Bachmann Online Forum

Discussion Boards => Large => Topic started by: mudhen on September 29, 2013, 10:56:01 AM

Title: Scales
Post by: mudhen on September 29, 2013, 10:56:01 AM
OK now,
I have heard so many scales of model railroading.
I myself am using G Scale engines and rolling stock in 1/29 for standard gauge and engines, equipment in Narrow Gauge 1.20.3 (Fn3).
In one of my searches on the internet today , someone has come up with Gn3,??????
Is this the beginning of another scale.
Sometimes I think people just make up scales to suit themselves because they mix and match there rolling stock and don't know the difference in scales or care too.
Scales I know in G scale are , 1:24 , 1:29 , both in standard and narrow gauge and 1:32 standard gauge.
Then Fn3 1:20.3. in narrow gauge.
I have no idea what scale LGB is, somewhere around 1:26 or there abouts I am guessing.
Anyone else care to comment on this Gn3 scale. Also feel free to add other G scale gauges I didn't mention.
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Skarloey Railway on September 29, 2013, 11:33:30 AM
LGB is, nominally, 1:22.5, with 45mm gauge track representing metre gauge prototypes.
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on September 30, 2013, 11:09:56 AM
In some countries Gn3 refers to the 1:22.5 scale on 45MM track, similar to LGB and The Bachmann Standard Line and Big Haulers line of 1:22.5 products.

There are many offshoots such as Gn15 and 7/8th all running on 45mm gauge track.
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Tony Walsham on September 30, 2013, 05:48:23 PM
Bill.
I think you will find Gn15 is 1:22.5 scale running on H0 track to represent 15" gauge estate railways.
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on September 30, 2013, 10:02:51 PM
Thanks Tony, There are so many oddities I can't keep up with it all anymore!!
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Tony Walsham on October 01, 2013, 10:15:28 AM
That is the beauty of the hobby.
Model Railroading opens up the ability to express so much creativity.
I love the oddities.  Usually adapted from the equipment originally sold in other scales.
Long live the kitbasher.
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 01, 2013, 03:01:05 PM
Kitbashing is my favorite sport!! ;D ;D 8) 8)
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: scottychaos on October 11, 2013, 10:20:17 PM
Quote from: mudhen on September 29, 2013, 10:56:01 AM

Scales I know in G scale are , 1:24 , 1:29 , both in standard and narrow gauge and 1:32 standard gauge.


Incorrect..
technically there is only one "G scale", and it is 1/22.5 scale, which represents meter gauge on 45mm track.
1/29 and 1/24 are not "G scale"..

the problem is, the terms "G scale" and "G gauge" are used as generic terms to mean "anything that runs on 45mm track"..
The better term for "anything that runs on 45mm track" is "Large Scale", not G scale..

So, if you believe there is only the one G scale, then "Gn3" makes perfect sense..it would be 3-foot gauge in 1/22.5 scale.
but! another problem, because I suspect the people who actually use the term "Gn3" are probably referring to meter gauge,
not literal 3-foot gauge..if that is the case, they should technically call it Gn39.3701 scale..but no one is going to do that! ;)
but yeah, overall the various scale designations in "Large Scale" are a bit of a mess..always have been.

I have never had any complaints, corrections or even debate over the terms used on this chart:

(http://www.mylargescale.com/1stclass/garyArmitstead/Large-scale-scales2.gif)

link to full size: http://www.mylargescale.com/1stclass/garyArmitstead/Large-scale-scales2.gif

So I think its pretty well accepted, overall, that G-scale should properly only refer to 1/22.5 scale.
which is mostly produced by LGB.
Scot
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: scottychaos on October 11, 2013, 10:32:37 PM
And there is nothing wrong with creating new scales..it still happens occasionally.
1/29 scale has only existed for 25 years..(Aristocraft Alco FA, 1988)

I created a new scale, it's called 29n2 scale:

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/29n2/29n2-63.jpg)

The Alco PA is 1/29 scale.
the Forney is 29n2 scale.
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/29n2/29n2-page1.html

