Hello everyone. I've had several good answers to questions I've posted since joining and appreciate all of your help. I did purchase the Dynamis set with the C&O 2880 locomotive and tender. I put together the 56"x38" oval of track that comes with it and gave it a test run. I love the system as well as EZ track. It is a far cry from my old Lionel 027 layout that I currently have.
Anyway, I've decided to expand the layout in a traditional 4x8 format and in using the Anyrail software, I've created a over/under loop with a passing siding and one parking siding. I will have two DCC turnouts and two remote turnouts. The total track length is about 44'. My question is: will the power supply be sufficient to run this layout with two DCC decoded engines?
I'm building this initial layout with an option to expand on one end in the future and surely realize I'll have to purchase a booster of some sort that I've seen mentioned here and there on the site.
Thanks again for the help
Based on what you describe I think the power is adquate but you will probably want to add feeders at various points along the track to make up for the resistance that will occur the further the locomotive gets from the power source. I have a small 4 x 6 layout running DCC and have an extra feeder at the opposite end of the layout.
8SG,
The Dynamis system has a power supply of 2.3 amps which is powerful enough to run a layout of that size with no additional feeders.
I would suggest to add the feeders as Joe recommended. One good reason is the further your loco is from the main feeder the lesser current it will receive to operate. Some loco's pull more current from the rails than others and also running multiple loco's will reduce it also.
If you are going to expand then you will have already have your feeders in place so you won't have to dismantle what you have started thus far.
As far as a booster being needed will depend on how much your layout grows. I have a 30x16 that I still use the EZ command with numerous feeders and all is fine. Up until recently I added the booster that I had purchased over 2 yrs. ago and really did not notice a big difference but kept it on there anyway. I have run up to four loco's at one time (2 with sound) without the booster. You may not need the boosterontime will tell.
DCC is very hungry as it starts to grow. ;D
Please post some pics when you start building, we would love to see it and your progress as you go along,
Jerry
Joe & Jerry, thank you for the info. I have 3 extra feeder/rerailers I was going to incorporate into the layout anyway so it's good news to know all I'd need to do is feed power to them. I've spent about 3 weeks since I bought the Dynamis set, tinkering with Anyrail at various designs on a 4x8 layout. I had it fairly complex at one time and decided simpler is better and scaled it way down. Besides, I'm certain I'll expand in the future and didn't want to make another significant investment in a lot more track at this time. I've actually tried to post earlier and attached the file plan but evidently it was too large and the whole post was washed.
I've been looking at other posts on here regarding layouts and designs. I'll build the table tomorrow. It's a bonus that I'm a self-employed cabinet maker and carpenter of 30 years plus. From the previous Lionel layout, I learned to simply take the EZ track and set it up on the floor before I cut one board. Anyrail is pretty much dead on with the dimensions. I'm using the free trial which limits to 50 pieces, which is ok. Long straights I use the 36" piece in the model, knowing what I have and what I actually need.
I had won a new set of 56" x 38" EZ track with a LH DCC turnout on ebay at the same time I was going to buy the whole set. I rounded up a couple of remote turnouts and a few more straights and am good to go. I'm looking forward to this venture and if I can figure out how to downsize a file, I'll certainly post progress on here. Thanks again for the answers. This is a forum that I"m glad to have found
Lonnie
The size of the layout doesn't make much difference. It is the number of locomotives you will be running at the same time. If your locomotive uses .5 amps, than you 2.3 amp power unit will handle 4 locomotives.
8star-
As a carpenter and cabinetmaker you should have no trouble with constructing your layout framework. The only concern I would have is that you may build things much more heavy duty than is necessary. I strongly urge you to gather some information about lightweight benchwork using 1x3 and 1x2 lumber formed into beams and legs. Also, if you plan to work from a flat surface, consider two-inch foam insulation board. It is plenty strong enough while being easier to run wires through, lighter than plywood and able to be scooped out for details below track level like streams.
Good luck as you embark on what will prove to be a fun endeavor.
