never understood why more trains aren't produced black, sans lettering, with decals sets supplying the road names and engine numbers. It seems the obscure lines with pre lettered locos, tend to the needs of those who would excel at lettering themselves anyhow. Proprietary paint wouldn't apply here, but for most steamers, I just don't understand the variety of road name offerings on otherwise identical locos.
Where is Bachmann heading in G? Only time will tell. Right now to abandon the narrow gauge line would yield a lot of anger amongst their established customer base, but the lost sales too those producing modern equipment in standard gauge (standard and g, same gauge track. I associate the "G" with large scale, on narrow gauge track) is a concern too. I doubt they will lock themselves into one niche, however successful. Variety, and willingness to step a little out of the present comfort zone, is often as key to long term success as sticking with what got you there. 
I really like Bob Ks idea for repurposed old Americans and other smaller locos, not every NG or short line ran new, or purely industrial locos. Some used outdated equipment converted to NG.  ;) (Please don't ask me for a list Dave :D)


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: JerryB on August 21, 2013, 04:37:03 AM
Well, I for one, would be interested in seeing your list of 2-5 thousand models of Narrow gauge Locomotives
that Bachmann might consider Modelling.
   I thought this Forum was for people to express their ideas on topics of interest, not to be told they are utterly
ridiculous.

                  Dave

Michael Koch, in his book, "Shay, Titan of the Timber" lists 3354 Shay locomotives and 34 Willamette locomotives. I'm not going to sit down and go through the entire list, but on the two random pages I did count, something over a third were narrow gauge. That would imply that there were well over 1000 narrow gauge Shays alone!

Now add all the other types of narrow gauge geared locomotives, rod locomotives and internal combustion locomotives around the world and the statement of 2000 to 5000 narrow gauge locomotives would seem to be very probable.

What about this is ". . . utterly ridiculous?

Happy (Well Researched) RRing,

Jerry


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: aspoz on August 21, 2013, 07:55:22 PM
Well I'm happy enough for them to go down the 1:29 route provided the 1:20.3 (or thereabouts) doesn't get completely neglected.  One would imagine that if they are going to move into standard gauge then 4 axle diesels are the most likely product; but I'm not up with that market enough to know if there are significant gaps in it.  You'd have to think that a mallet using two of the bug mauler or C-19 mechanisms would also be a possibility.

In narrow gauge I would have thought that a re-release of the Heisler with an upgraded spec must be a good possibility given there are "current" Shays and Climaxes; but timing probably depends on the stock levels of the latter and indeed how well they are selling.  That may be wish fulfillment though, as it's my favourite geared loco.

From a wider perspective a more modern image 4-4-0 or 2-6-0 based on the Spectrum versions would certainly be attractive to me (damn, I just typed 3-3-0 instead of 4-4-0, now that's a prototype I'd like to see....).  But those possibilities aside, I would have thought variations on the C-19 theme with the aim of keeping tooling costs down, possibly looking at the EBT prototype, is the most probable.  My personal wish list includes a mid 20th century coach and a railmotor, a Brill if possible but a Doodlebug if no other choice - however, I'm not holding my breath.

Steve


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: adir Tom on August 21, 2013, 09:28:44 PM
I expect(hope!!) to see Bachmann enter the 1:29 full bore in the next few years. There is a real need for consistant  supply of affordable 1:29. It is essentially down to one major supplier with protype American cars and almost no availability of steam engines, Yes there are vendors, but the pricing or availability are out the price range for most of us. This creates a market need that Bachmann could easily fill.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: bob kaplan on August 21, 2013, 10:01:31 PM
In the last two posts it was mentioned that hopes are for Bachmann to enter the 1:29 scale market since there is essentially one supplier of that scale.  If Bachmann does this and leaves the 1:20.3 market, what other manufacture is there for models of that scale (@ reasonable)?...They are the only ones that i know of that are suppliers of that scale.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on August 21, 2013, 11:44:06 PM
I don't think Bachmann will abandon 1:20.3 anytime soon, but will add 1/29th slowly and see how it goes.  In the end if they can make money in 1:20.3 they will continue to make items.  If they are not making money it will fade away like most of the 1:22.5 items have faded away except for the Annie and trainsets.  If the profit margin is high on Thomas stuff or lil Big Haulers, but very low per unit on a 1:20.3 super perfect scale steamer and you sell a ton of Thomas, but not a great amount of the 1:20.3 super perfect scale steamer, what decisions would you make if you were in business and had to make money.  Then there are warranty costs, so if the costly steamer is expensive to repair but the Thomas very simple, there are savings there as well.  Think about how much time it takes a tech to replace a gear in a Connie as opposed to one in a 4 wheel diesel motor block. 