I created 29n2 scale because I wanted to model Maine 2-footers alongside 1/29 scale Standard Gauge trains..
as far as I know, I am still the only person who models in 29n2 scale..
and even if i'm the only one ever, that's ok with me.  ;D
Scot
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 11, 2013, 11:19:58 PM
Don't know what the heck I would call my scale ::), I use some 1:22.5 items and some 1:20.3 items along with 1:24 and 1:32nd scale people and a few short 1:22.5 people and 1:24 scale people :o on my steam powered "standard gauge" indoor Missouri Western Railway layout.  Buildings, a little of every scale many home made to "whatever"  :D scale which actually looks great with the rest of the hodgepodge :P.  If things look OK to me from 10 feet away, I am happy :).  I never obsess  8)about scale in Large scale because so little is really available.  Just try and find a 1:20.3 truck or automobile, not a lot out there, or 1:29th for that matter.  There are lots of 1:32 scale autos and trucks which I use with my mixed   ::) 1:29th/1:32nd scale stuff on my outdoor layout. 

Bottom line if things look ok to you then don't worry about it, just have fun!  In over 60 plus years of model railroading I have never had someone look at my models and say "Gee Bill, you are using a 1957 Ford and it should be a 1956 Ford in this scene"  or Gee, Bill you are using 1:22.5 engine with a 1:20.3 engine to represent standard gauge"   Most of the time it is the opposite, they feel things look great and I am asked  where I found this or that item (out of scale actually) so that they can get the item as well.

If you obsess over everything and it is fun for you great, if you fudge the scale stuff and are having fun that is great as well. Even Scot fudges using 1:29th scale but is having fun with it even though it is not 100% correct.

Correct is what is correct for you!!

"Just have fun"

Bill
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: charon on October 12, 2013, 12:33:29 AM
Bill,
For automobiles, I use the Hubley 1/20 scale metal car kits.  They are from the 1915's thru the 1930's and are fun to build and paint.  Right now there are 28 listed on Ebay priced from $29 up.
Happy Bachmanning!
Chuck
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: GG1onFordsDTandI on October 12, 2013, 01:26:31 AM
One of the reasons I don't concern myself with scale much, is I personally find the whole shebang full of buzz words, and very confusing. There ought to be a better way to classify. I'd prefer it if the scale ratio numbers, as in 1:24, were used everywhere first and foremost (1:24 was also the original G scale, not the more correct 1:22.5). If the scale of the track gauge is off, a figure denoting this could be added after.
Terms like O, S, large, standard, #1, and G whether talking of scale or gauge, should only be used as generic terms if you ask me. And the technical aspect, should be referred to by ratio numbers, which would work for any measuring system. A good system I say would list, 1- ratio of scale. 2- track gauge and code used. 3- the (+)/(-)ratio of track to the proto. Most people would never care about the last figures, but it would let the rivet counters keep counting.
Much of this confusion is instigated by manufacturers using buzz terms. Computer software companies are a great example of confusion caused by buzz words. When I run into buzz terms, meant to enforce brands vs attempting to achieve a terminology "norm", I buck back hard. A demand by you, the consumer, for simplified, standardized, terminology is the only way to cease the nonsense, no matter what the product.  
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Kevin Strong on October 12, 2013, 03:12:06 AM
Quote from: GG1onFordsDTandI on October 12, 2013, 01:26:31 AM
(1:24 was also the original G scale, not the more correct 1:22.5).
There may have been 1:24 trains before "G scale," but they weren't called "G scale." That originally was a marketing term coined by LGB for their line of 1:22.5 trains. G stood for Garten (Garden) or Gross (Large). (Early US importers called it "K scale", for King.) 1:24 as we know it today came about because the math was easier for US manufacturers (1/2" = 1') and there were already extensive products for dollhouses, etc. available as accessories. As has been said above, "G scale" has since become a generic term for all manner of trains that run on 45mm track, regardless of particular scale. If you go to a hobby shop and ask for "G scale," they're going to show you products with scales ranging from 1:32 to 1:20.3. While I agree that "Large Scale" is a far better term to use as an umbrella term, the die is unfortunately already cast.