-- D
Doneldon, you are dead on with the lighter weight wood, a lesson previously learned from a Lionel layout that I built. I built the frame work out of 2x4's with 4x4's for the legs. The primary reason I used that lumber was they were leftovers from previous jobs. Saving a bit of cash did not do my back any favors- ha ha. I'm 54 and wiser these days. I'm going to use 1x4's that you can get off the shelf at the lumber yard for the frame work, attach a 4x8 sheet of 1/4" mdf to that (which is actually 49" x 97" - a little more surface than standard paneling), and lay a 1" piece of the polystyrene foam board as the work surface for the layout.
The Lionel layout was sturdy for sure and I also built the grades with scrap lumber. In the end I realized in being efficient with material on hand wasn't such a good idea. I'm going to have to move this thing at some point when I sell it! In the end I learned I'm supporting a light weight model train, not the real thing. I'm thinking if it had a solid surface on top that one could park a small car on it.
I learned much from building that 027 layout. Styrofoam is your friend. My original plan was to move this small layout to the spare room and add on to it. I decided to go with HO scale in order to have longer consists as well as venture into the DCC world. At least the Lionel keeps my 28 month old grandson entertained while I build this new one. Ever since he was 16-18 months old he'd scream when he'd see a train. He actually sleeps with a Lionel gondola or passenger car that I gave him. I'm going to nurture this interest in him for sure. Video games, TV, and the internet rob our children of the natural creativity that God instilled in all of us.
Thanks again for the input. I'll put up some photos as I progress. It won't be the grand layouts that I've seen on here. There is an awful lot of talent on this board as well as knowledge that I can pull from.
Lonnie
Lonnie-
It sounds like you are very much on top of things. Make sure your 1/4-inch mdf is well supported underneath; some people use their cross braces flat to give a broader surface and to avoid having to drill holes for wiring to pass through. Small cleats, like 1x1 stock, can be helpful in avoiding edge sag if the top surfaces are surrounded by the frame rather than on top of it. And use only pink or blue insulation board. Regular Styrofoam (white, open cell foam) lacks the strength and is a real mess to work with.
Your oversize board opens up a possibility. If it and your styro are inside (surrounded by) your frame, you'll have 98.5"x50.5". That's large enough for 24" radius curves, a good safety space using 22" curves or using 22" curves with the whole outer loop crooked on the tabletop, which always looks better than trains running parallel to the edge of the layout.
Grandkids are the best. I truly understand the jokes about foregoing the kid part and going straight to grandchildren. I built nonelectric Thomas the Tank Engine for both of my now older grandsons, and we have two-year old twins, a boy and a girl. I will build a Thomas for him next Spring and a Victorian doll house for her. I agree that all of the electronics inhibit creativity but things like trains can encourage it.
Have fun with your projects and your grandkids.
-- D
Donaldon,
Again good sound advice from an experienced model railroader. On the styrofoam side, I had already gotten a tip from a railroader at our local train museum. I used pink on the Lionel 027 which is 1" thick and blue on this one, about 7/8" thick. That white 'beer cooler' styrofoam is a terrible product for the building trade, much less a surface area for a model train. Even the kind that is foil face on one side will break in half before you can install it on a wall.
I ended up taking some 2x6 lumber that was laying around and ripped them to 1 1/2" x 2 1/2". I was going to use 1x4 material but decided I wanted a fairly sturdy frame. I've actually built the frame to go beneath the 1/4" mdf/stryfoam so the surface area is 49" x 97" and I had some 1" pink pieces that I ripped on my tablesaw (handy to have) to the 7/8" thickness to fill the edges. Over half of one side where the filler pieces go will be covered by the incline anyway and the far end totally covered by the 'hill'. I'm doing an upper and lower level that connect via a LH & RH turnout. As I mentioned in the initial post, I bought the Dymamis Spectrum set that has a 56" x38" oval with a DCC LH turnout. I bought the track set identical to it on ebay at a good price then won a couple bids on ebay with a remote LH and RH turnout for 18" radius track. Initially I was going to use the two DCC LH turnouts to get to the upper level by turning in on one side of the lower level and return on the outside. The more I thought about the DCC, and two trains running at the same time, I figured it would be easier for me to do the switching with the remotes and I put the two DCC LH and the 'freigh yard'. (I'm not familiar with all the terminology
The grandson has a few of my Lionel cars that I either didn't need or have repair issues. I gave them to him and glue a small oval of 027 track (unpowered) on a piece of cardboard. The little fellow can get the wheels set properly on the track and couple them together (lift one above the other) he's a fast learner. This afternoon I built the table top for the new layout and when he came out to the garage and saw me gluing the styrofoam to the solid surface, he squealed and yelled 'choo-choo' He knew exactly what it's going to be. Amen on skip the kids and get the grandkids!