In all honesty, in my 60 plus years of model railroading, the steamers were always the problem locos compared to dismal::) diesels which were much more trouble free.  Gee, just like the real railroads ;D! 

Do I hope we will see more steam yes, but will not be surprised to see them come slower.   

As for Shays there may have been thousands of different versions, but if Bachmann chose to produce 50 different shays would you buy all 50, could you afford all 50?  I know I could not and actually as much as I love them would not if I could.  Same with other locos.  Once the master Lee Riley retires, who will replace him, with the crazy all out determination and work to death mentality that he has?

I try very hard not to offend anyone and hope I have not with this post, what I am trying to say is that Bachmann as a business has to make a profit.  Insufficient sales to reach profit points on a specific product will eventually lead to elimination of the product.

No offense, but I hope common sense!!! ::)

Bill



Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: john1937 on August 22, 2013, 06:44:33 AM
Dave mentioned Baldwin influence in New Zealand 3ft 6in narrow gauge. Baldwin had an influence in Australia too. See . http://www.puffingbilly.com.au/‎ and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffing_Billy_Railway
Baldwin also provided Lyn to the Lynton and Barnstaple railway in UK. (David Fletcher has shown both Lyn and NA locomotives together. See: http://www.762club.com/images/gallery5/5.pdf or http://www.pacificng.com/ref/blw/style/stylediag/Na1-Lyn-Colour2-STLE-292-223.png )
If Bachmann is looking to provide more narrow gauge locos and rolling stock, then I suggest that the NA class of locomotives supported by the Puffing Billy Preservation Society would be great candidates. The NA class is similar to the Lyn model but has a 2-6-2T wheel arrangement (Prairie). Two were manufactured in Philadelphia USA and the remaining 15 in Australia between 1898 and 1915. Five of the 15 are still in service: see http://pbps.puffingbilly.com.au/rolling-stock/locomotive-fleet/ . NA 3A (in storage) & 6A were in Victorian Railways Green livery, 7A & 12A were in V.R. Red livery, and 8A & 14A were “all over black”. So Bachmann could produce several different locos economically in the one production run, with each representing an existing heritage loco. If they wished, they could add one of the first two in the Baldwin Green as portrayed by David Fletcher. (A black live steam model was reviewed by Marc Horovitz in May 2001: see http://www.sidestreetbannerworks.com/locos/loco13.html but this model no longer appears to be in production.)
John


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: grcaprez on August 23, 2013, 05:18:29 AM
To go back to the original post: I am totally ignorant about what you are talking about. Obviously there has been a "new announcement" by Bachmann. What is this? New product, new scale?

Gion


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: GG1onFordsDTandI on August 23, 2013, 05:49:56 AM
To go back to the original post: I am totally ignorant about what you are talking about. Obviously there has been a "new announcement" by Bachmann. What is this? New product, new scale?
Gion
I assumed it was something here, but didn't really check out G yet. http://www.bachmanntrains.net/Catalogs/2013/NMRA_2013.pdf


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Skarloey Railway on August 23, 2013, 08:45:41 AM
Just to come back. I wasn't remotely suggesting that Dave is ridiculous, merely pointing out that his statement that Bachmann could run out of NG prototypes to model is a little improbable, given the vast numbers of NG locomotives built in the US alone.

I also wasn't suggesting that Bachmann ought or could make models of all of them! Obviously they have to produce models that will sell and I suspect the large scale market is trickier than the smaller scales where most modellers tend to follow a particular type of NG  railroad, be it, logging, mining/industrial, common-carrier, etcetera, and a company can reasonably assume that if it's sold lots of shays and climaxes there'd be a demand for another logging loco like a Heisler. Large scalers seem much more capricious in their wants and often will run anything with any other thing without worrying about what the prototype did.

Personally, if Bachmann took to working its way through Baldwins 1885 Illustrated Catalogue of Narrow-Gauge Locomotives http://archive.org/stream/illustratednarro00baldrich#page/n73/mode/2up I'd be very happy indeed.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on August 23, 2013, 09:30:54 AM
Gion,

The item is on page 5 or 6 on the announcement pdf URL posted by GG1 above.  It is the only new Large Scale item announced for 2013 and is the Peter Witt Streetcar in 1/29th Scale.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Chastity on August 23, 2013, 02:22:46 PM
Not sure exactly what the Peter Witt means.  It is in 1:29 so perhaps a foray into that side of the large scale market.  While I do not see Bachmann dropping the 1:20.3 this maybe an indication of branching into another part of the market place.  I just wonder why a trolley for the first prototype?