To their credit, the manufacturers today are generally pretty good about stating the scale of their products on their boxes. Some are better than others, but anything's better than the nothing we had years ago.

Later,

K
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 12, 2013, 09:08:47 AM
Kevin is very correct about the impact of the first LGB trains.  I spent about 12 of my 33 year military career in Germany and bought one of the very first sets they came out with, at the then whopping price of about $66.  Back when they first came out the G stood strictly for "Gross" or "Large" and there was no other major brand of what we now call G Scale or Large Scale. They stated from the beginning they were suitable for outdoor use.  LGB held the bragging rights for the biggest baddest largest trains around. At the time, Garden Railways magazine did not exist nor did Bachmann Large scale or other manufacturers, all that came later.  G for "Garten"  or Garden evolved as time went on and the popularity of LGB exploded and outdoor railroads became popular.   Although we had fun with our LGB, I was personally put off by the European prototypes. Being military we never had a chance to do a garden railway so the LGB set ran around the tree at christmas and we acquired more track and flat cars which my kids used to deliver presents.  It was always chaos around our place at christmas.  I was always  an HO scale fan, but when Bachmann came out with the 4-6-0 my loyalty switched to Large Scale. There was no confusion about scale at the time and most of us called it G Scale.  The generic G scale stuck and the LGB 45mm track became the standard.

In spite of a still relatively small number of followers, I am amazed at what is actually available to us.

Chuck, the Hubley vehicles are extremely nice,  do you have any pictures you can post of how you use them in your modeling scenes??  

Have fun, Bill
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: GG1onFordsDTandI on October 12, 2013, 07:12:31 PM
Lehmann Gross Bahn, I will concede the outdoor marketing, and first official use of G-scale as part of it. But most of the previous garden railroads were 1:24, #1 gauge(44.45mm, close enough for me), and I remember reading about a couple garden railroads in old 1940s and 50s model RR magazines I had. The ones I saw as a kid were not LGB, way too old, and the man Gramps knew, did refer to them as garden trains constantly(an E or F carbody, and a 2-4-2(?)). Coincidence? Maybe. I hadn't even realized the .05mm gauge difference till just recently.
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: armorsmith on October 13, 2013, 12:53:53 AM
@Scot - 1/29 has been around far longer than that.  It was related to me (I wish I could remember by whom) that Aristo Craft chose that scale to be the same size as the pre-war 'standard gauge' tin plate trains. Also, if I remember the gauge of the standard gauge trains was like 2-1/8 or some such.

@GG1 - A little more clarification on the scale issue.  In the engineering circles, 1:22.5 is a standard European/ISO scale for engineering drawings.  Not so here in the states.  LGB models were generally speaking of European Narrow Gauge prototypes, European narrow gauge being 1 Meter.

As for scales on 45mm* track, there is another thread either here or on another fora that runs down the list.  I will repeat it here for convenience.  For all practical purposes -

1:32  45mm = 56.6929 - just slightly over the standard 56.5 in American modern mainline
1:29  45mm = 51.3779 - not really a railroad gauge that I am aware of, but accepted in the Large Scale circles, although for model conversion, exactly 3 time HO scale.
1:24  45mm = 42.5196 - a bit over 42in, which existed in the US and abroad.  US railroads were usually logging or mining operations.  African continent still runs 42in gauge I believe.
1:22.5  45mm = 1m gauge - standard European narrow gauge
1:20.32  45mm = 36.00 gauge - very common narrow gauge.  Denver and Rio Grande Western had hundreds of miles, others of note - East Tennessee and Western North Carolina (Tweetsie), East Broad Top.
1:13.5466  45mm = 24in gauge - most notably the Maine 'two footers', the Sandy River and Rangeley Lakes.