Goodnight all,
Lonnie
Lonnie-
Lionel is perfect for the young ones. They don't care that much about detail or prototype but they love making the trains go 'round. The trains don't have any details to break off. Their little fingers and undeveloped coordination don't get frustrated by tiny parts. And Lionel, even the plastic stuff, is much more likely to survive a fall on the basement floor than anything in HO.
My brother and I had Lionel as kids. It was mostly set up on two 4x8s in the basement but we put it around the Christmas tree some years. I can still remember putting the old lead tinsel across the tracks to make sparks and change the train's direction while our mother screamed that we were going to set the tree on fire and burn the house down. In retrospect, her point was a valid one. Dried out pine trees are almost explosively flammable.
You work fast! I wish I could get my own motivation fired up like that but, being retired, it's too easy for me to put things off until tomorrow.
-- D
-- D
You're right about pine Christmas trees. I have lived in Texas nearly all of my life and we usually buy a spruce or Douglass fir tree. Several years ago when I lived on 7 acres in the country, I took the tree down after New Year's and laid it in my garden spot and literally took a match and it pretty much ignited. That was an eye opener. Fortunately these days there are LED lights which produce no heat at all, if any.
I pretty much grew up with HO scale trains, and all on a piece of plywood in the living room. When my boys were little, I built a 4x8 HO layout for them in our garage with a tunnel but no inclines. I think it was the larger set with the passing siding at one end. There was some lumber in that table, along with the structure I made to plaster over the tunnel for a 'mountain.' I told the family that in the event of a severe storm or tornado, go down into the garage, get under that train table, and hold on...lol
I've read numerous posts on this forum regarding scenery and building hillsides and so forth using newspaper and cardboard to create forms. I've used standard plaster before but have acquired hydrocal for this new layout. I've also used a heavy drywall joint compound as well. The medium for wall patching is ok, but will crack without reinforcement.
I'm not moving as fast as you think, all I've done is get the bench top ready. Today I'll make the legs and put a little weathered deck stain on them. I'm putting locking casters on the legs so I can roll it over into a corner when I'm not working on it or using it. If all goes well in the long run, I'll use this 4x8 as the first section to extend into a horse shoe layout as time/finances go by.
I'm self-employed and my cabinet shop is in the two car garage, so I have flexibility. I've also been keeping the 2 year old grandson this week since my 2 man crew is going alright without me. When I get the table ready and lay the track, that little boy is going to go nuts. One thing he learned when I built the Lionel is the phrase 'don't touch it'. When we are running the Lionel and when my wife or anyone else approaches, he points his finger at them and says 'don't touch it' I think its more of a possessive thing in that regard ha ha
Lonnie
Quote from: Joe323 on October 07, 2013, 04:49:10 PM
Based on what you describe I think the power is adquate but you will probably want to add feeders at various points along the track to make up for the resistance that will occur the further the locomotive gets from the power source. I have a small 4 x 6 layout running DCC and have an extra feeder at the opposite end of the layout.
On the extra feeders I just realized that I'll need to get the 2 pin connector leads from the first feeder to the next and so forth. I know the feeders have a connection point on each side, which seems like a great idea someone came up with. I've looked in the Bachmann store and obviously don't know the right terminology in the search criteria. I think I have 3 feeders, maybe 4. I'm thinking I'll go from the feeder nearest the power supply and then go feeder to feeder from there. I need a little help finding what I need to do this
Thanks
Lonnie-
They're called "terminal" track sections. They are expensive but you don't need to use them.
You can use any small gauge wire (even 22- to 26-ga) for short feeders running up from a supply buss under the table. Then solder the feeders to the outsides of the rails or to the bottoms of rail joiners. You can use just about anything for the supply buss but it should be comparatively large because the purpose is not to lose power in transmission as would occur if the buss were tiny like the feeders. I use zip cord from extension cords or old lamps (16 ga stranded). It's actually cheaper in most cases to buy an extension cord and cut the ends off than it is to buy wire from the spool at a hardware store. Suitcase connectors let you tap the feeders off of the buss without having to strip or solder anything under the table.