Of course Bachmann has always gone its own way with things.  I can not help but wonder if they will niche this market as well and say work with interurban/electric railway stuff. The thought of making the trolley compatible to work off real overhead is nice.  Steeple cabs, and maybe even modern street cars like the San Diego Trolley would allow one to run some fairly good size equipment justifiably on narrow turn track.

As far as bigger standard gauge prototypes goes, there is a plethora of stuff not touched upon yet.  Alco road switchers in the RS and Century series comes to mind.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: grcaprez on August 23, 2013, 04:17:38 PM
GG1 and Loco Bill

thank you for the info. So far the "standard" scale for traction equipment has been 1:24, I wonder if the 1:29 is as accurate a description as the "1:20.3" on the small freight cars. Those trolleys look good, and if they are compatible in scale to the previous single-truck trolleys and LGB's New Orleans trolley I will have one.

Gion


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on August 30, 2013, 09:58:58 AM
Been thinking about the 1/29th scale ideas and currently run some kitbashed Bachmann 1:22.5 hoppers modernized with my 1/29th trains and some kitbashed flat cars converted to trailer on flat car cars.  My indoor layout era is from 1905 to 1940 and my outdoor layout is 1941 to 1966.   So I would love to see a shovel nose Pioneer Zephyr in 1/29th.  The three car set would be a great item,  or even a General Pershing Zephyr which was the only non Articulated Zephyr set!  It would be a great steam to diesel transition period item!!  It would be a great train set and I can picture the set box now 8).   



Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: adir Tom on August 30, 2013, 07:34:20 PM
I keep reading here comments of "either" "or" in scales. Bechmann has been very successful in the 1:20 scale. Thus, if anything it would "and". Hopefully they will include 1/29 in their catalog. Especially steam.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: GG1onFordsDTandI on August 30, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Not sure exactly what the Peter Witt means. 

Allow me.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Witt_streetcar


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Dale Loyet on September 20, 2013, 12:29:11 PM
       I thought they would make the 2 cylinder T boiler in 0n 30 , in G scale also. I think they need a smaller back woods logging engine.  Also a battery powered, remote control engine out of the box would be nice. Set it on the track and go, just like the early Big hauler.  Just better quality and detail.


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: M1FredQ on September 22, 2013, 02:24:58 PM
GG!

That post on the Peter Witt is a gold mine of info.

Thanks for posting.

I do plan on getting a Chicago one for our Christmas set-up around the tree. As we go Large scale around the tree. My son Joey is asking we do O Scale this year. I told him if he aces his spelling tests till Thanksgiving I'll do it. Let's see what happens


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: Tom Lapointe on September 22, 2013, 10:22:18 PM
I'll second Dave's comments on a 1:20.3 version of the On30 2-cylinder Shay;  I have an Accucraft live-steam  8) one, but with uninsulated drivers, it doesn't "play nice"  >:( with the track-powered, DCC controlled Bachmann locos (Accucraft DID do an electric version, but being a brass loco, it was as pricey as the live steamer!)  :o.  For a larger prototype, a 1:20.3 3-truck Williamette would be nice (although I'm not sure if any 3-foot gauge prototypes of the Williamette actually existed).  A Little River 2-4-4-2 Mallet would also be an interesting prototype.

I can certainly understand why Bachmann may be getting into 1:29th as well; I occasionally change time period on my "Watuppa Railway" and run 1950's New Haven prototypes.  I'm also a Pennsy fan & one steam prototype which would probably sell VERY well would be a PRR K4s (especially if multiple prototypes were produced such as Bachmann has done with the K-27; a "classic" 1930's K4s with the "chicken coop" pilot  8) , a 1950's version with the so-called "beauty treatment"  ::) with the reversed turbogenerator & headlight positions, and cast pilot with drop coupler).  There are also plenty of diesel prototypes which the the existing 1:29 manufacturers have not produced (I'd be a potential customer for a New Haven Alco RS-11, for example).  And one VERY modern prototype Bachmann already produces in N & HO - the Acela!  8)  (As far as I'm concerned, the LGB "Acela" - a relettered German ICE with STICKERS for windows!  ??? - was a joke!).  I think a Large-Scale 1:29 Acela, done to a level of detail comparable to the fantastic Spectrum Large-Scale long Rio Grande caboose, would be a fantastic piece of modern equipment.  8)  Just my 2 cents. worth.   ;)  Tom


Title: Re: what might be next for Large Scale
Post by: smcgill on September 24, 2013, 07:08:16 AM
       I thought they would make the 2 cylinder T boiler in 0n 30 , in G scale also. I think they need a smaller back woods logging engine. 

Great Idea!! ;D