*   I am not sure how to clarify the actual track gauge.  The G1MRA is not clear on the gauge, and for many years they were the definitive source for Gauge 1.  The G1MRA standards http://www.markwoodwheels.co.uk/wheels/scalesandstandards.htm state track gauge as 45mm (1.772in), however in their Gauge One Scene page on their web site they state 1.75in (44.45mm) http://www.g1mra.com/?page_id=24.  To further muddy the waters, our favorite web authority, Wikipedia, mentions that the correct gauge for 1:32 would be 1.766in (44.84mm).  I have chose for my purposes to use 45mm.

Confusing?  You bet.  Now add that some manufacturers claim a particular scale, but I think their ruler is made of some kind of rubber.

FWIW  Bob C.
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: charon on October 13, 2013, 06:37:52 AM
Bill,
Those photos that you posted for me back in February had some of the Hubley 1/20th vehicles on them.  Those are the one that I emailed you. I still haven't been able to successfully transfer pix from photobucket to this site.
In case anybody's interested, my 15" radius curves are still working fine.
Chuck
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: GG1onFordsDTandI on October 13, 2013, 09:37:44 AM
Armorsmith, that "presentation" of facts is very close to being the "system" of my dreams, especially in that it is very understandable. Got any pull in the NMRA? You also helped me figure my 1980's Lionel D&RGW is likely 1:20.32 scale( or rubber scale :D)
(I wore my old guys rule shirt early yesterday  8) Then a shirt with an orange kitty and a big letter D  ;) Today I think a life is good shirt is in order ;D)


edit: addition of "1980s"
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 13, 2013, 10:06:44 AM
Chuck, Forgot about that!  I will take another look. Bill
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Kevin Strong on October 13, 2013, 11:06:05 AM
A lot of the "pre-LGB-era" garden railroads I've seen in the magazines (all well before my time) were 2.5" gauge ("Gauge 3" or "scale II" depending on which land mass you're standing on). That scale has similar "issues" to large scale, as the track gauge is stated either as 2.5" or 64mm depending on whether you use imperial or metric, and the scale people use for the trains that run on it historically has ranged from 1:24 (simple for us Luddites who use feet and inches) to either 1:22.5 or 1:22.6 depending on which specific reference you're looking at.

In terms of naming the scales based on numbers, there was an effort put forth around 15 or so years ago to make that happen. It used "LS##" where the number signs were the specific scale of the trains. If I recall, they were also color-coded, so "LS20" would have a different banner color than "LS29." It never went anywhere. The overall sense I got was that by doing that, it fragmented the market. People would stop buying 1:29 cars and running them with their 1:22 locos, etc, and manufacturers at that time relied on that cross-pollination of scales to keep sales viable.

From what I've seen on people's railroads of late, I don't know things are any different today. That ability to run everything together is still a hallmark of many hobbyists involved in large scale railroading, and with the shrinking economy (thus shrinking pool of customers that follows), I don't know that manufacturers would willingly sign onto anything that would segment their market. Some--at a minimum--are marking the scale on the box and/or marketing literature.

The other problem we run into with any kind of distinct separation based on scales is that there are so many things that don't fall into those categories. Bachmann's "Li'l Big Hauler" line is strictly a toy line. Same with the Thomas stuff. Piko took a page out of Aristo's playbook, and builds their stuff so that the models are the same overall size as those offered by LGB, etc. The result is that their models range in scale. Many are close to 1:26, but it's not consistent. I've got one of their starter sets here, with an 0-6-0 (freelance, no scale), hopper (1:32) and caboose (1:24). Many scales in the same box!

When I worked with the NMRA on their current wheel and track standards, we purposefully stayed away from any attempt to categorize specific scales under the "Large Scale" umbrella since all are designed to work together on the same track. The only exceptions were "#1 scale" (1:32) and "F scale" (1:20.3) since the former had long been established as its own scale and the latter had some level of commercial support in terms of standard gauge "F scale" (1:20.3, 70.6mm gauge) in addition to Fn3 (1:20.3, 45mm gauge). (It helped that one of the guys working with us was a manufacturer making F standard gauge stuff.) But while these two scales are specifically broken out, the specific values for the standards are the same as the generic "Large Scale" standards. (If I recall, wheel tread width is the only place where we got more specific on each individual one.) As a result of that specific push to stay away from compartmentalizing the various scales we have in large scale, I don't see the NMRA looking to switch gears on that front. (Nor do I see them having an impact anyway--how many of Bachmann's offerings are advertised as "Fn3" as opposed to "1:20.3?" And the "F" designation has been around since shortly after the scale began to gain traction.)