-- D
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac359/8stargazer/HOlayout58x96x45_zpsebe0edc6.jpg) (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/8stargazer/media/HOlayout58x96x45_zpsebe0edc6.jpg.html)
Progress: Well after building a 4x8 table on casters, I decided that it wasn't going to work out the way I intended. Instead, I decided a permanent bench top utilizing a former 5x5 closet and then protrude out to 8'. I wanted to something like this in the first place but realized I couldn't get to the far back corner to even build this, much less deal with a derail issue. Then I remembered a large layout at the local train museum and came up with 'Rylan's port hole'. Rylan is my 28 month old grandson who is the one I've mentioned earlier. He is creatively named after Nolan Rylan, baseball great and president of the Texas Rangers.
Quote from: Doneldon on October 09, 2013, 04:47:29 PM
Lonnie-
They're called "terminal" track sections. They are expensive but you don't need to use them.
You can use any small gauge wire (even 22- to 26-ga) for short feeders running up from a supply buss under the table. Then solder the feeders to the outsides of the rails or to the bottoms of rail joiners. You can use just about anything for the supply buss but it should be comparatively large because the purpose is not to lose power in transmission as would occur if the buss were tiny like the feeders. I use zip cord from extension cords or old lamps (16 ga stranded). It's actually cheaper in most cases to buy an extension cord and cut the ends off than it is to buy wire from the spool at a hardware store. Suitcase connectors let you tap the feeders off of the buss without having to strip or solder anything under the table.
-- D
Thanks Donaldon. If I'm following correctly, I already have 3 terminal track sections with what I've bought. They have the 2 pin connector sockets on each side. I suppose I could solder directly to those flat pins, yes?
Lonnie-
Yes, you can. That would be a more economical route to go than purchasing expensive connecting wires with the plugs. And it's easy to cover up the electrical bits with some shrubbery or dirt.
I like your track plan. It appears to have very good operational possibilities with the two sidings and the mine spur. Mining railroads typically broke all of the rules about steep grades and tight curves so you could enter the spur from the other direction with a challenging grade which would/could only be traversed by something like a geared steamer. That would let you make your spur longer, run mine trains up to a much higher elevation than the table surface, perhaps add a second mine or use some switchbacks. Or all of the above.
You made a good decision to include the access port. An awful lot of beautiful scenery gets damaged because we lean too far over our layouts to uncouple some cars or fix a derailment.
The center of your layout has plenty of room for whatever you might want. You could put a high plains cattle ranch there, a conventional farm, an excellent yard with a small engine terminal or several industries. You can also use one of the passing sidings for an empties-in-loads-out trick. They're always fun.
-- D
D,
Hey thanks for the suggestions. This area is where I wanted to build it in the first place and when I realized that not only would I have to practically climb over the layout to the back corner to fix issues, I would have to do the same just to build the scenery. The table wasn't going to work either and that's when I remembered the access hole idea. Great solution to build as well as for me and Rylan to climb up in there and watch the trains in action. Late last night my wife and I laid the track down on the floor according to my Anyrail plan. There were a couple of glitches that I adjusted (I learned from failure on the Lionel to test out the track plan beforehand)
I had to move the uphill run further in from the edge which puts the mining siding almost above it in a couple of places. My solution is to elevate it from the 4" at the turnout up to 5 1/2" at the end. This is more than enough to clear the planned 1" to 2" rise below it. If all goes well and there's room, I will make a 'pass' on each side of the ore siding. At first I thought about building a tunnel below it then decided I'd rather have a wooden trestle bridge above.
I have the 2880 C&O steam locomotive that came with the Dynamis set which would be fitting for the ore mine. I bought a DCC Santa Fe (blue/yellow) that I'll run down on the lower level. In the long run I'll add a passing siding on the lower level between the RH Remote turnout at the top and the access port at the end. You are correct in saying that this layout even though it's small by most standards, does have many possibilities for further expansion. Once I had the main layout put together and took some dimensions from it, I experimented with the turnouts for future sidings and such. I can do several off of that long one in the center but for now, I've pretty much used all of the track I acquired and am satisfied with that.