Later,

K
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: scottychaos on October 13, 2013, 04:46:00 PM
Quote from: armorsmith on October 13, 2013, 12:53:53 AM
@Scot - 1/29 has been around far longer than that.  It was related to me (I wish I could remember by whom) that Aristo Craft chose that scale to be the same size as the pre-war 'standard gauge' tin plate trains. Also, if I remember the gauge of the standard gauge trains was like 2-1/8 or some such.



Thats part of the legend, but not the most important part of it.
The more important aspect was matching already existing LGB trains..

Aristocraft created 1/29 scale around 1988 to match already existing LGB trains in the USA.
They wanted to make an American Standard Gauge line of models, but the correct 1/32 scale would have resulted in models noticeably smaller than LGB rolling stock..So to match LGB in physical size, they made them larger, and 1/29 scale was born..

This way, people who already had a lot of LGB rolling stock (which was basically *everyone* before 1988, since LGB was pretty much all there was) could buy the new 1/29 scale trains and run them with their existing LGB trains, and have everything visually match..
The invention of 1/29 scale was a business decision, and a good one! ;)

From the horse mouth, Lewis Polk in 2007:

Quote"Dear All,
It's very simple. My father was a Lionel fanatic and
lived in Irvington, NJ, where Lionel's factory was.
He was a major distributor of their product and
loved Standard Gauge. Lionel's standard gauge
was1:29 and did not run on Gauge1 track,so it too
was out of scale for the track size.

My father, Nat, had sold LGB for many years too
and knew it was out of scale for U.S. sizes being
sized to meter gauge, not 3'. Therefore, like OO in
England he concluded that the track size was not
the most important thing in Large Scale and re-
quested 1/29. We made models in 1/32, 1/24 and
1/29, which was the one with the WOW! factor just
as Lionel's Standard Gauge was in it's time.
The fact that there was millions of miles of Gauge
1 track laid already meant that we needed to make
our trains run on Gauge1 tracks in order to become
commercially viable in Large Scale.The common factor
in Large Scale today is the we all run on Gauge 1
track in spite of many scale philosophies.

When we started there was only LGB and Kalama-
zoo and neither were in 1/32 scale or 1/20.3. We
made a commercial decision based on the WOW of
outdoor train size that had side benefits. It was3x's
HO, it matched LGB more or less and they had 99%
of the market at the time. It also matched Lionel's
Standard Gauge, so with a change of trucks [our
products] could run with Lionel Standard Gauge
layouts.
That's it in a nutshell. 13 years later it's still working.
All the best,
Lewis Polk"

source: http://www.rcgrs.com/Jun07nl.pdf

I have never heard of anyone putting new trucks on modern Aristocraft or USA trains 1/29 scale trains to match older Lionel trains..
although it has probably happened..
but the main focus was clearly matching LGB 1/22.5 scale trains..

Scot
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: scottychaos on October 13, 2013, 05:21:40 PM
Im curious about Lewis' statement:
"Lionel's standard gauge was1:29 and did not run on Gauge1 track, so it too was out of scale for the track size."

Im not convinced that is true..the 1/29 scale part.
Lionel "standard gauge" trains ran on 2 and 1/8 inch gauge track,
then other manufacturers made trains to match, calling them "wide gauge"

Article about these trains:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/model-trains/standard-gauge

The size of the trains themselves did not necessarily match the gauge of the track..
2.125" gauge track would scale to 1/26.6 scale, (or rounded up: 1/27) assuming US standard gauge.
but i dont think the trains themselves necessarily matched the track gauge..
Exact scale modeling was not a priority for tinplate trains..