My biggest concern was the grandson, at his young age, messing with it unsupervised. My wife came up with a great idea. She said isn't there a something like a temporary fence with a locking gate I could put up. Even better that gave me the idea to build a 42" wall on the outside and cut an old bedroom door to fit. Problem solved until he gets a little older.
The good news is that I screwed the table frame and legs so that was easy to take apart and salvage. And the blue foam board has a plastic sheeting on both sides. I removed the top for the surface and when I started taking it up, the board separated from the sheeting and popped right off. I cleaned up the mdf paneling with a large scraper and will turn it over to reuse. So other than time, no loss in material. I never was fully satisfied with a 4x8 anyway. In the long run I'm thinking I'll keep pushing that ore siding on around and upward .
You've been a great acquaintance on this site as well as others that have commented and/or answered my questions. I'm getting pretty stoked up about this and I know this little one is going to go nuts. I have him again today and we're about to build the table.
Lonnie
Lonnie-
The 4x8 has several real problems but it is nevertheless the most popular way to start in HO. In terms of access and length of run, however, an around the room layout is ideal. My recently deeded train room is about 13x14. Floating a table in the middle would give me, at best, 8x9, but running my tracks around the room (with a lift out across the door) gives me a twice-around mainline roughly 100 feet long. That means about 70 square feet on the table, less at least two access hatches, versus almost 200 square feet for the around the room at an average of two feet wide and with a small peninsula.
-- D
Doneldon,
That, my friend, is my longterm goal. I hope one day to have the 12x12 bedroom plus the 5x5x8 that I'm currently building. I decided to fill the whole 5x5 space in the former closet for future expansion. I also made the access hole a 20x24 rectangle instead of a circle
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac359/8stargazer/1381457707_zps72c47166.jpg) (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/8stargazer/media/1381457707_zps72c47166.jpg.html)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac359/8stargazer/1381457712_zpsff0bc84f.jpg) (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/8stargazer/media/1381457712_zpsff0bc84f.jpg.html)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac359/8stargazer/1381457716_zps7025bf7d.jpg) (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/8stargazer/media/1381457716_zps7025bf7d.jpg.html)
My grandson has already moved the unpowered Lionel track underneath. I think you can barely see him in the 2nd pic
FWIW, I'm currently using a basic Dynamis DCC system with 112' of track covering an area of about 16' x 6' in a dual track format with sidings and 6 turnouts. I run 3 locos all with sound and because the layout is temporary and on the floor, I have just one feeder at this stage.
It runs fine :)
Not a great pic but you get the idea.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ilvxbxqcvgt5zoi/HO_Layout.jpg
(Even with the [img] tags I can never get pics to show in the forum :(
Quote from: Bob_B on October 12, 2013, 11:24:25 PM
FWIW, I'm currently using a basic Dynamis DCC system with 112' of track covering an area of about 16' x 6' in a dual track format with sidings and 6 turnouts. I run 3 locos all with sound and because the layout is temporary and on the floor, I have just one feeder at this stage. It runs fine :)
Bob-
This is fine while you have comparatively new track and rail joiners which will "rescratch" the connections between track sections every time you set up. However, you'll start experiencing power problems sooner or later, whether you make a permanent layout or not. I do hope that you're able to build a permanent layout sooner rather than later as running on the floor leads to lots of problems over the long run. It's great that you can run three sound locos, too. I'm guessing they're all pretty new. You may have power capacity problems if you acquire any older locos, or even if you try to operate another engine.
-- D
Quote from: Doneldon on October 13, 2013, 12:27:18 AM
Bob-
..... I do hope that you're able to build a permanent layout sooner rather than later as running on the floor leads to lots of problems over the long run. It's great that you can run three sound locos, too. I'm guessing they're all pretty new. You may have power capacity problems if you acquire any older locos, or even if you try to operate another engine.
-- D
A permanent layout will never be an option for me. I'll be travelling a lot and will never be in one spot for too long and even if I do I'll be renting.
I will however be adding track feeders and possibly a booster as well if I get more locos. I intend expanding the layout with more main track as well (triple track), space allowing.