I can find zero on-line references (apart from the quote from Lewis) where Lionel
standard gauge trains were ever referred to as 1/29 scale..
I dont think they were ever given a specific scale at all..they were simply called "Lionel Standard Gauge" trains..
(or "wide gauge trains" if made by other manufacturers..)

(note: the term "Standard Gauge" in relation to "Lionel Standard Gauge" has NO relation to "Standard Gauge" meaning
4 foot 8.5 inches! ;) They are two completely unrelated and different uses of the term "standard gauge")

So, I suspect that Lewis actually meant "Lionel's standard gauge was *close to* 1:29"..
And he was using that close relationship as another justification for creating his 1/29 scale line in 1988..

I have never seen any reference to 1/29 scale existing before 1988..
and I have never seen any reference to Lionel Standard Gauge being called 1/29 scale..
has anyone?

Here is a thread where the Lionel guys themselves are discussing it:

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/205331.aspx

There is no clear consensus, even among people well-versed in Lionel..
It seems there is no specific scale to "Lionel Standard Gauge"..
Its essentially scale-less..
Its in a range roughly between 1/26 and 1/32, depending on the particular locomotives and cars in question.

So..getting back to 1/29 scale.
I still say that 1/29 scale itself, as a specific scale, did not exist before 1988, and it was invented by Aristocraft.

If anyone can dispute that, I would be interested to hear about it! :)

Scot
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: JerryB on October 13, 2013, 08:15:46 PM
QuoteLewis Polk:

. . . That's it in a nutshell. 13 years later it's still working.

And 6 years later Mr. Polk & Co. are out of business. Seems his idea of goofy gauge / scale combinations didn't work as well as he suggested.

Before a bunch of you jump on my comment, let me say that:

1. I DO NOT believe the scale / gauge combination Aristocraft chose was totally responsible for their demise, but it certainly didn't help. I have a reasonably large collection of LS trains, but not one piece from Aristocraft. In my case, it is largely because their scale / gauge ratio is incorrect and incompatible with my desire to have a model railroad rather than a collection of toy trains.

2. I absolutely defend anyone's right to run whatever scale / gauge combination they want.

The model train hobby has always tended to move from 'anything goes,' toward a recognition of scale / gauge and equipment combinations that are reasonably accurate. Equipment that is reasonably accurate in scale and gauge does not mean less sales to those who don't care, but it will increase sales to the scale modelers who do care.

Happy RRing,

Jerry


Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Chuck N on October 13, 2013, 08:45:15 PM
From limited basis I agree with Scot.  For my first Christmas ( 1940, age 6 mo.) my parents got pre war Lionel, O-27 and "standard gauge" trains.  I played with them until about 1950 when dad and I started HO.

I remember that the passenger cars were way short compared to the locos.  In retrospect I would say LGBs scale choices to the extreme.  If it looked like a rr car that was OK. My guess is that
the only thing correct to the scale of the track was the trucks. 

I have been in this gauge since about 1980.  I still probably have more LGB than any other manufacturer even though I don't run it very often.

In addition to Bachmann Spectrum and others (1:20.3) I have and enjoy 1:22.5/24, and 1:29 trains.  I backed into 1:29 because of Aristo and USAt making "modern" cars that matched with my LGB.  For me it
is now 1:20.3 and 1:29.  I will not invest in another "G" gauge scale.

Chuck
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: scottychaos on October 13, 2013, 08:56:25 PM
Jerry,
you could be right..but I doubt it.
It's also quite possible that if Aristo had chosen the correct 1/32 scale back in 1988, that their fledgling line would have quickly failed and died,
because the entire garden railroading hobby at that time had LGB, and no one would have wanted to buy new 1/32 scale cars
that were so small and out of place with their LGB cars..

It's possible that 1/29, and the fact that it is visually compatible with LGB, led directly to the *growth* of the hobby overall!
I own no LGB, 70% of my trains are Aristo and USA 1/29 scale, and 30% Bachmann..(just because I love the looks of the Spectrum Mogul and 2-8-0! they are gorgeous models that I had to have..but I dont consider myself an Fn3 scale modeler..only a 1/29 scale modeler.)

I personally highly doubt that 1/29 itself had anything to do with Aristo's eventual failure..
If anything, 1/29 led directly to its 25 years of great success in the hobby.
The economy is clearly the primary factor in Aristo's going out of business..
IMO, 1/29 scale has absolutely nothing to do with it at all..I think the past 25 years of growth in 1/29 scale prove that.

It's pretty clear that 1/29 scale has been very successful over the past 25 years, and im sure it will continue to be successful..
So much so that the Large Scale hobby has pretty much settled on only two scales, 1/29 for Standard Gauge,
and Fn3 for narrow gauge..sure, there are still other niche scales like 1/24 and 7/8n2 but none that are strongly commercially viable.
even the traditionally "1/32 scale only" manufacturers, like Accucraft, have begun to offer 1/29 scale products.
And even Bachmann is now offering 1/29 scale! :)
1/29 will live on..

Now if we could only get MTH to switch over to 1/29, all would be great! :)
MTH has some great products..I love their Baldwin VO1000, and they have the only good looking F-unit in the hobby.
But I wont buy them *because* they are 1/32 scale..they dont go with my 1/29 scale trains.
and im not going to model 1/32 *and* 1/29..I made my choice 10 years ago..1/29 wins.

Scot
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 15, 2013, 09:43:22 AM
Anybody have a photo of the MTH Baldwin VO1000 next to a USAT S4  or even better a picture of the MTH F unit next to a USAT F unit
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Bucksco on October 15, 2013, 11:47:15 AM
Just a gentle reminder that this is the Bachmann forum. A discussion of scale is fine - although I personally believe it to be an exercise in futlity in regard to Large Scale! I also understand that a discussion of scales in Large Scale leads to discussions of various manufacturers and why they do what they do. I would caution however that discussions of what other manufacturers should be doing with their respective product lines should be discussed on that manufacturers forum. I would also discourage discussions as to why some of these maunfacturers are no longer in business. Thank you.
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: Loco Bill Canelos on October 15, 2013, 02:43:32 PM
Yardmaster,

Sorry about my post involving other manufacturers I meant the last one simply to show the scale difference,  I am wondering if there is any truth to the rumor that Bachmann will be getting into 1:29 Scale??  I would love to see the value we now have in Large Scale with Bachmann products extend to 1:29 scale.  I know the market is limited and perhaps slow right now, but in the end I would like to see it happen!!

I do modify Bachmann products to run with more modern 1:29 scale products from another manufacturer.    Specifically the Bachmann 3bay hopper which I modernize  and also bash into two bay hoppers and the flat car which I modify and modernize into early trailer on flatcar flats.   Both of these Bachmann products work well with and look great with 1:29 products.

Bill
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: KD0R on October 21, 2013, 10:18:57 AM
My thanks for this discussion.  I'm fairly new to this whole doing it outdoors thing.  Well for that matter I'm new to model railroading in general.  I would appreciate it some of you with more experience/knowledge could help me out.  I'd really like a list of manufactures and the scales they use for their various lines.  With few exceptions I'm not seeing scales marked in ads, nor catalogs.  I know Bachmann Spectrum is 20.3 (Fn3), and I read above that LGB is 22.5, but what about everything else???  A chart would be wonderful.

Thanks,
David
Title: Re: Scales
Post by: scottychaos on October 21, 2013, 06:48:44 PM
David,
this list is in desperate need of updating, I haven't touched it in several years, but it should get you started:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/MLS-kitbashing-guide.html

The Bachmann locos that are *not* 1/20.3 scale are mostly 1/22.5.
And most LGB is 1/22.5 scale, although many LGB locos are selectively compressed in some dimensions.

I really need to update that chart! ;)
maybe I will make a project of it for this winter..

Scot